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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Trouble with Model Pack 8 and Floors

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keithml
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Posted: 19th Jul 2007 23:09
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Hi. Maybe I am missing something, but whenever I use a model pack 8 room segment (say the wall 3 under basic 1 or something), I can't make multi-story rooms since the walls only mode still adds floors on higher levels. And the floors won't delete if they are next to walls. If I use a normal room segment (say from the stock media) I can simply choose walls only and go up a story or two, but not with the pack 8 segments.

Is there something bone headed I am doing, or is something amiss?

Keith

By the way, cool pack.
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Nickydude
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Posted: 19th Jul 2007 23:14
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Same happens to me, I ended up using 'Inside walls' as the top part of my room.


Search for "HellHouse" in Showcase.
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keithml
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Posted: 19th Jul 2007 23:17
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I wonder why it does that. Is it something misnamed in the way the model media has been created or something? Hopefully there is a fix that can be applied, since it would be cool to be able to use these textured walls like the other packs.

Keith
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keithml
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 16:31
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TRAP DOOR PROBLEMS TOO!

OK. This is getting real frustrating. While there are "workarounds" involving the inner walls, it is frustrating to use a pack that has segment problems for the floors. ESPECIALLY since one of the cool things about the pack is the trap door designs. Unfortunately, if you add a trapdoor floor overlay to a segment from this pack, you can't get rid of the floor, thus no trap door. This means more using the workarounds to get rid of the floor so the dude actually falls through.

Does somebody know how to get a hold of Rosstradamus, the creator of the pack? Its a great pack, with real potential, if this bug could just be fixed.

Keith
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Nickydude
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 18:39
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It does say in the pdf about model 8 that you have to remove the flooring before putting traps and such:

Quote: "*TIP*- Remove any previous flooring in place already before you place your new floor units (especially when using entity floors). To do this, click the right mouse button on the unit you wish to remove when you are in floor mode (F key)."



Search for "HellHouse" in Showcase.
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Ross tra damus
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 19:00
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Hello Keithml

Hi, I'm Rosstradamus and sorry I haven't been in touch until now.
You will notice that all the room segments in this pack come with their own ceiling designs which appear when you either place another room on top of the room below or by selecting the floor only (F) key and pasting a ceiling/roof(floor texture) onto a single story room. You 'can' remove all of the floor sections with the 'F' key selected but as you have discovered the ceiling units which are positioned underneath the floor textures cannot be removed when they are attached to the main walls of a room. Unfortunatly, I do not know how to fix this problem and designed the pack more on a 'room on room' basis (single levels)with ceilings & floors.This pack would not look so good if these particular ceiling panels could be removed because of the design method I used to create a sense of depth with the wall textures found on the 'room' segments.
As you have said yourself there are ways of getting around this particular problem when trying to create vast empty (multi level) rooms.
Have you downloaded the 'PDF MANUAL' for this pack which is available at the FpsCreator web site?
This manual was desined to 'Help' users of this pack with the new kind of entities such as the 'Trap Floors'.
The problem you are having with the 'Trap floors' is easy to remedy. The Trap floors are not 'overlays', they are segments, so all you have to do to place one is to remove an existing floor segment with 'F'key and then place the desired 'Trap' floor,using the 'B' key for alignment, in its place. The new floor based segments in this pack are best used at least 'one' space away from a rooms walls because of the above talked about subject.
I hope this has explained things OK but I do suggest you give the 'PDF' a read through as this would help you overcome future problems.
I will also try to be more available on the Forum from now on and if there are any more problems I will do my best to sort things out.


Good Luck
Rosstradamus
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keithml
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 20:08
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Nickydude, thanks for helping here. I love your tip PDF, its indispensible.

I realize you have to remove the floors. The problem is if you used Model 8 segments, you can't remove the floors. You can't paint with "walls only" or remove the flooring using a right click with Model Pack 8 segments if there is an adjacent wall. I would consider this a BUG that needs to be fixed, if thats the right terminology when referring to models.

