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Programming Talk / Witch Gate; by Eagle

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Osiris
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Location: Robbinsdale, MN
Posted: 24th Jul 2008 06:52
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Haha I was randomly browsing the Truespace forums and I found your website thingy! Nice stuff there.

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
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Silvester
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Posted: 24th Jul 2008 10:27
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Really, Why didn't you just stay with Torque? it looked a hell of alot better, it is slightly more complicated, but hey. You can't do everything the easy way.

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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 24th Jul 2008 12:48
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mahoney-------------------
I think they are much more involved with the development of FPSC. Actually, I think it's even written in DBPro. Either way, though, they directly develop FPSC. RC is just something that they resell, as PoD said.
--------------------------
you didt read my post as i typed it started outside of tgc they joined in later on in the beginning.
and it is completely done in dark basic.
x 10 of fpsc is done in the new darkbasic pro x10 they are working on as an replacement for dark basic pro.
and for an sample playbasic is done by another talented guy from austarlia.
http://playbasic.thegamecreators.com/
not tgc.
i think its good that they sell alot of tools and dont mind if they develop it them self.
like the original dark basic ide is programmed by an person that they lost contact with thats why there aint any updates to the ide as they dont have the source code for it.
anyway iam drooping this now.
vicky-------------
lovely screenies
cheers
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Vickie
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Posted: 25th Jul 2008 02:17
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Thank you Cliffyou are a sweety~

always~
Vickie

My Profile > http://www.caligari.com/news/news_june2006/cpcp3.html
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Seppuku Arts
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Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 1st Aug 2008 18:37
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Vickie, you make most of your models yourself don't you? Seeing you've got a lot of recognition over at Caligari - so even if you're using an engine that's point and click (I don't know how point and click it is, or how easy...I've not heard of many RC MMORPGs and you'd expect a flurry given how many want to make their own), but if those are you models (except the obvious Psionic Dwarf, Torque Ork and Torque Elf) then you've put a lot of work into it and wouldn't see a problems if you tried to claim an recognition for what you've done...maybe showing off your media in a game engine in 3D Chat is your best way? But you'd really only get comments about your media and tips perhaps from that perspective.

Though for flexibility Torque would have been a good idea, but then I'm sure you can visualise your design in RC and if you wanted to port it later to get in features RC might not give you, you might find it more rewarding and you'd be more 'accepted' in the eyes of coders...

People here may not appreciate the coding (but we're not all strictly coders), simply because it doesn't compare, but get some good level design in as well as your media and I'm sure people should be able to appreciate what you done. Creating media can take just as much work as coding and is another important part of game creation.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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geecee3
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2008 15:13 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2008 16:16
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this community was born of games programming, it brought us together, and to look at the showcase games and write them off as substandard without being a coder yourself is loonacy, until you have struggled with the code and fought your way around the inherrent dbp / gdk bugs, sat for days on end pulling your logic apart to resolve an issue that appears illogical, you dont have the first clue about why even a simple game deserves respect if it works, the fact of the matter is that making a game from code requires you to think almost totally in the abstract. its not easy, far from it. and people who try to master the code as well as the media deserve more respect than they are getting from certain members on this forum.

i'll chuck in my 2 bobs worth now.
http://members.thegamecreators.com/geecee3

peace.


oh and on a last note, graphics dont make a game, thats just what you see moving about on the screen driven by the underlying code, hyperreal and cutting edge graphics only serve to enhnce the underlying code through visual representation, nothing more. a game made with just cubes can be as enjoyable as a game with cutting edge graphics, it takes a verry narrow mind to suggest otherwise.

Ohd Chinese Ploverb say : Wise Eskimo, not eat yerrow snow.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2008 19:11 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2008 19:57
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Graphics don't make a game, no, but they're an important part as well as the coding. This community is build up of different people, not just coders - though I code and make media - it's the game making that brings us together. But certain people don't focus on the same skill - some are more dedicated to the coding, others to design and media.

