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FPSC Classic Product Chat / [LOCKED] Last Stand.

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Zyro Lasting
17
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Joined: 7th Jul 2007
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Posted: 14th Jul 2007 18:19
NOTE: This may seem to be a rant/feedback post at first, but please read all the way through.

I have been trying to research ways to get started in FPSC, but there were so many things to look at, I've developed a migraine.

-FPI tuts to try to grasp the basic idea.
-New software to buy just so I can make my own models, etc.
-Video tuts which were not insanely informative.
-Googled so many times it's not funny.
-Wikipedia visits.
-Attempting to figure out how to edit what's already there.
-More...

I am at wits end. As I think about it, there are many things that have me wonder if I should be satisfied with my product...
If I were to list the Pros and Cons...:

FPSC Pros
-----------
-Simple Drag n' Drop 3d environments
-Quick level building

Cons
--------
-Although advertised as no scripting knowledge is required, but some is needed to "Make your already awesome game better", I felt the need to purchase it. Turns out I cannot even EDIT a single model, sprite, or sound without some form of script involved!
I'm stuck with dragging and dropping pre-made graphics... Not many game maker wannabes like me want to stick with that, I want to get the feeling THAT I MADE IT, not moving what I did not make around.

-Nowhere near as many features as other game making softwares. As what I'm hearing from thegamecreators in a nutshell, "If you want the other features, buy more software!"
--------------

I am NOT a satisfied customer. Before I uninstall the software, and demand a refund, I want to ask everyone a question.

What did YOU do to get started, and how did you get better?
Please include as many details as possible.

I am probably putting in more effort than I should, so I will ask this question. If I get no response, or if I do not improve, I will understand that there is much better software out there.

This is my last stand.
FredP
Retired Moderator
18
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Joined: 27th Feb 2006
Location: Indiana
Posted: 14th Jul 2007 21:09 Edited at: 14th Jul 2007 21:10
Quote: "I am NOT a satisfied customer. Before I uninstall the software, and demand a refund, I want to ask everyone a question.

What did YOU do to get started, and how did you get better?
Please include as many details as possible."


Well...
Let me address each issue.

Why should you get a refund?You get to download a free demo that works for 30 days before you buy it.Scratch that refund...you should have known after 30 days you were unhappy before you purchased FPSC.

What did I (or others like me) do to get started?
I used the search function.It will give you all of the info you need.

How did we get better?
Practice.

Honestly...after 30 days if you had no patience you should not have bought this.
Other advice is to read the manual that comes with FPSC and to download,read and use Nickydude's guide for FPSC.You will find it at the top of this forum.
FPSC is a drag and drop engine (you know...designed to drag and drop those pre-made graphics you were referring to).You can,with knowledge and practice,expand on that but I don't see how you wouldn't expect the engine to do what it is designed to do.
It is designed so anyone with a limited (or more) knowledge of game making (or even no knowledge at all) can start using FPSC and make a quick game in minutes.
If you want more out of FPSC you will have to put more into it...
Search,read,practice,experiment and have patience.

Please have mercy and use the search function.
vorconan
18
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Joined: 4th Nov 2006
Location: Wales
Posted: 14th Jul 2007 21:33
I'm agreeing with fred here.

1. If you want to edit models, get wings3d, animator, milkshape etc.

2. If you want to edit scripts, practice and post/read threads to get you going, it took me ages.

3. You don't deserve a refund since there was a trial

4. Loads of other people have been in your position too

5. Game Dev isn't supposed to be easy, deal with it


xplosys
18
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Joined: 5th Jan 2006
Playing: FPSC Multiplayer Games
Posted: 14th Jul 2007 21:34
According to your post, the program is everything it was advertised to be.

Quote: "-FPI tuts to try to grasp the basic idea."


The fpi scripting language, while limited in scope, is far and away one of the easiest to learn.

Quote: "-New software to buy just so I can make my own models, etc."


The forum has many threads with links to and information about free software.

Quote: "-Video tuts which were not insanely informative."


I assume you are talking about videos made by members, which I have found to be very well done on a limited budget.

etc, etc, etc.

It sound like you're just not ready or unwilling to take the time to learn the skills required to make a game unique. If that's the case, then you can either make quick, simple games with the included media, or look for other software, but I think you are already using the easiest, most inexpensive program available. (could be wrong)

Best.