Note:
I am hoping that I won't be limited to only using the "inner walls" pieces as a workaround. This should be correctable. I think "Official Model Packs" should all work correctly in the editor.

-- The forum is really loading slow for me today, as in minutes per page...

Thanks,
Keith
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cram
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 22:50 Edited at: 20th Jul 2007 22:51
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Still a another problem some vloortraps tremble if you go in the room
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Ross tra damus
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 23:13
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Hello Keithml

I havn't used the forum much and my messages at the moment are coming in very slow, so could you bare with me on this for now.

Additional Information

I made this 'pack' and not the GameCreators, therefor, you will find some differences in the way & use of level construction with this particular pack. In the previous packs, when using the 'walls only' function you were limited to the 'room' wall textures which also could not carry over transparency for various reasons. The only way you could get workable transparency, in any way, using the 'walls only' function was by adding windows or door entities to these singular walls. As we know, entities take up a lot of memory and can cause slowdown if over used. This led me to creating a seperate selection of 'Inner wall' segments, some of which you will have noticed have got perfect working transparecy and most of which have totally different textures on them compared with the 'room' segments. These 'Inner wall' segments should give you more variety when constructing 'Inner based rooms' plus they can be linked to the many 'corner' segments found in this pack, giving you many new options on Inner room design.
You may have 'lost' the classic 'Wall Only' function but I believe you have 'gained' a new way and look for Inner room construction which I personaly find easier to use and gives me great results.
Other Inner wall segments can be used from other rooms, so you are not so limited in choice.
I must thank Nickydude for his attention on the PDF matter and strongly suggest that you read this manual in order to find out the best use of any of the 'new' features in my pack. I am sorry you are not so happy about this issue but with a bit of time I hope you will see some of the benefits of my style of pack.
I do hope to stay in touch and I hope I have explained things clearly.
Best of luck
Rosstradamus
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keithml
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Posted: 21st Jul 2007 00:40
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Thanks for responding, I have read your PDF. In fact, as an odd-ball instructions first kind of guy, I read it before I used your pack. I understand the usage. By the way, it is nice to see such a thoroughly documented PDF instruction set for a pack. THANKS!

I am not a model expert on FPS creator, so bear with me. But I do know DBPro and all. Technically, why can I not delete the floors in your model segments using the right click in floor only mode? This seems to be a naming problem or something.

Keith
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Ross tra damus
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Posted: 21st Jul 2007 00:55
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Hello Cram

First of all, have you downloaded the PDF manual which is related to this pack? If not, I strongly advise on doing so and looking at the pages relating to the 'Floor Traps'.
Did you remove any floor segments before placing your floor trap? If not, you should do this because the new Floor Trap segments are not 'overlays' and should be placed in empty area's. Also, did you aligne the Floor Trap properly using the 'B' key on your keyboard. I have found that by pressing the 'B' key twice, will aligne the Floor Trap perfectly by snapping it into place.
I have run many many tests on these kind of 'entity' segments and have had no problems at all, if the manual instructions are followed correctly.
There will always be 'teething problems' with any new methods of segment & entity designe.
If this has not helped could you please explain the problem in maybe more detail, in order for me to help you further on this issue.
I hope I have helped you resolve this issue.
Keep in touch

Rosstradamus
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keithml
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Posted: 21st Jul 2007 01:33
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Ross,

I just noticed there was another post from you further up the page. You must be considered a new user on the forum, meaning your posts show up late. I wasn't looking for a new post further up the page. I read through your post there now, so my previous post may not make full sense since you said:

Quote: "Unfortunatly, I do not know how to fix this problem and designed the pack more on a 'room on room' basis (single levels)with ceilings & floors."


Thus asking you why makes me look like kind of mean

In any case, maybe someone else may know what the problem is. Since the other model packs work correctly, I would think this problem would be resolvable by the appropriate person.