Both aren't easy peasy, both require a level of thought and dedication, the right kind of thought, lots of learning and experience. I'm a coder and a modeller - as far as I can see to do well at one or the other it contains the same sort of hardwork, same sort of dedication and same sort of effort. And the reason my projects have failed is management (admittedly, I'm a poor manager) and time.


Yes, good graphics aren't necessary. Good coding isn't necessary either, those 'Nutt' games one of our community members makes has proven that both Good Graphics and good coding isn't necessary to making a fun game. But there are members of the community that will strive to perfect one, the other or both. Of course what I think makes a game fun is the design - hence people can make good games without decent coding or media capabilities.

But if you've spent a lot of time learning to do something, then apply it to a project, where you're media or code biased, then there should be no bias to which deserves the most recognition. As far as the WIP section goes, it seems difficult to say what can and can't go in there because it's dominated by coders, but luckily, there's a game design section and a 3D modelling section - so it would seem those are the appropriate places to show off those skills and projects. (For FPSC users they have a whole area and Realm Crafter has a forum on another site) Perhaps this project would have better justice in 3D chat, the media that is and any design aspects Vickie exercises she would have better justice in Game Design Theory?


Anyway:

I don't think coders, designers or modellers should be written off as substandard, at the end of the day, the gaming industry needs them and they all have their own skills that they have worked hard to get. And as far as this community goes - it's not just a group of expert coders.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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ionstream
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2008 23:45
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Quote: "oh and on a last note, graphics dont make a game, thats just what you see moving about on the screen driven by the underlying code, hyperreal and cutting edge graphics only serve to enhnce the underlying code through visual representation, nothing more. a game made with just cubes can be as enjoyable as a game with cutting edge graphics, it takes a verry narrow mind to suggest otherwise."


I'm going to go ahead and do that then, because graphics are an extremely important part of the game. The more realistic a scene is, the more engaging it is for the player, which makes it more entertaining in the games this applies in. Don't undervalue the work that an artist makes, they aren't just making good graphics to make the game look pretty, they're doing it to establish a mood that complements and enhances the design of the game. A game would have to be either really good or really bad for the graphics to have absolutely no effect on how fun it is to play.
Graphics doesn't necessarily mean high poly counts, detailed textures, or the latest shaders, it means good design. Banjo Kazooie has fantastic graphics, because it's graphic designers were able to create an extremely engaging look for it, and made do with the hardware they had in order to get what they wanted.

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KeithC
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 00:47
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When I look at games on Game Tonic, Yahoo, and other publisher's sites; I look at the screenshots (ie., the graphics). That alone is what makes me have a look at it. I doubt I'd even bother checking out a game made with a bunch of primitives. That's just the way it is, like it or not.

Like I've said before, however, I can see the point of the coders here on the point-and-click VS. the coded from scratch games. At the very least, I would venture to guess that an FPS made in DBPro would run much faster than its counterpart in FPSC (using the standard segment editor to build the level).

Maybe we should have a "showdown"?

-Keith

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 02:16
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Quote: "Don't undervalue the work that an artist makes,"


Don't undervalue Artists
Don't undervalue Coders
Don't undervalue Designers

They're all a unity and a necessity to making a game work successfully. Not everybody can be good at all of those aspects...sane people will pick only one (or one and 'designer') perfect whilst sacrificing the other. Me...you all know I'm insane, I try to cover everything and things can fall apart with the bad management. My criticisms with some games is that some game companies will sacrifice one of these elements. BioWare sacrificed stable coding for Mass Effect PC, id sacrificed good design for Doom 3 (IMO)...and with today's market I wouldn't be able to pull a mainstream game out of the hat for graphics (as it has become a main selling point)

That's probably a better way of putting my last post in a more easy to chew chunk.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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ionstream
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 02:43
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Quote: "Don't undervalue Artists
Don't undervalue Coders
Don't undervalue Designers"


I was only saying that implying that graphics mean nothing undervalues artists.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 12:26
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I was just using your quote to emphasise (rather than contradict or say anything against) that each part is valuable - lining the artist and designers right next to the coders.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Vickie
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Posted: 6th Aug 2008 02:26
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You can't have one without the other.