I'm sorry, my answers are limited. You must ask the right question.

Disturbing 13
19
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Joined: 12th Apr 2005
Location: Murder Capital of the World
Posted: 14th Jul 2007 21:36 Edited at: 14th Jul 2007 21:38
Indeed.
Fred prety much summed it up.
A good thing to do is look at the examples and how they are implemented. Its not that hard. An FPE is very simple. Heck I know little to nothing about scripting, but I do know how to make my model do what I want by attatching a premade script. In any game creation system your going to have your media controlled by scripts of some sort. There's really no way around it. Do as Fred said Search and research.


TEST OF WILL
17
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Joined: 23rd May 2007
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Posted: 14th Jul 2007 21:41
Well dude you could get a refund not all games are like this engine you could go learn C++ or Other coding And we would sit here and wait for you to come crawling back to FPSC Did you bother to read no coding is required but it helps you don't need to learn to code (I recommend it ever since I did my game experience has improved) It's your fault and as FredP said download the demo I didn't buy the engine until I took a class on it and I loved it..Your loss of $50
Disturbing 13
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Location: Murder Capital of the World
Posted: 14th Jul 2007 21:45 Edited at: 14th Jul 2007 21:46
Here is another thing, ask questions. I see this is only yours second post. And your ready to give up. So your first question didnt get answered- so what? I've had questions go unanswered myself.Maybe nobody knows the answer or maybe you posted it in the wrong section. the real first thing about learning this engine is 'wanting to put forth the effort to learn it'


fallen one
18
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Joined: 7th Aug 2006
Location: My imagination!
Posted: 14th Jul 2007 21:50
If you cannot make a game is fpsc then you will find it impossible with other software, fpsc is the simplest of them all, instead of focusing on what you cannot do, focus and what you can do, make a game that you can make and think laterally.
Deathead
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Joined: 14th Oct 2006
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Posted: 14th Jul 2007 21:52
Hey isn't blender a free modelling program? And if you are going to whine about this ask how use FPSC on here!? Okay i mostly started by using prefabs in the tab menu. and then start using segments.

Black Terror
18
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Joined: 22nd Mar 2006
Location: Pulse Game Development
Posted: 14th Jul 2007 22:54
Dude. That's just sad how you are so unhappy about FPSC. I you want a better engine,expect to pay a lot more than what FPSC costs. Oh, and you will have to code and model a lot more.

And why would you get a refund? It says no coding required. It doesn't lie, no coding is required to make a game.

//// - - FURTHER SOLUTIONS - - \\\\
SELL YOUR GAMES AND MEDIA!
Thraxas
Retired Moderator
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Location: The Avenging Axe, Turai
Posted: 15th Jul 2007 01:41 Edited at: 15th Jul 2007 01:54
Quote: "What did YOU do to get started, and how did you get better?"


Just as with everything else in life... practice, practice, practice and then a little bit more practice...

If you can't make something in FPSC then there is no point in moving to another engine... Read the manual, then read Nickydude's guide...

I know a join date is not indicative of the length of time in using product but as your join date is so new it seems to me that you haven't really given enough time to learn new skills etc... Even using a simple engine like this doesn't mean that making a game will be easy...

Start simple... Just use the stock media while you learn... Plan out a simple game on paper and then make it... and FINISH making it... You may not think you have achieved anything by doing this but you'd be surprised... even making something simple will give you an insight into the way the engine works which you didn't have before...

Then release your simple game here... in between all the flames about what a noob you are just using stock media (which you shouldn't take personally) there will actually be some useful advice ... some people will give you constructive criticism...If you can't take criticism in anyway then this is not the hobby for you!... You then take that feedback and make another game... Every thing you make will make you better...

The people on this forum are generally a friendly bunch and will help you with any problems you might have but only if you are willing to help yourself first... if you have searched for a solution or tried first yourself and you still can't work something out, you will find people 100 times more willing to help than if you don't...
FredP
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Location: Indiana
Posted: 15th Jul 2007 01:53
Quote: "If you can't make something in FPSC then there is no point in moving to another engine... "


If you can't figure out FPSC then the 3D Game maker is about the only chance you've got.

Please have mercy and use the search function.
Deathead
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Posted: 15th Jul 2007 02:33
Fred has a point and that is really times 1000 basic than FPSC! You just need to get used to the interface like this.

