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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Independant Game Rating Company. Rating and sales one stop.

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incense
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Posted: 24th Sep 2007 06:00 Edited at: 27th Sep 2007 06:30
The site for the latest and soon to be greatest Game rating system is up and running. I am still working on it. It needs a new makeup job. You can visit the site here:
http://igrc.unlhosting.info/

The space was provided by Mr Makealotofsmoke and he is very serious about what he does. The server is fast and the cutomer support is right on. Vista panel is great and the other tools and toys rock the house. I highly recomend the service. check out the goods at:
http://unlhosting.info/
the service came standard with just about all that I needed to set up the site. Thanks a ton Mr Makealotofsmoke you're one in a million.




Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
Mr Makealotofsmoke
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Posted: 24th Sep 2007 13:29
PresFox
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Posted: 24th Sep 2007 20:32 Edited at: 24th Sep 2007 20:33
Quote: "hy use our hosting service?


We are using a powerful cluster of web servers that are all interconnected to act as one giant super computer. This technology is years ahead of other hosting companies. We combine the power of lots of server simultaneously which creates lightening fast website speeds.
"



Is VERY untrue

Clustering is VERY common, and used by many, many hosts, Mmo's, and other companies that need alot of processing power.

Also, with 11 clients you dont even need a dedicated server, let alone i cluster. I host 8000 websites on 3 servers, and those arent even clustered

Microsoft isnt evil, they just make really crappy operating systems -- Linus torvalds
PresFox
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Posted: 24th Sep 2007 20:55 Edited at: 24th Sep 2007 20:55
-double post-

Microsoft isnt evil, they just make really crappy operating systems -- Linus torvalds
xplosys
18
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Playing: FPSC Multiplayer Games
Posted: 24th Sep 2007 21:55
Quote: "I host 8000 websites on 3 servers, and those arent even clustered"


LOL. You were doing fine until that slipped out.

Best.

I'm sorry, my answers are limited. You must ask the right question.

PresFox
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Posted: 24th Sep 2007 22:13
bah, i know, seems kind off bragging doesnt it

Sorry, shouldnt have slipped out

I stand with my clustering point though

Microsoft isnt evil, they just make really crappy operating systems -- Linus torvalds
TGPEG
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Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted: 24th Sep 2007 23:22
I thought clustering was what you did in a game of marbles

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incense
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Posted: 25th Sep 2007 00:19 Edited at: 27th Sep 2007 06:30
PresFox, The facts could have been pointed out in a nicer way I beleive.

I now have the forums up and running. Just got a member less than an hour ago. I barely had it all ready to use and there they were on the members list. LOL!!

I love it.

I have installed a store. If people want they can sell there games on my site. For a small fee of 10% or else $2.00 USD a month I can create and maintain a store just for them. I take payments through Paypal. I can create as many stores as I need. I am talking about a full sized store for the price, not a charge per item. You can use it to sell game media in any format as well. the possibilities are endless.

Just to some it up:
Independant Game Rating Company to rate your games.
Webstore to sell your stuff in.
Forums to talk about all the above and allot more.

Not to mention that I am currently working on some deals with some companies to add some really cool stuff that you can have for free.

All that in one place!!

I had allot of fun setting it up and hope to see all of you there.

Later!!




Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
DarkFact
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Posted: 25th Sep 2007 01:15
Just signed up, Don. Nice ideas...We're gonna have to chat about one of them because we'll become competitors. whaa haaa haaaa

If you need any help with that CMS, let me know. I've been using it for 4 years and know it inside out.

~Dave

Phoenix Sentry Programmer
incense
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Posted: 25th Sep 2007 01:21 Edited at: 27th Sep 2007 06:30
I would not want to step on your toes DF. Just send me an email with what you have in mind.

Thanks for the offer on the CMS. I have used xoops on and off for about that long. I am no expert though. I'm one of thoes people that knows when he needs a hand and isn't afraid to ask. I would be happy to rely on your expertise if need be.




Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
DarkFact
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Posted: 25th Sep 2007 02:30 Edited at: 25th Sep 2007 02:32
Quote: "I would not want to step on your toes DF."


Don't worry about me, man. Besides, you know my philosophy: Competition breeds creativity! I'll email you what I have in mind. We can probably work together on it anyway.

I don't want to hijack your thread either, man. Are you going to change the theme? That one's a bit bland and the default favicon screams XOOPS!

EDIT: Also, if you use CBB for the forums, it ties into the xoops core and you don't have to have a second login for the forums.

~Dave

Phoenix Sentry Programmer
incense
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Posted: 25th Sep 2007 05:19 Edited at: 28th Sep 2007 16:04
I tried CBB and it would just give me the main menu after the install and that is all. So I worked around it. I like the one that I have now though. It really doesn't matter to me that it isn't seamless. It has all the tools that I need.

I look forward to your email.

Hang lose Dude!!

Later!

