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3 Dimensional Chat / New Modeller seeks advice

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genex
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Posted: 14th Aug 2007 23:16 Edited at: 14th Aug 2007 23:21
Hi everyone, im currently leading / modelling / and site designer for a new game currently in development. SuperMoto Masters a motorbike racing game if you dont know what supermoto involves :p anyways..

I have only been modelling a couple of months and have started in gmax, because i can export to 3ds max and then still put into our game engine we are using [dbpro]

http://www.supermoto-masters.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3

There is a link to all the models i have so far done, i firstly need advice on how do i sort out sizing of models and knowing how big to do them etc? Scale that is..

Anything else i should be looking out for and i need some better modelling skills as mine are limited which thus limits the shapes i can make if you look at my models you will see...

Thanks for reading and hopefully we can all be of help to each other

[url]www.SuperMoto-Masters.com[/url]
Deathead
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Posted: 14th Aug 2007 23:55
They are too High poly. Or they have been smoothed

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th Aug 2007 01:27 Edited at: 15th Aug 2007 01:28
Haven't got the time to give you a full direction but.

You are making for a game. Unfortunately game engines can only render a certain amount of polygons per frame per second at a reasonable speed. The poly polygons the game renderer has to render, the slower it'll run. With Dark Basic pro, the maximum you'll probably want on screen are 50,000 polygons. So what that means is you'll need to seriously reconsider the 'smoothing' and polygon counts of your objects. My advice would be, never to use smoothing/subdivision with game media, there are other ways to make things look good with out them being smooth as a baby's bum. That could also mean going down on detail. I'd look at the wireframes of game media and compare them to your own and you'll find yours are much more dense than any game media.

As for the quality of the work, it's a good start and welcome to the world of 3D modelling. If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

[EDIT]

If they help, I've got some 'all round' 3D modelling tutorials (I say 'all round' because they will be of use when using almost any 3D application on the market)
http://seppuku-arts.koetsuaboshi.net/?q=node/5

Hakuna Matata
tatts
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Location: Ontario,Canada
Posted: 15th Aug 2007 01:28
I'd hate to burst your bubble. nice models but as far as I know gmax only saves as .max and does not export .3ds and even if it did, 3ds is a bad format for DBPro unless your models are very low poly. higher end models tend to crash dbpro. beside high poly models are better for rendering than for games. try sticking to lower polys and use a format that is better for dbpro like directx or .dbo itself.

WindowsXP/SP2, Pentium 4 2.66 GHz, 1GB DDR Ram, Geforce 6600 256MB
Zaibatsu
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Location: Lost in Thought
Posted: 15th Aug 2007 03:25
[email]gmax only saves as .max and does not export .3ds and even if it did, 3ds is a bad format for DBPro unless your models are very low poly.[/email]

isn't there also some kind of restriction on what you can use Gmax for anyways?

"I admire its purity, a survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality"

JimB
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Posted: 15th Aug 2007 09:06 Edited at: 15th Aug 2007 09:24
There were some scripts floating around once that allowed exporting from Gmax to a few other formats,these of course were not legal nor was using Gmax for anything other than modding the supported games.
I think you might be better off using the XSI Modtool in the post by Redmotion the advantage is that it can export to DirectX amongst others but again it is for non commercial use and only modding as far as I am aware.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=112244&b=3
genex
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Posted: 15th Aug 2007 19:58
hey guys! I managed to use tempest script to export as an md3 and then used 3d exploration to import the md3 into 3dsmax bobs your uncle

Anyways, i wont be modelling in gmax anymore so moving onto 3dsmax when i can afford it in a few weeks. Thanks for your replies! Even negative stuff is helping me as im so new to this.

So these polygons i kind of understand what they are about but how do i keep to a minimum for game but still keep good models? is it all to do with amount of sides etc something has or polygons?

Also i can scale in 3d world studio which means that sorts out the scale problem i had! Unless its better to get the scale correct while modelling? How would i go about this?

Also any other tuips i would love to hear!

thanks guys

[url]www.SuperMoto-Masters.com[/url]
genex
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Posted: 16th Aug 2007 02:00
or will i be better off using another program to model with? thanks

[url]www.SuperMoto-Masters.com[/url]
hessiess
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Location: pc!
Posted: 16th Aug 2007 09:49
dbp can run 100k polys easy

learn blender, you will never regret it.

Van B
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Posted: 16th Aug 2007 11:11
50-100k poly's is a pretty realistic limit for DBPro if you need things to stay smooth.

A terrain system might need about 20,000 polygons, so once you consider the polygon count on characters you could figure out how much you have to spend.

For a first person game, I'd say that 12 segment cylinders is a good detail level on say, a lamp post that would get real close to the camera. If it's a third person view, then 8 segments or even less is good. For first person shooters I'd suggest about 1000-1500 polys per character, try and keep this down as much as possible if you want a lot of enemies on screen.

Some people will bawk at only 1500 polygons, but that's a realistic count once you put an actual game in there.

We're going down... in a spiral to the ground...
Raven
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Posted: 16th Aug 2007 12:05
GeForce FX/5 5200 or Radeon 9200 - 350,000 Polygons / Scene (at 60fps) Textured & Lit. You can get roughly double by dropping the game to 30fps, although doing this in DBP will need some decent programming to keep the feel of the game smooth.

Also if you want to use Shader, expect that count to drop quite dramatically. You'll be lucky to push 200,000 Polygons / Scene.

This said that those cards are quite low (basically the most entry level Shader 2 DirectX9.0 cards you can get).

GeForce 6200 or Radeon X300 (or newer) - 1.2million Polygons / Scene (at 60fps) Texture & Lit : 620,000 Polygons / Scene Shaded.
These are currently what are considered budget cards, but remarkably is the performance difference even up to current gen bottom end is roughly the same. You'll gain about 50-100,000 polygons per scene.

Mind you these specs for the cards are for fairly well optimised DirectX9 engines using Visual C++ on Windows XP. On Vista you can expect about 10-15% performance drop, and DBP itself also isn't exactly an optimised engine. I'd say that most of the time, you can roughly half performance for DBP (which yeah it's that BAAAD).

For those wondering where those stats came from, I recently did a very extensive test with as many cards as I was able to get my hands on running on fairly similar spec (between AGP & PCI-E) on my DirectX9 "Core" Engine. I have a full list of what each card can do from the FX-Series up to the latest DirectX 10 cards.

You think it's an impressive jump in speed for the budget cards, thing about this:

FX 5900 Ultra - 4million Poly/Scene
8800 Ultra - 26million Poly/Scene

9800 XT - 4.3million Poly/Scene
HD 2900 XTX - 31million Poly/Scene (in Crossfire 53million)

that's in 4 short years since the FX-Series was released. Certainly something to think about heh

GatorHex
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Location: Gunchester, UK
Posted: 16th Aug 2007 18:14 Edited at: 16th Aug 2007 18:24
If you realy want to know how many polys/objects you graphics card can handle you could use my tool here..

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=101716&b=5

Quote: "moving onto 3dsmax when i can afford it in a few weeks."
$3000ish! I'd rather buy Milkshape for about $40 or Blender for $0

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
lava man
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Posted: 16th Aug 2007 18:37
i have 3ds max and it is great i think it is worth every penny and
thos models look great to hihg poly like everyone else said but if you want there are poly reduction softwares out there and texture will give back detail and also bump mapping so thos are a few things you could do like a 1024 by 1024 jpeg really gives a lot of detail but it depends on your computer and if it can handel high res textures so there are a lot of options i would play around and see witch method works best for you and your game.

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