Keith
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Ross tra damus
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Posted: 21st Jul 2007 01:45
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Hello Keithml

Believe it or not, I have little to no programing or modeling knowledge at all. The main room segments were put together in the 'Signs' program, hence you now have ceilings in all rooms. If you take a closer look when trying to delete the formentioned floor segments by using the right click method, you will notice that you 'CAN' remove the actual floor textures and ceiling textures from most of the room but it does leave the ceiling texture 'only' attached to the main rooms walls. I have tried many tests with the 'FPS'files to try and stop this but had ended up without a solution to this problem.
This left me with the choice of having rooms with ceiling textures or having rooms without the ceiling textures. I have never liked the previous method of having the floor texture replicated as the ceiling to a room because of the restrictions it causes on room designe. I chose to use the ceilings with my rooms because I had not intended to make a pack with the low,mid & top kind of sections which FpsCreator were using before. I have to agree with you it does restrict you in some methods of building designe but I have designed all the other segments & entities to work in harmony with the ceiling styled rooms. By having the ceiling rooms I was given the chance to create some new kind of things which look fantastic if used correctly including the Inner wall segments.
I don't know if FpsCreator have released a pack with rooms which contain ceiling textures as well as floor textures? I will try to get to the bottom of this problem but in the meantime, all I can ask of you is to work around this until a solution is discovered.
I do hope you find some use for the rest of the pack.
Stay in touch

Rosstradamus
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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 21st Jul 2007 19:23
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All

Firstly a big thanks and congratulations to Ross tra damus for creating and releasing this pack. It's definately a big consolation after model pack 7 and brings me back to a comment I made in one of the mp7 threads that TGC should really keep us informed about this kind of thing.

Secondly, I'm a bit disappointed that a couple of people have complained that some of the segments don't work exactly to their specifications when so much has been delivered here.

The template files included which allow us to develop our own segments and entities with the techniques used and all the great textures should be enough for anyone to be content with.

It took me all of a few minutes to make the necessary adjustments to the content in order to make multi tiered rooms. If you want to do something which the content hasn't been designed to do, take a few minutes of your own time to fix it yourself. That way you actually learn something which will make you a better FPSC developer.

We all know that certain aspects of FPSC don't always work in the intuitive way in which we'd like them to but there are work arounds which we all use to get around these problems.

I think the techniques used here have really taken interior level design up a level and am very grateful that I'll be able to use them in my future development.

Screenshot of 2 tier room segment attached

Well done ross tra damus

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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 21st Jul 2007 19:23
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Screenshot of 3 tier room segment

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xplosys
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Posted: 21st Jul 2007 19:39
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Nomad Soul,

Thanks for that condescending and self praising post which did yourself much good I suppose. Your time would have been better spent actually explaining what you did. You are obviously Master of FPSC and we peons are not worthy of the info, but it sure did make you look better and smarter than the others who have asked what the difference between these and other segments are. Good job, and screenshots are nice.

Best.

I'm sorry, my answers are limited. You must ask the right question.

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Leaning Objects To The Side
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Posted: 1st Aug 2007 23:07
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Ross tra damus, your model pack is just AWESOME!! I hope when or if you do release another model pack... I will buy 4 sure. Great Job!



Sueme
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crispex
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Posted: 1st Aug 2007 23:58
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Sooo...have we reached an agreement that model pack 8 is a bad investment?


Not a Vista user, but a Vista Theme user!
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Leaning Objects To The Side
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2007 01:30
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crispex no way model pack 8 is an AWESOME pack!! do you mean model pack 7?
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Uthink
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2007 01:47
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Sounds like the consensus is that model packs should have full inter-changeability with their segments. Why should we have less functionality? That's like getting an OS upgrade and losing the ability to print.

I understand the argument about things going together because they're designed that was aesthetically. But the problem is, if you can't change things around (customize) then your room or level will look just like everyone else's. Which does not make for a good game.

Great pack, just give us the same functionality and compatibility of previous packs.
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crispex
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2007 03:54
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I'm not the egyption style type of person.


Not a Vista user, but a Vista Theme user!
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