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Dark GDK / Bumpmapping: the real deal?

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Chalkey
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 00:39
Ive searched a few threads and found no real answer to the mysterious bugged bumpmapping. On a recent project I applied the dbSetBumpMappingOn to my model and during the next compile the model vanished.

A few people with the same problem suggested a (cheap) fix by finding a Bumpmapping fx file to use inplace of the built in command, but the ones I have found seem to merit the same effect.

On the forum messages that I have looked at, no one with authority seemed to answer the question directly that Bumpmapping is bugged or not.

I was just wondering, since this is an advertised feature, what is the official verdict? And, if it is faulty, will it be fixed?

Thanks
Chalk
Chalkey
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 20:18
So, isnt any one from the development team or in the know going to answer this?

Chalk
unitech
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 20:20
I know for a fact its bugged use normal mapping shaders.
Chalkey
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 19:16
Its a simple question that all your paying customers deserve an answer too...
unitech
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Posted: 13th Sep 2007 19:39 Edited at: 13th Sep 2007 19:39
I rarely get answers on the forum like that. I'm sure there is a reason. I think the best method is to email them. I'm not giving the solution here just a suggestion.
Chalkey
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Posted: 14th Sep 2007 18:19
I sent the technical support an email and they got back claiming that Bumpmapping does work on the DarkGDK and I should try posting here.

Hopefully am wrong and it does work but the lack of support is making me feel otherwise...
jason p sage
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 15:18
Opportunity to become the expert on the matter in the forums if you want to! This way (I know nothing of it yet... haven't gotten to that level of gfx yet but) the next guy won't feel like you did! Evolution man!

(I wouldn't blame you if you didn't want to spend a bunch of time "getting it figured out" but I know many would benefit from it)

Chalkey
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 17:07
Yeah, its just frustrating that Bumpmapping is a key feature in most 3D applications today, and reading other threads on the forum am clearly not the only person who has a problem with it.

I had a look through the samples folder and found the Light example. Reading over this source code was interesting because it loads an image file called bumpmap.jpg, but the command dbSetBumpMappingOn() is never called in this program. So I applied dbSetBumpMappingOn to the main model (the statue in the middle) using the bump map image ID that gets loaded - and guess what - it dissapeared.

I searched the rest of the projects and dbSetBumpMappingOn is never used once. Clearly people know about this problem, its an advertised feature that we have paid for, but the only response ive had about it not working from someone in charge was that it does work and to try on the forums. It seems to me that this is getting brushed under the carpet.
jason p sage
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 19:46
I know sphere mapping works (in dbpro anyway) and that is kinda strange - maybe bumpmapping requires bump images same size as the texture etc? I dunno - just thinking outloud. I believe you that it could well be hosed but I also know I've given up on stuff - BUT as a last glimmer of hope posted and someone came to my resuce... HOWEVER that said - note this forum isn't as "busy" as the DBPro side... so if I was determined to get bumpmapping working - I'd try it in DBPro first and then bring it over. I understand you might not have both - DarkGDK and DBPro - but its a thought.

Good Luck

PostalCOW
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 20:01
Looking at the documentation it looks like your video card needs to have the ability to do it. Maybe it only works on specific cards?

I can't find the source code for that sample in my .NET version. It came with the executable but not the source, and the executable seems to work the statue looks textured and uneven. Does the C/C++ come with the source code for that?

Requirements for life: Food-Water-Video Games!
Chalkey
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 20:13
@Jason - As far as I know all the built in mapping functions besides the bumpmapping work. Maybe the bumpmapping never got ported correctly?

@PostalCOW - Yes the C/C++ does come with the source code. I think you might of missed my last post, but the statue in the C++ version does not have the bump mapping applied. I think its an illusion cast by the lights. The source file for the light demonstration does not implement the dbSetBumpMappingOn function.

As for the specific cards I have 2x GeForce 7600 GT on an SLi board. I doubt its a card issue.
jason p sage
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 20:42
Not being flip - just posting ideas - is there another bump "On" command? Maybe a flag in an image load or creat object command that is like "anudda" way to do the same thing perhaps? (Explaining the omission you cited in the code for a setBumpMappingOn() command...)

and powersoft - there definately is source but the "Solution" file is a version of Visual Studio I don't have or something - you think Microsoft would make (XML based for crying out loud) files that were a little more portable... but noooo.... Look what they did to office 2007? Could they get any bulkier and non portable? (They are zip files ... with zipped files in them aahhhh)

(I digresss yet again... the medication isn't working )

PostalCOW
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 20:55
By video card I didn't mean that the video card did not have the ability rather that the card is not supported by the GDK. Maybe it only works on older nVidia cards or newer ATI cards etc.

