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Geek Culture / What should I do?

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andrew11
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Posted: 6th Jun 2003 05:33 Edited at: 6th Jun 2003 05:35
I've got this friend who isn't exactly the best at computers. He dosen't even have one. That's ok, but he wants to be a game developer. And who's computer does he have to use? Mine. I mean tell me what to do while he sits on the couch. He wants to make a "Mortal Kombat 2 kinda game, but in 3D with more characters and fatalities" (his words) and he expects me to do it in a few days. He dosen't have a clue. He tells me to draw a character. So I open my Photoshop 7 and start to draw. "I didn't know it was going to be like that", he says, "Why can't you just tell it what kind of game you want and it makes it?". I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but it dosen't work like that. After hours of work, I have an unanimated, joke of a human model (I can't model humans for my life), textured with a picture of some MK character, moving around on a untextured plain. "Can't you make it more realistic?". I mean what does he expect of me? And when he's leaving he goes "I'm glad we have the summer off. We can work on it every day. I'll stay over for a few weeks." all summer! What should I do? I can't tell him that we can't do it because I'm too nice, but I can't let it take up my whole summer. I have my own projects to do and my own free time.

"Food is güd!" -Dean
"All programmers are playwrites and all computers are lousy actors" -Anon
Click Here!!!
Eric T
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Location: My location is where I am at this time.
Posted: 6th Jun 2003 06:06
get a new freind... i suggest one on the forums lol

I always win don't you know that?
Programming RPG games in Dark Basic
Since 1999.
andrew11
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Posted: 6th Jun 2003 06:16
lol Do you want to be my friend?

He's a good friend and all, but is a little pushy, especially when it comes to computers.

"Food is güd!" -Dean
"All programmers are playwrites and all computers are lousy actors" -Anon
Click Here!!!
Kangaroo2
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 6th Jun 2003 07:31
OOooh I've been there

Next time he comes over, sit him in the seat and tell him that if you're going to make this game together, he has to learnt to code, so that it'll be fair. Now sit him in front of Dark Basic for a few hours and don't help him. Trust me, by the sound of it, he'll loose interest very quickly

Either that or download a copy of Mortal Kombat 4 from Kazaa and tell him you madre it while he was at home. Let him play for an hour or so, then tell him you have to do your homework and send the sucker home

Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes, They got them hoppy legs & twitchy little noses,
And what's with all the carrots? What do they need such good eyesight for anyway?
Solidz Snake
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Posted: 6th Jun 2003 08:44
pushy friend, yup been there too.

But i always manage to avoid them into gettin *me* do all the works.
From wat i've seen, u were quite pissed off with him in the first post, and went soft when u hear replies! lol!

"friend" is a very dangerous word nowadays..

Snake? What happened? Snake? Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!!! - Colonel Roy Campbell

Dazzag
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Posted: 6th Jun 2003 10:30
I wouldn't put him in front of DB. He might work out how to load a tutorial or something. And a lot of DB code looks mighty easy for what it does.

I would plonk him in front of several thousand lines of C++ code. Ideally all the code would do is clear the screen and draw a couple of simple lines on the screen with a moving "Hello World". You get the idea.

Other than that, I'd tell him to meet you at a "game programmers convention", and give him the address of a local biker bar. You might want to raise the stakes and inform him that everyone there is really into Star Trek, so try and wear something like a Trekkie T-shirt, or even better some Vulcan ears or full Klingon getup. Wouldn't give him much of a chance, you can claim you got the address wrong, and have a happy summer while he tries to get his legs working again in rehab. To seal the deal though you may want to buy him an "Andrew11 Software House" T-shirt (and one for you to look real) for your new company. Make sure though that there is an invisible heat thingy on the back that spells "All bikers are homos" when things get hot. Heh.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 6th Jun 2003 10:44
lol

Do you have any friends Dazzang? I mean, ones that have the ability to move.

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
Dazzag
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Posted: 6th Jun 2003 11:00
Yeah sure. But it tends to be in spasms with lots of dribbling.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Chaos
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 6th Jun 2003 22:39
i dont have that pproblem i am just one of those people who dont socialise.

Dark worlds are all around us.Open your eyes and you will see.You are still half asleep
http:\\destined.to/ukchaos
andrew11
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Posted: 6th Jun 2003 23:30
"sit him in front of Dark Basic for a few hours and don't help him."

I don't exactly think that that is a good idea. I can just see him clicking on "Delete" on my DBP projects folder. Or if he sees an ad, "Yeah!!! I won $100,000,000! I'll click just for fun!" Hey... why wont this ad close?"