Hope that this helps.

crispex
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Joined: 22nd Jun 2007
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Posted: 15th Jul 2007 02:34
Okay, I totaly agree with you, but there are some things you should know also.

FPSC is ideal for people who want to build the average First Person Shooter, you cannot expect to pay $50.00 for software, and make the next Halo, or Unreal. It isn't going to happan. You can script, but it dosn't go into too expansive detail. I recommend you move to a more expansive language such as DarkBasic Pro, that is what I use too. You would be more satisfied with that, because you can do ANYTHING! I do admitt that TGC want you to buy tons of software to make a simple game, but I think it's worth it, why not give it a second chance at FPSC? It wouldn't kill you!

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it was spam
Thraxas
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Posted: 15th Jul 2007 09:23
Quote: "I recommend you move to a more expansive language such as DarkBasic Pro"


If he can't do stuff in FPSC where 90% of the work is done for you, how do you expect him to cope with DBPro where you have to do the work for yourself?
Butter fingers
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Location: Mecca
Posted: 15th Jul 2007 15:18
DUde, you're a total contradiction.

YOu say you don't want to have to script or anything, and then you complain at the lack of features and customisation.

WHat?

You have to realise that the simpler you make something, the less options you can have. FPSC is immeasurably easy to use (and customise), and the game creators promise that you will never need to code is true. FPI scripts aren't code. They're really easy. I've taught kids with learning difficulties how to write FPI scripts.

You cannot possibly ask for your money back I'm affraid. Sure, FPSC will not make you the next FarCry or Fear, but it'll do what it says on the tin, and bear in mind, it's pretty old now.

I think you need to realise that you have to put the time in to get anywhere with anything, be it playing the piano, or making a game, it's gonna take practice, reading , and your gonna have to find out somethings for yourself. If you can't do it, then don't go demanding a refund from TGC, they shouldn't have to pay for your lack of motivation. If you we'ren't sure you'd like it, you shoulda got the demo.

Tom J
19
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Location: Essex, England
Posted: 15th Jul 2007 16:13
I have to agree with Butter Fingers,

You want more power and customization, but at the same time you want less scripting.

That makes you the kind of person who won't be able to cope with many game making programs that work in 3d, T3DGM? - Nope, not enough customization, originality or power. DBC/P? - Nope, that will require programming knowledge. FPSC? - Although it is probably the best bet for you - as it is relatively flexible and requires much less experience than a programming language - you're still not pleased.

Stick with Multimedia fusion or The Games Factory (2d game makers that require no programming) because 3d game development seems not to be your cup of tea.

Inspire
17
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Location: Rochester, NY
Posted: 15th Jul 2007 21:43
Okay. Here's the deal. How do you expect to make a completely custom game without learning first? The professionals don't just pop out of nowhere! They have to go to college first, etc.

I got started by downloading freebies in the Models and Media section and making games with that in combination with stock media.

How did I get better? FredP said it the best. Practice.

crispex
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Posted: 15th Jul 2007 22:17
True, practice does make better games.

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it was spam
Slayer222
17
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Location: Wherever I feel like
Posted: 15th Jul 2007 22:24
Well I had dreams like this guy once I expected to make the next quake with no code and in one month too I have moved past my stupidity now and I still find despite FPSCs limitations it is still very useful and fun. I don't blame this guy for expecting more than he got but still man, don't blame it on TGC. Maybe you should check out FPSC X10,
*Slayer_2

EOT
[img][/img]
Check it out here: http://eliteops.piczo.com/?cr=6&rfm=y
crispex
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Posted: 15th Jul 2007 22:31
To be honost, I don't make a game becasue I want to make money or impress friends, I do it because I think it's fun to make, not having to code takes the burden off of me, I do it for fun. I code in C# and DarkBasic Pro to make programs to impress and sell, but not with FPSC. I knew I wasn't going to be able to make a super FPS like quake or halo, I knew from the begaining.

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it was spam
Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Location: Sierra vista in indonesia
Posted: 15th Jul 2007 23:11 Edited at: 15th Jul 2007 23:24
Quote: "I don't blame this guy for expecting more than he got but still man, don't blame it on TGC"


Well see, that problem starts with the cover for fpsc, it's not... false advertisement or anything, but it is damn misleading, look at the cover, then try and duplicate it in fpsc. it dont work. lol
But you know, that is partly to blame tgc for. But idc i still think tgc is the best company out right now, only because their not sellouts....yet.