My Profile > http://www.caligari.com/news/news_june2006/cpcp3.html
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Phaelax
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Posted: 7th Aug 2008 11:30
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Pong was quite successful without an artist!


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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 8th Aug 2008 00:16
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How do you know it didn't? He was a master of the abstract, as they say.

Favorite Quote: Dramatized code? Code Drama!

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Vickie
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Posted: 8th Aug 2008 05:02
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You have to make 3D models to make a game like "Witch Gate", there is no way around it. Maybe Lee should make a board just for game Art and Screenshots of works in progress~

Always~
Vickie

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 8th Aug 2008 10:14 Edited at: 8th Aug 2008 10:19
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You have 3D chat for 3D models and Game Design Theory for game design...those 2 boards are your best bets.

Though for 3D chat you'd just show off the models and learn how to improve them/get ideas or in Game Design theory you'd discuss and maybe demonstrate certain design aspects if you have anything to discuss - if your game is offering something different in the world of a thousand MMORPGs, then it might be interesting to discuss the design behind that. Or if you don't have anything yet that's significant in game design, then the GDT board might be a good place to ask game design related questions - I know I'd have a few things to say about what would make an MMORPG interesting.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Vickie
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Posted: 11th Aug 2008 18:32
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I just think with everything it takes to make a game we as developers really cannot afford to be picky about who does what when it comes to development. If you really want to make a game that people are going to want to play them you have to be open to all the aspects of the development process and workflow. You cannot make a game without programming and you cannot make a game without the graphics. Even when you have the two together there are other things that you must get involved in such as marketing. Then on top off all that you still need the IT guy to set up the server side of the game and maintain them when the traffic to the server gets large. There are just so many things to consider when you are developing a video game. I don't understand why you guys go on like you do, it like the pot calling the kettle black.

Now stop hijacking my post! hehehe~

Always,
Vickie

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Vickie
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Posted: 15th Aug 2008 19:39
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I renamed the Linch model to Lich, and renamed the lizzard men.


more to come~

Always~
Vickie

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Vickie
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Posted: 15th Aug 2008 20:27
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Working on the follage~

this is really turning out nice,
More to come~
Always~
Vickie

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Vickie
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Posted: 15th Aug 2008 20:54
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Added some nice flowers~

more to come~
Always~
Vickie

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Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
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Posted: 19th Aug 2008 00:06
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very nice and colour full flowers vicky
when will you finish your homepage as it seams to be under construction?
cheers
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Vickie
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Posted: 19th Aug 2008 19:12
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Thanks Cliff~

I have now added the Human race to the game~

more to come~

Always~
Vickie

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Vickie
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Posted: 19th Aug 2008 22:10
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More flowers and the new Elf~

more to come~

Always~
Vickie

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Vickie
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Posted: 20th Aug 2008 09:05
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there is nothing like having your own pet Dragon~




more to come~

Always~
Vickie

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Vickie
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Dragons are so cool~

more to come~

Always~
Vickie

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Vickie
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I've been working with DB and with the help of friends got bump mapping to work. Just wanted to add the screen to my collection~

It's so...BeautifulI didn't know DB had the power to do this~

Always~
Vickie

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 5th Oct 2008 00:55
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Vickie, you sure had a lot to say about us until we proved that DarkBasic users could make good looking games.
I don't see, either, how you could speak for everyone using DarkBasic that we aren't having fun making games.

Your screen shots look nice, almost a level below WoW graphics. I'm sure graphics are upgradable, so that isn't a problem.

