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Geek Culture / working on an adaptive quadtree algorithm for superior LOD terrain.

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Twisted Matrix
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2002 08:00
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Im working out the theory and concepts in BB3D but i'm hoping to later rewrite the algorithm in C++ under OpenGL. However given the proper motivaiton, ahem, i may feel so compelled to write it under DirectX and make it availible.

but anyways, is there anyone else here that is interested in advanced terrain visualization algorithms? My main driving force has been to get acceptable framerates with good looking terrains that extend al the way to the horizon, without sacraficing visual quality.

when i see good looking models with 1000 polys+ on a terrain that is so stretched that each pixel in the terrain textures takes up like 10-50 pixels of screen space, I am sad. And dont even get me started on these sad excuses for mountains.

I want real, infinite terrains that are near picture perfect. so that when somone looks over the skyline in your game they say "oohhhh" and "ahhh" instead of "So thats what shit looks like under 1000x magnification!"
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Megaman X
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2002 12:52
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U know, u probaly should not get any reply, but I will send a message for u. First, most of the peoples does not know what u talking about and most are trying to understand DBpro, and not go back to the eternal battle about BB and DB. Also, if u can code something with DirectX or OpenGL, u should go directly to those languages instead of start with BB. And to end up, no graphic cards should support an infinity terrain with such huge magnification and fast enough. If u ever can do that, infinity terrains are also uselles for most of the games. I think u wanted to hear from ur "wise" post "oohhhh" or "ahhh" but u won't, looks more like spam for me...

Rogue
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2002 15:56
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ya know this is a pointless post in most respects ... however as Rouge is right, not many people will understand or care

OpenGL & DirectX have this effect builtin (OpenGL you must actually turn it off to be able to use your own)

However this is something i have had a little experience within in recent months, and i'll be happy to explain roughly howto do this in DarkBasic (won't work in BB3D .. i don't know why )

The Basic idea is to base it directly upon the Positive Zdepth from the cameras vector.
You then rebuild the patch quad which has been arrayed to build in a different tesselation based upon the distance.

wait for a few hours and i'll finish a routine to do this in DB Enhanced
(as Blitz3D doesn't have memblocks it isn't really possible to achieve)

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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Twisted Matrix
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2002 18:54
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Blitz3D has fast access to membanks. And individual polygon creation/management is fairly fast as well...

anyways, you know what really pisses me off.
You cant say a word about Blitz3D around here but VB or C++ is fine. I dont get why people get all pissed. This is a general forum after all.

Rouge, large terrain is completly possible. There are development groups that focus entirely on making an accurate interactive roamable models of the entire world. And you couldnt be more wrong about large terrains being useless for most games. Think about mmorpg, or a go-anywhere racing/demolition game. or flight sims. or snowboarding sims. Indeed, almost any program that uses a terrain of some form could benefit from adaptive meshes.

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Twisted Matrix
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2002 18:57
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raven, This post isnt pointless. You know somthing about terrain visualization (Or you are just pretending)

either way, now two people on this forum are talking about somthing besides DB bugs for once..

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2002 19:27
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from what i've done in Blitz ... it isn't actually possible to setup the terrain quaterations fast enough and draw them using Blitz's functions you end up with lost data. Try just creating patches realtime and you'll understand - you'll end up with gaps because the sync doesn't work right for it.

The reason BB3D isn't really to be talked about here is because it is a rival product and this is an OFFICIAL product forum, however VB and C++ can be used to ENHANCE DB - last time i checked you can't develop DLLs or such within Blitz.
I think perhaps if you have a Blitz question you ask it in the blitz FORUM - i can explain howto develop terrain patch tesselation, however i'm not going to explain howto do it within Blitz.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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Twisted Matrix
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Posted: 22nd Oct 2002 20:07
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i dont beleive I asked you to explain anything to me. I asked if anyone was interested in terrain visualisation. I dont have a blitz question at all. I was just discussing terrains. And lasly, I dont give a crap if DB is "Rivaled" with microsoft. I never read anything in a liscense agreement that says by posting here I lose the constitutional right of free speech.

Anyways, if you guys can stop busting my balls for long enough, I would like to say that I think you are right raven. I havent notices any gaps because of sync problems, but I am aware that creating new surfaces may be to slow to be practical in BB. luckily, I havent spent much time programming yet. Just planning. I downloaded DevC++ with mingw and openGL today. I havent installed it yet though...

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Megaman X
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2002 00:43
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Well, I agree with Vegeta ( sorry if I pissed u b4 Vegeta ). I have also been using BB for a long and it's just not good for it.
Well, u wrote:

"I asked if anyone was interested in terrain visualisation"

Not me, there's no use for it and it's not possible to do at the moment Unless u prove me wrong
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2002 04:17
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hehee... i'm sure someone can prove you wrong
just not in BB3D thou - mwhahahaaa

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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Twisted Matrix
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2002 17:30
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Stop acting like a dumbass.

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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2002 17:59
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Wow, should this be posted a bit later on when you have some examples of it working?

Do it in DBPro or somming and you will not get flamed. Do it in BB3D and then come and say it works then you will.

These are DB forums and BB3D is not discussed hear becasue it ends up with arguments.

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2002 19:46
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well BB3D isn't discussed here because it isn't a BB3D forum ... i think thats an open-shut case myself!

:: sighs :: pitty that point never gets across.
well anyways, developing this it in DBpro is just too easi - because the 3D Vector Math is already there

i'm still umming and ahhring about releasing my mesh.lib.dba which has this all within it... perhaps just a demo i dunno

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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The Darthster
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Posted: 24th Oct 2002 01:22
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Can you get the 3d vector commands to work? I just get a 'could not understand command' error whenever I try to use them. I'm probably not setting them up properly (if at all).
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Oct 2002 19:51
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make vector3(x#,y#,z#) - 3D Point Vector, combines the value in 3D space into a single value.
using the add vector3 etc... helps you interpol 3D points based upon speed, so you can smooth out speed (basically get the computer to fill in the blanks between loops)

vector2 does the same for 2D calculations and vector4 allows an extented value (not used that and i'm pretty sure it is time based but not sure)

that should allow you to use them... i mean it doesn't really do anything that a gVec3(vMaxVec3,2) array wouldn't provide... just a place for storing places to quickly edit, oftenly as part of OOP.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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