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3 Dimensional Chat / High Poly Models, or High Resolution Textures+Bumpmap?

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 6th Aug 2007 22:11
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In my book, 2000 polys+ is a high poly model for DBPro.

So what looks better, and saves more FPS?

High Poly Models, or High Resolution Textures+Bumpmap?


I think for my MMO I'm gonna go for medium resolution with bumpmap, but for certain objects its just gonna be medium poly model+medium resolution texture and no bumpmap.

For example, my stock character is 1294 polys, and has a 512by512 UV map texture, and no bump map. Is this efficient for an MMO, as by which many of these will be running around the screen?

So what do you guys think?


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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 6th Aug 2007 22:30
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Taken from a site

"Ultimately a normal map is meant to display 3d information - you take a low polygon-count model, apply your normal map, and voila, you get something that LOOKs a lot higher-poly.

Making low poly look high poly is the reason for normal maps! It's a technology geared towards real-time rendering (ie, games), rather than high-resolution rendering."

So, just a guess, I'd go with the low poly, high res texture. That doesn't mean reduce your poly count down to something that makes your characters or scenes blocky, but you certainly turn off smoothing and other things like that to lower poly counts and raise fps.
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hessiess
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Posted: 6th Aug 2007 22:35 Edited at: 6th Aug 2007 22:40
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Quote: "Making low poly look high poly is the reason for normal maps! It's a technology geared towards real-time rendering (ie, games), rather than high-resolution rendering.""


thats wrong, i do alot of high poly subserf modaling. normal maps are pritimutch alwase used.

2000 polys is about normal for a acseptoble carictor, but dbp is not that bad, and can handle meny more polys, curves eat polys, organics are imposable to do well with less than 3/4 k(the head modal on my avatar is 30K ish polys!)

if you have an eye for detail like mine, normal maps just do not work for simulating large folds/dents, although thay are good for sckin cresses. parallax mapping is mutch more efective

learn blender, you will never regret it.

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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 6th Aug 2007 22:44
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"acseptoble carictor"

woah... let me translate. Acceptable Character. =] It's alright, I use spell check more than I let on, haha. =]

Isn't that what the quote is saying? Normal maps are always used? Or are you saying normal maps are always used, low or high poly? I guess the quote is a little vague on it's meaning there. What are normal maps anyway? The texture? I'm a complete noob here too.
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SamHH
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Posted: 6th Aug 2007 23:18 Edited at: 6th Aug 2007 23:24
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if its an mmo and the characters should be really low poly.
But the point you bring i would like to know as well, which is better a high poly model or a low poly with a normal map, which would lag more?
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hessiess
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Posted: 6th Aug 2007 23:21
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thay are nerly alwase used, on lo or high poly modles, exept for modles in the distance, or inimportant things. normal maps are a grayscale image(bump maps) or a funny colerd iamge that is hard to discribe(normal maps) all thay actualy do is modify the face normals, witch changes the way the light afects the serfice creating a ilosion of detail

[href=http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Manual/Bump_and_Normal_Maps][href=null]
Quote: " * Bump maps are textures that store an intensity, the relative height of pixels from the viewpoint of the camera. The pixels seem to be moved by the required distance in the direction of the face normals. You may either use greyscale pictures or the intensity values of a RGB-Texture (including images).
* Normal maps are images that store a direction, the direction of normals directly in the RGB values of an image. They are much more accurate, as rather than only simulating the pixel being away from the face along a line, they can simulate that pixel being moved at any direction, in an arbitrary way. The drawbacks to normal maps are that unlike bump maps, which can easily be painted by hand, normal haps usually have to be generated in some way, often from higher resolution geometry than the geometry you're applying the map to. "
[/href][/href]

learn blender, you will never regret it.

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RUCCUS
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Posted: 7th Aug 2007 00:50
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Quote: "organics are imposable to do well with less than 3/4 k"


I've gotta disagree there, I've seen / modelled myself a fair amount of organic humans around 1.5k each.


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Deathead
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Posted: 7th Aug 2007 13:04
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Hessiess When did people call models, modles?
I would go for bumpMaps and stuff because high poly models for one just for posing animations etc. whereas low-poly +Highres + Bumpmap make it look better.

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SimSmall
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Posted: 7th Aug 2007 14:41
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High poly gives a more accurate shape, but also makes animation harder, especially for organics


A well optimised, low poly object, with a sharp hi-res texture and a bump map. Will ultimately looks better than a high poly objects, particularly when it is animating (even more so if it's a character).

Saying this I've had no success with UV mapping, and have no clue how to create a bump map.
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hessiess
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Posted: 7th Aug 2007 16:57
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Quote: "and have no clue how to create a bump map."


you make a lo poly model, then uv unrap it, save as lo poly version, then apply subserf and sculpt it, then use a app to convert the high poly mesh into a normal map for the lo poly object.

'high poly' is more often than not just a lo poly frame with subdivision serfises. with fan bones, shape keys etc can be animated pretty esaly and more realisticly. but rigging it is pritty time consuming.

learn blender, you will never regret it.

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 7th Aug 2007 18:38
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I've really gotta learn how to bumpmap

So I've got a low poly character, with a 512by512 UV Map. Are there any programs or tutorials out there that can get me started with UV mapping?


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hessiess
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Posted: 7th Aug 2007 19:55 Edited at: 7th Aug 2007 19:57
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blender, zbrush, mudbox all have sculpting tools for making the high poly, then theres a free app by nvidia for baking it to a uv texture.(i suck at sculpting)

uv mapping depends entialy on the app you are using

learn blender, you will never regret it.

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 7th Aug 2007 20:14
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Sorry, I meant getting me started with making bump maps with a UV map.

I'll look into mudbox, i've seen work from it before, and it looks great. Thanks.


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BiggAdd
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Posted: 7th Aug 2007 22:09
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I don't think you should use normal mapping for a MMO in dark basic. Huge waste of an FPS when good texturing will suffice.

Normal mapping, if not done correctly can look really really bad! Even in oblivion it looks pretty rubbish on characters etc.
Just stick with the modeling and texturing, program the engine. Then you can decide whether or not to add these things later.

Sig removed by BiggAdd because he is everywhere.
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Xenocythe
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Posted: 7th Aug 2007 22:33
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I guess your right biggadd. I'll look into bump mapping later.

And don't worry, im following the 'engine before graphics' routine completely.


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hessiess
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Posted: 7th Aug 2007 22:55
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Quote: "I don't think you should use normal mapping for a MMO in dark basic. Huge waste of an FPS when good texturing will suffice."


perfectly true, but there nothing wrong with learning how to make them

learn blender, you will never regret it.

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