However, is it possible to edit gameplay with Realm Craftor? Can you change the combat, the walking, the camera setup? Can you change the networking code, make the data processing more efficient? Can you create your own chat system and filters? Can you add new character attributes and properties? Can you add a character creator? Can you modify that character creator for custom character setups? Can you make a weather system? How about particles? And shaders? Special effects? Can you add your own shaders and effects? Could you make it so you can have your character play guitar? What about speech? Are there voice overs for your NPC's? Is there a 3D sounds system? Is there any control over the culling? The 3D optimization? The type of terrain system used? And the file types of any model used? Can you manipulate limb by limb, vertex by vertex, of any 3D model? Can you even use memblocks? What about split screen, double screen, different screens, different character orbits, any camera manipulation?


I don't know, but it's one hell of an experience to learn how to do all this in DarkBasic Professional. And let me tell you- it may not be as easy as point, click, and drag, but it's the funnest danm thing I've ever done in my life. I don't care if I haven't made the latest Crysis, or the latest Far Cry; but if know that I have the power to, and the ability to learn how to, then I'm satisfied with my endless possibilites. What I do with them is my pleasure.



Good luck with your game,
Xenocythe

3.11 We do not tolerate posts made for the purpose of putting down another forum member, group of members, religion, our company, our staff or any of our moderators, past or present.
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Vickie
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Posted: 6th Oct 2008 20:27
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I'm glad you got that off your chest Xenocythe, sounds like it has
been building up for a while..LOL!
As far as all that other stuff, well with RC Pro you get the
source, so anything you dream up you can add just like DB pro. You
just have to be able to write the code for it. I'm not a coder so
that kind of stuff is hard for me and take a lot of time.

Have a great day!

Always~
Vickie

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ComWay Communications Corp
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Posted: 9th Oct 2008 00:17
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Hello Vickie

I purchase Realm Crafter couple month ago and IM having trouble loading the Elf and Dwarf meshes into the game. Under the Media it is only giving me Humans as a meshes and loading Elf or Dwarf meshes does not load the folders into the media folder?

So I’m wandering if I installed them wrong? I need to point to the model folder for install or if theirs is rebuild tool for Realm Crafter that need to run to load them into the editor.

If you could give me some help the would be much appreciated .

ComWay
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Vickie
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Posted: 9th Oct 2008 18:10
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Hi ComWay,
You haven't did anything wrong, you just need to tell the game that you have a new actor you want to use. When you are setting up a new actor you need to define the actor as a playable character so you can use it in the game and it will show up in the selection menu. To do that go to the "Actors" tab then just copy the Human(Fighter) actor then change the name to your own like "Elf (fighter) or something. Under the "General" tab make sure the check box "Actor is playable" is checked, then set your actor model up under the "Appearance" tab. Under the "Appearance" tab you can add the skins and meshes of your model so you will see it in the game. Make sure you have everthing for your actor model loaded up under the "Media" tab before you get to this point. You will also need to setup the animation for this model so make sure you do that to so you can assign the right animation to your model and not the default one. To set up the animation all you have to do is go to the "Animation" tab press the "make new animation set" and start filling in the animation ranges for your new model. So if you are making an Elf the make a new animation set called "Elf" then highlight it and start filling in all the ranges like "Run, walk and jump..etc" just be sure to assign this animation set to your new model under the "Actors" tab or your model will use the default human animation and not work right.

Hope that helps,
let me know if you need more help with this~

Always~
Vickie

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ComWay Communications Corp
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Posted: 10th Oct 2008 00:47
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Thanks Vickie IT work. I also notice that the modle pack did not install into the realm crafter folder modle packs so Im going to remove them and reinstall.

Thanks

ComWay
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Vickie
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Posted: 10th Oct 2008 18:24
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Hi ComWay,
Hey no problem, I look forward to seeing what you make with RC,
you should post some screenshots somewhere~

Always~
Vickie

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