"Food is güd!" -Dean
"All programmers are playwrites and all computers are lousy actors" -Anon
Click Here!!!
Dazzag
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Posted: 7th Jun 2003 02:24
Or kill him. Would be best.

Infact I remember from one of my lectures at Uni that there is approx. 1 death a year due to electric shock from a computer keyboard. Get him to test your game once you have hooked your keyboard up to, say, a car battery. Once his hair has been put out then you can settle back to another codetastic summer.

A cheaper way (in respect to going to jail) is to get hold of a copy of an old 3D PC fighting game (that Robot one would do) and tell him you sweated blood to get the game made during the weekend. If you can hack the front screen then all the better (Andrew11 fighter pro 3D 2 for example would be good). Then tell him it is his job to sell the thing since he can't to **** all else to help. Once he gets clear (maybe) of all the copyright problems then it will be winter, so no probs.

Actually that isn't a bad idea anyhow. Tell him that before you do any coding then he will have to sell the game to publishers. You are confident that you can code the next big thing and expect at least a "Codemasters" to be signing on the dotted line with a big cheque before even seeing a line of code. After all, you aren't going to do all the work for him to get 50%. That should shut him up. And hell, he may be a fantastic genius of a salesman and get you the deal. At which point cash the cheque and leave the country.

See. People don't always have to die or be messed up by my sound advise. I should have been a shrink or something.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
indi
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Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 7th Jun 2003 07:33
trueblue friend or an associate?

Ian T
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Posted: 7th Jun 2003 07:44
Sit him down and have a long, long talk. Explain the extremely complex calculations a computer goes through to simply render a 3d polygon. Explain the intricices of texture mapping. Then go off and say lots of nonsense about how if you don't code it right the triple buffers will overflow, and DirectDraw is still in an unstable state, how vertices have a tendancy to 'jump' unless you LockDown the system with Closed GL, how mathematical operations sap Virtual SETI MegaBit RUST and how 3d artwork needs to have all of its Direct Normals calculated in a preproceser state which tends to take many days of grueling work.

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
The Wendigo
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Location: A hole near the base of a tree in the US
Posted: 7th Jun 2003 07:50 Edited at: 7th Jun 2003 07:55
Dazzag, you should write a book... or rather, could you write a book for me and I can sell it for 100% of the profits mysteriously leaving a large whitout mark on your name and replacing it with mine? Oh, that won't work? "I didn't know it was going to be like that"

I found the edit button!

Current Projects: mini BSP maker 50%, Height Mapper with many features 75%, FPS/RTT Nameless at the moment 15%
Dazzag
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Posted: 7th Jun 2003 23:03
I did once. I used to have accountancy lectures, and I found it was the first lectures I actually fell asleep in (then statistics years later). Loud snoring in class can be a bit much for some people, esp. when I start to dribble. So I wrote a book. Around 100 pages of A4 it was, about a bloke called Norman Norman Normal (very boring parents). I thought is was genius at the time (along with an effort with a friend about a ficticious Irish poet called Shamus something or other who died in 1970ish). Then I read it again when I was about 23. It was really crap. I mean divebomb.

Moral of this story is don't fall asleep during accountancy and write crap books. Fall asleep during Cobol programming and earn a fortune as an accountant.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Dazzag
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Posted: 7th Jun 2003 23:07
One poem I remember from Shamus:-

The Dragonlord
--------------
The Dragonlord looked out apon his world,
master of all Dragons in the land.
A shame then there are no bloody Dragons anywhere.
--------------
Written by Shamus Seamus O'Reilly (or something like that) in 1961, during his "Dragon" patch. 5 more years of "no dragons" poems followed, including the infamous "Really no f**king dragons anywhere!" written in 1964, which won Shamus the coverted Shatner prize in 1965.

You get the idea.....

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Dazzag
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Posted: 7th Jun 2003 23:10
Quote: "Sit him down and have a long, long talk."


Yes. But about how much he likes his parents, and how you like them too. But if you have to do too much programming then you don't know how you can protect them from evil. And if you are programming then you can't take your pills. And if you can't take your pills then you don't know what you could do. And that you really like his girlfriend and/or sister. And that you could do with a pill/dart right now actually.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Joeyjoejoe Shabadoo
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Posted: 9th Jun 2003 16:45
Since he is probably your only freind make the game for him or you will be lonely.

Shadow
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Posted: 9th Jun 2003 18:59
Quote: "Since he is probably your only freind make the game for him or you will be lonely."