EDIT: The first 10 titles that are submited will be rated and posted in the main store for sale. The creators of thoes titles will not be charged for the rating. They will have the choice between the $2.00 or 10% sales options. Submissions must be full games meant for retail. We will not rate demos or non-retail games for this offer. Demos and non-retail games will be subject to the $5.00 USD rating fee.

If you are worried about us stealing your stuff you can protect it with the Phoenix Game Protection System. You can get it for free at http://www.phoenix-sentry.com/. We do suggest the higher versions if you want to really personalize things.


EDIT:
The ESRB or any other game rating service has no special sanction to rate games. As I said before, they are a stand alone company that people assume has the power to be the only people that can do what they do. I have searched high and low ad can't find anything that says that they have a special license or funding from the federal government to do what they do. In fact there doesn't seem to be any legal or financial relationship between them and the US Federal Government at all. The only thing that is on there site that outlines them and the feds teaming up are news articles about making people aware. I can't put something on my site that cannot be found because it doesn’t exist. The ESRB and other ratings companies have the right that is guaranteed in the Constitution of The United States Of America to start and run such a company. That's the only sanction anyone needs to rate games.

I feel it is important to say again that government approval or licensing is not needed to rate games.

Also I do remember saying that I am not out to replace the ESRB. I just want to offer an alternative. Just an alternative that's all. The ESRB can stay around for a thousand years or die tomorrow and I wouldn't care either way. Im not out to replace them or see them go under. People should have a choice and that is all I am trying to do is offer a choice.

The trick is going to be getting the choice that is being offered to be as recognized as the current Private Company that is already rating games. I don't need anyone to tell me the obstacles. I know the score. I know difficulties involved. The biggest issue is that people think that things are not going to change just because. That's the most ridiculous reason in the world. It's a proven fact that things can and do change if people push hard enough and in the right way. Look all through World history. So many things have changed the over just because people tried something new.

If you take a defeatist attitude you lose. Cut and dry.

If you go and join the site you don't have to pay anything to anyone and it is not a contract for anything. The ESRB or anyone else is not going come busting into your home arrest you for it.

You can pay between $800.00 and $4,000.00 or you can join a cause that is trying to change that.

If you have productive input I'm ready to listen. You can spit out excuses why this won't work forever. I'm not listening to them anymore.

In order for anything to work people have to get behind it. Why not get behind this? Just because? I’m not listening to that either.

Some people never do anything because they feel like it won't change anything. Actually it is the fact that nothing changes because they never do anything.

The choice is simple. Other larger bodies are telling you to shut up, sit down and pay up. Another body that believes certain freedoms is saying stand, be heard and be counted.

People would argue that but that's the way that I see it and I'm not backing down on it and that it is that.

Do what the big bullies tell you or try to make a change.

I for one am makng an effort to right a few wrongs by making sure that there is more than one choice.

Are you going to join me or are you going to take what your being given quietly?





Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
xplosys
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 17:28 Edited at: 28th Sep 2007 17:33
incense,

When I try to post to your forum, it asks me to log in again, and says You have specified an incorrect or inactive username, or an invalid password, even after I have logged in on the main page.

Best.

Nevermind. I see that I had to subscribe to both.

Thanks.

I'm sorry, my answers are limited. You must ask the right question.

incense
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Posted: 28th Sep 2007 18:07 Edited at: 28th Sep 2007 18:08
xplosys and IceCube thanks for your support.

It is support for a project like this that makes the all difference.

Im talking to some educational institutes (elementary, middle and high schools and school admins) about endorsement. They seem to want to help but are apprehensive. I have sent them printed info packs tailor made for each of the places that I sent them to. I hope to get some calls soon that will boost the cause.

I will keep you posted.




Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
Benjamin A
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 01:36 Edited at: 29th Sep 2007 01:38
Just a little suggestion.... you may want to read through your frontpage thouroughly, there are a number of spelling mistakes in it, it looks kind of sloppy.

Can someone also fill me in where this sudden urge for rating games comes from? Besides that it makes the company that rates the game some ( or a lot ) money, I still fail to see the point of it. Personally I do think that any rating system, how noble they may sound, is just another way to get my hard earned money.

First of all, my games have been selling fine without a rating. Most indie games don't carry a rating at all, other then making it clear in the description who the game is for.

Secondly, as a (responsible) parent I do not trust the judgement of anyone alse rating a game. No parent should. If I buy or download a new game (or movie) for my kids, (or they buy or download one themselves) e look at it together. Sometimes if I don't trust the game/movie or it isn't completely clear what it is, I look at it beforehand. Most of the time we look at it together, play it and discuss if it is something we want in our home and stands for the values and morals we have. That's the best rating system their is. After all we all have different morals and values and what you think is right, may be wrong in my opinion. I've seen games rated for 6 years and up, that I wouldn't want to play myself. I've seen games rated 13 and up, still wondering why they ever rated it that high.