Heck ill even attempt to help this guy out a little with my advice


alright you know how everyone says "practice makes better games" or something like that. Dont you hate how they dont get into detail about how you should practice... well here you go heres what i did to get as good as i am now *which may not be too great, but its not too shabby*

First, Try just using segments, get the feel of how you think rooms should be built, dont make every room with just straight walls, include rounded ones ocasionally too. So it doesnt look too bland with the walls. Try and get used to making rooms that seem...not plain.
----make note: Prefabs, dont use them.

after you felt you've gotten good enough with segments, move on to i dont know, lets say...
Entities

You always need to have entities in every room of your game. regardless if you want to make a good looking game here is what you need to master.

Try and master Realistic placement...
Stack things on top of things, try and get your hands wet and make things a little dirty. debris is the fixer for most rooms that feel bland to you. a little debris goes a long way lol. also keep in mind if you put too many entites in one room then it will look cluttered and probably lag you down.
Make sure you keep most objects in game static,
1. because they blend better with lighting
2. they dont lag you half as bad

But do put a couple dynamic entites around so the player doesnt feel like the game isnt interactable at all.

After you've decided that your fine with all your entity placement

move on to lighting


the trick with lighting is taht you should use a 50-125 light range for every light, after 125 things seem...too unrealistically bright.

*for the record i use about 70-90 in my games*

but that doesnt mean you cant have like 4 lights a room. Because that is by far the best way, multiple light sources with small amounts of light emitting from them.

alright now that you know the light ranges, make sure you pick a color for your light that compliments your scenery.

EG: I make horror games, therefor i use alot of dark gloomy lights.

So now you've gotten Light range and Color done with your light, its time to place it. make sure you get it as close to the middle of the light source as possible, and make sure you get it as close to the actual light source without having the little bulb go thru the entity, if it goes thru it will mess up your lights.




Well. im done with typing now. if you need any other help just ask

*cracks knuckles from long post* lol

You'll Know When You See It.

Death has no end
FredP
Retired Moderator
18
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Posted: 15th Jul 2007 23:26
These newcomers ought be be glad they can upgrade to 1.06.Remember when all we had was v1?They would really be upset...

Please have mercy and use the search function.
Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 15th Jul 2007 23:36
Hmmm v1... the good ol` days, man i remember when we all used V1 and we were always fighting ranting on about how much tgc pissed us off and what not.

then the mod squad came around, they should be happy that they werent here before the mod squad ... such khaos lol

You'll Know When You See It.

Death has no end
Stoopid
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Location: Outside your window with a laptop.
Posted: 15th Jul 2007 23:37
Lol. Seriously.

rolfy
18
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Posted: 16th Jul 2007 00:07 Edited at: 16th Jul 2007 00:08
Quote: "I want to get the feeling THAT I MADE IT"

To do this you have to create your own media,whatever game engine you use.
I dont understand how you could expect any game creation software to do this for you.
Once agin we have someone railing against TGC for something that is not their problem,even if
you use the stock media,of which there is more than a generous amount and included in
the price of this software,your game can still be unique if you use imagination.
I think the fault lies with people having unreal expectations.

crispex
17
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Posted: 16th Jul 2007 01:35
Quote: "I think the fault lies with people having unreal expectations.
"


Yeah, I think this guy thought it was going to be a walk in the freaking park to make a good game using an engine, sorry mate, you're out of luck...forever. If you cannot make a game with FPSC, which is the easyest software to use, then you're hopeless forever.

Convertz - Help Wanted - Need C# Coders - C# Program Will Be Provided For Free - http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=110293&b=2
Slayer222
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Posted: 16th Jul 2007 03:02
Yeah well most advertising lies in some way

EOT
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Thraxas
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 16th Jul 2007 03:26
Quote: "Yeah well all advertising lies in some way"


fixed
fata error
17
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Posted: 17th Jul 2007 20:24
easyst to use the 3d gamemaker is easy but it looks like a baby has made it i must admit fpsc does have some bugs and things that could be improved but the alternative is to learn darkbasic and that is just nuts for a newbie i know how to model basicly but my software is just crap it cant export in any format but its own .opb
scripting is quite easy there are only a few comands to learn so just stop whineing youve already bought it you should look on forums before you buy to see the TRUTH

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb139/chrishind10/x10.gif

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