And you must have lots of friends. That's why you're spending your free time insulting people you've never met over the internet.
denki
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Posted: 9th Jun 2003 21:52
Be straight with him, it'll do more good than bad. If he's truly your friend he'll understand...

(Well ... it SOUNDED smart)

[url][/url]
andrew11
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Posted: 10th Jun 2003 06:57
Joeyjoejoe Shabadoo, look who's talking.

denki, yes, yes it did...

"Food is güd!" -Dean
"All programmers are playwrites and all computers are lousy actors" -Anon
Click Here!!!
Arrow
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Posted: 10th Jun 2003 10:20
Ok, here's an idea, tell him you can do all the coding, but he has to get all the media (sounds, models, music).

Teenage Male Geek + Female Remotly Intersted in Common Geek Activities = Teenage Male Jackass
Dazzag
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Posted: 10th Jun 2003 10:26
Nah, he will come back with ripped MK models from some dodgy internet site.

Instead take him out to the country and nail his hands to a tree or something. Once they eventually find his rotting corpse and arrest you, basically the summer will be over. And you will be back out in 5-10 for good behaviour, ready once again to kill your mate... do some coding. I meant do some coding....

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Joeyjoejoe Shabadoo
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Posted: 10th Jun 2003 16:58
Kill him sounds the best.

Mentor
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Posted: 10th Jun 2003 17:53
just tell him you need to know c,c++ and assembler to code commercial quality games and show him some complicated tutorials off the net, then point out you need gfx, level design, models, music, sound fx, and £200,000 worth of software and hardware to render the cinematics etc, then tell him it`s worth trying, but you don`t have any ideas so could he storyboard the game for you so you know what you are doing and do the concept art?, just keep asking for the storyboard and keep finding problems with it if he actualy tries to make one up, hey! it`s easy to be a critic

Mentor.

Andy Igoe
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Posted: 10th Jun 2003 19:18
I have a similar problem on ocassion when i'm busy working and Nick isn't. We solve it in a very novel way.

We put down our coffee, and bugger off down the pub, then i'll catch up before I meet up with Nick again.

Now if you literally transpose that to your situation it isn't going to work, but what you can do is go away from the computer to design the game, take with you: notepad; pencil; and a football and head for the park.

Pneumatic Dryll
andrew11
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 03:07
@arrow + Dazzag
He dosen't have a computer remember? I kinda feel sorry for him.

@Pneu
It's not that I can't think of ideas, I just don't want to make this kind of game, nor am I able to (In the time he says anyway). I have plenty of ideas, just my own. Besides, he has the whole thing planned out anyway.

"Food is güd!" -Dean
"All programmers are playwrites and all computers are lousy actors" -Anon
Click Here!!!
Solidz Snake
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 03:22 Edited at: 11th Jun 2003 03:23
Simply put, u're a nice kid, and he's got the attitude of taking advantage of nice kids.

Dare u to show him this topic, then ur problem is solved.

Snake? What happened? Snake? Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!!! - Colonel Roy Campbell

andrew11
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 05:27
Yeah, I guess.

Well, thanks to all of you for your advice.

"Food is güd!" -Dean
"All programmers are playwrites and all computers are lousy actors" -Anon
Click Here!!!
bitJericho
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 06:55
better yet... just tell him you had to reformat your computer and you lost the db cds.. but do it in such a complicated '133t' way that he couldn't possibly comprehend what you mean... and then when he asks you what you mean say, sorry no more db

perhaps you can say this..
I was compiling a project in DB and my computer inadvertently caused a page fault in 0001x9 and my computer started lagging. So quickly, being the computer guru i am, took and decompiled windows with disasm and fixed the problem, except it created another problem in my harddrive at sector 1600 and my harddrive failed. Then I reformated with fdisk and reinstalled windows. When I tried to reinstall DB it seemed windows over wrote the data on the disk and now I don't have DB anymore.. sorry

The 3D Modeler's Group : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3dModeler/
The Unofficial DB Newsgroup : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DBMag/
Dazzag
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 10:30
Ah yes. The classic "a virus deleted all my work" excuse. Normally happens after a bit of flame wars about how good your masterpiece actually is (re: big robot in big open plain with nothing going on), and you were just about to prove it to.

Buy him a computer. Then kill him.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
DarkSith
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 17:50
Or you could just tell him where to stick his game idea!