I did a little walk through the documentation and I don't see any other command that has anything bumpmap related.

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Chalkey
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 20:55
I searched through the help file and there is only one command relating to (well with 'bump' in its name) and thats dbSetBumpMappingOn.

I also checked through the DarkSDKBasic3D header file and again found only one result - dbSetBumpMappingOn.
PostalCOW
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 21:32
Sorry about that Chalkey, I'm not sure what to try next. My bag of tricks is empty on this one.

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jason p sage
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Posted: 15th Sep 2007 23:15
Not ME!!! Actually me too... BUT - Can you maybe zip up and upload a little "load object, tricket of media you are trying to bump map (textures etc), the code that you are trying to test - just a mini app... auto cam and all that just to see it fail - or whatever and MAYBE we will new ideas for you then?!?!

(I hate to give up... Especially when its my understanding you can get quite a facelift to a scene with it - and I THOUGHT it was pretty lightweight because the vid card handles it - i.e. doesn't trash frame rates.. though I AM NOT knowledgable here yet...)

Chalkey
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 00:41
To be hounest jason, not that I dont appriciate your help, what I want is a moderator or developer to reply to my question and possibly up an example of the Bumpmapping working.

The project I was working on was OO based so everything is in classes. If ive time after work tomorrow I'll throw together something small to show.

Up to now it seems this thread has been deliberatly avoided...
Red Ocktober
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Posted: 16th Sep 2007 05:11 Edited at: 16th Sep 2007 05:17
hey Chalkey... i can't seem to get the default bumpmapping working either... it doesn't crash or anything, just doesn't show the object...

i suggest you use a different bumpmapping shader...

here's the code for Green Gandalf's bumpmapping shader...



just copy and paste it to a file called GGbump01e.fx, and place it in your projects fx folder, so the next bit of code can find it...

then compile and run this code...



it's a simple program which will just give you a bumpmapped cube rotating in the middle of the view...


note 1
you will need to supply your own image and normal map, and put it in the projects media folder so the code can find it... don't forget to replace the names in the code...

note 2
GG uses a light direction instead of light position, so you'll have to come up with an algorithm for changing the lighting direction and passing it as a variable to the shader...

note 3
look through the shader code to see what other variables can be passed to the shader to get different effects...

i hope this helps... good luck

--Mike
Chalkey
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Posted: 17th Sep 2007 17:41
Thanks Red Ocktober, it will make a worthy substitute until the Bumpmapping problem gets fixed (if ever).

The main point in this thread though was for an admin/someone in the development loop to answer my question. Out of the emails/threads about my question ive had one crappy response stating that it does work and a bug has not yet been discovered.
Red Ocktober
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Posted: 18th Sep 2007 15:28
Quote: "until the Bumpmapping problem gets fixed (if ever)."


if ever...

yeah... i hear you on this one... it would be nice for someone up high to address this issue, as this has been around for quite a while now, and i think that the solution wouldn't be a complicated one...

anyways... yeah, i would say, use the shaders that Evolved and Green Gandalf have generously provided to the community in place of the default db shader functions... even though you may have to supply a few variables to the shader, these seem to work, and lend themselves to porting from dBASIC to c++ pretty easily for the most part...

good luck...

--Mike
Chalkey
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Posted: 19th Sep 2007 14:40
I sent an email to 4 of the admins personal email accounts explaining the situation. Am waiting for a response, but dont count on it. I'll keep you all informed of the situation.

Chalk
Mike Johnson
TGC Developer
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Posted: 19th Sep 2007 17:33
I have attached an example created by Paul (author of Dark Shader). Hopefully this will be a good starting point for you.

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unitech
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Posted: 19th Sep 2007 22:03
Mike Johnson, I see your attached file if of the shader nature? I think chalkey is have trouble with the bump mapping DB command ( dbSetBumpMappingOn ). Agreed this shader is nice and does work, but I dont think that Chalkey's problem.
Chalkey
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Posted: 20th Sep 2007 17:19
To Mike

I appriciate a reply but I have to agree with unitech that I dont have trouble with shaders, the trouble is with the built in bumb mapping command (dbSetBumpMappingOn).

The problem is when I call this command and set bump mapping on an object it dissapears. My question is does this command work or is it in fact bugged?

Thanks
Chalk
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 20th Sep 2007 18:40
Will test the bump mapping function when I work on the next update. For now at least you have a viable option.
Chalkey
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Posted: 20th Sep 2007 20:08
Okay cheers,

Chalk

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