"He will join us, or die my Master..." - Darth Vader
Mattman
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 18:23
I have a close prob myself I had the basic outline for a game, and it was gonna b in 2d, and my friend was gonna draw the peeps (i'm a terrible artist) but then i decided to move to 3d, and so now my friend who thinks I can program it in a month, is naggin' me to move faster. I dumped off the project for a while, but brought him back for who knows why. Sorry I'm no help, I just wanted 2 get that "off my chest" as the description of the forum says

---Mattman
"Computers make it easier to do a lot of things, but most of the things they make it easier to do don't need to be done." Andy Rooney
Misanthrope
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 23:36
Honesty's the best policy.

I had a not-quite-a-friend who was like that...he was more of a "I want to start a team, I have the info, but I need so-and-so and this-and-that" guy, which is why I don't quite call him a friend. More of a working acquaintance. Anyway, this was back in 1998 or so, and he was wanting to do a little something with some open-source game engine. I started off being one of the artists.

Next thing I know, I'm also an assistant coder. Then I'm also an assistant level designer. Then an assistant storyboarder. I'm starting to get suspicious at all the hats he's giving me to wear, and I start asking where the rest of the team is. He sort of deals with it in an evasive manner...like, he'll say "Oh, so-and-so's had to take a temporary break" or "The guy normally responsible for that needs help because he's swamped" or whatever.

Eventually he suddenly tells me I'm responsible for the whole game because he "wants to abandon the dated open source technology and start from scratch with a new team who doesn't shirk their responsibilities." So he wanted me to code the engine, do the sprites, textures, and models, plus the levels. And for that, I would get a staggering 50% of the net royalties. So I ask him what exactly it is he's gonna be doing to justify his 50% cut, and he says "Oh, I'll be doing all the marketing and promotional work!"

Fair enough. Coding was fun enough on its own at the time. But then the unrealistic and silly demands started to come. He described Neverwinter Nights perfectly before it came out, and he wanted me to do it all in six months, with a working rough draft within three months. Of course, I'm beginning to wonder if he's got a crack habit he isn't telling me about.

So I started off by creating highly optimized data structures and the beginnings of a networking system based on the Winsock libraries, plus creating an incredibly tight code port of a paper-and-dice roleplaying game ruleset to power the task resolution. I also worked on a "console" dealie with a pretty sweet parser to verify and proof the netcode over a MUD-like prototype, and which would later serve as an in-game console once the graphical end of it was plugged into the code. I figured for the sake of actually having a working prototype, 2D graphics in the background of the console would do...kind of like a cut-down Ultima Online meets GemStone III. 3D stuff could always come later.

About a month and a half later, I had the basics working. You couldn't really do much beyond walking around in a text console and beating people senseless barehanded in a MUD. (I hadn't included any weapons or armor. I didn't feel it was necessary for a networking proof.)

He gets panicky and starts berating me about it "not being what he expected" and how "it's supposed to be 3D and fully functional"
and how "Neverwinter Nights stole my idea and they have a headstart on us, you need to get busy so we can compete, or we're doomed!"

Of course, I'm all "No shit, Buckwheat, it's a networking proof, we have a pretty good framework for that." It was totally lost on him, and he was just freaking out about "I didn't think it was going to be like that, this project isn't gonna succeed!"

Then he calms down and starts demanding I finish a working 3D proof within three weeks. And he starts demanding to see my code (This guy isn't a programmer, he doesn't know very much about it), and he starts trying to micromanage the code side of it. You know, like "Why are you rolling hundreds of dice before initializing the game engine? You should roll them in realtime!" and "You shouldn't precompile sin and cos tables, that's cheating", and my favorite, "Where's the 3D code? Is it all this 'BitBlt' stuff?".

Annoying pissant stuff like that. Went on for about two and a half weeks before my patience finally evaporated.

I told him "Either you let me code this engine as I see fit, conforming to your written parameters, or you can F--- off and do it all yourself, because I've had it with your tired little wannabe 'I'm-the-next-John-Carmack!' dramatics."

He finally shut up, but by that time I was already so sick of the project and his utter cluelessness that I told him I wasn't having anything more to do with it. He asked me for the code I'd done up to that point, and I told him to go to hell because I had done practically all of the work myself while all he did was bitch, moan, whine, and panic.

At the risk of sounding cliche, at the moment when I finally told him off for good, I felt like a load was taken off my shoulders. Since then, I've politely turned down around 8 or 9 offers to join a game development team after reading their proposals, because it just isn't worth stressing yourself out for someone else who really doesn't have a clue.

-Misanthrope

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