Other parents I know do not even look at the ratings.... they read the description and look at the screenshots and then decide if the game is OK. Then there's a lot of parents I know who do not even care. They allow their kids to play anything they like, watch anything they like (and then later wonder why little Johnny behaves so violently).

So, imo spending any money on any kind of rating system is throwing money down the drain, we've seen them come and go. But, if people are so desperate to have their games rated, I guess I could make some money also in offering such a service, I'm open to suggestions

But since their is a good and free and proven alternative for ESRB already, I wonder why this even got started? http://www.tigrs.org/

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
Goodman84
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 02:29
STOP ADVERTISING THAT DARN TIGRS! I'm sorry but its so repetitive its annoying!

hey
Benjamin A
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 02:35
Sorry, I don't read every thread there is, so I didn't see it before, nor did I advertise it before. Besides why not? It's been going for over 2 years now and it's free and easy to use.... and if you don't trust your own judgement let others fill it out for you to get good results.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
Goodman84
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 05:02
It was meant as a half joke

hey
Benjamin A
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 10:23 Edited at: 29th Sep 2007 10:28
Then you have to put the or or so behind it, so I know you're kidding

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
incense
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 16:57
Benjamin A, Some of what you say is very valid. However the entire world seems to be moving in a different direction then your opinion. It's not anyone’s fault. That's just the way it turned out. Until the rest of the world agrees with you on this subject things will continue to move in the direction it is moving in now. What you have to is start a movement to make everyone aware that game ratings are not needed. The only thing that you will have to do is convince Parents, Teachers, Child care experts, Universities that have done studies on the matter, the governments of the world that think that the ratings are needed......

The list goes on and on and on and on......

Until that is done this trend will continue. Say what you like but the world doesn't listen until you get in its face and make your point so solid that it cannot be denied. Then and then will they world support you.

Thanks for pointing out the errors. There were only a few common ones and thanks to you they have been fixed. Thanks allot.

Also as a foot note: Correcting people is not a good way to make friends and influence people. I have no feeling about it one way or the other but most people take offence.




Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
PresFox
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Posted: 29th Sep 2007 18:16
correcting people would not be neccessary if people didnt make spelling mistakes on their corporate website.

If you are really that serious, you need to put effort into professionalism. A free host, subdomain and a page with spelling errors dont exactly shout professionalism

Microsoft isnt evil, they just make really crappy operating systems -- Linus torvalds
incense
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Posted: 30th Sep 2007 02:36 Edited at: 11th Oct 2007 16:24
PresFox, I will get a domain for the project when the project can afford it. Not until then. If the service is for inde developers by an inde developer, then inde developers that use it will understand what a shoestring budget is.

As for the errors and correcting people. I thanked the person that corrected me. I was refering to correcting others. I am not so easily offended. And who said anything about a corporation. I have not incorporated anything. It is a company not a corporation. That was an error on your part but it is really no big deal everyone makes mistakes.

As for professionalism I have gotten 8 members in 6 days. they don't seem to have a problem with the way that I am doing things.

Notice that in no way do I try to insult you or talk you down. You are entitled to your opinion. I only ask that you not be so hostile in the thread that I have started.

Here is what the AUP has to say on posts such as yours.

Quote: "3.11 We do not tolerate posts made for the purpose of putting down another forum member, group of members, religion, our company, our staff or any of our moderators, past or present.

3.12 We do not tolerate 'trolling', the process of posting inflamatory messages for the sake of starting an argument, or being plain obnoxious.

3.13 If your message violates any or all of the points above we reserve the right to take action against you. This can include restrictions such as: Temporary or full bans from our forum. IP/subnet/domain/ISP level blocking of access to our forum AND website, including your Order History. Refusal of all product related support. Removal of rights to purchase from our store.

We would prefer that we never have to enforce any of these, so keep your forum activity in check and it should never need to happen."


Thank you for your cooperation.

Benjamin A, I thank you for your polite posts and appreciate your pointing out the errors on my site. Thanks again.

Foot note: I am as calm as calm can be. I would not want a mod to think that I am getting heated. It takes allot more than this to get me heated.




Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
PresFox
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2007 14:45
you still have a number of errors on your site

Allot (alot), Submittied (submitted), peak (peek), The rating from us (our ratings)

Microsoft isnt evil, they just make really crappy operating systems -- Linus torvalds
Storm 6000
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2007 15:04 Edited at: 2nd Oct 2007 15:09
I would like to point out something else that came across to me in a poor light.

Quote: "If you are worried about us stealing your stuff you can protect it with the Phoenix Game Protection System."


Thats just sounds really bad to me. The language used an the implication are all wrong. Particularly I feel "Stuff" is a very poor word to use in a business enviroment it is as it is a such a vague and unprofessional word. I mean isn't this the spot where your privacy policy should go not implying they may not be able to trust you and that they should download protection software which in itself may pose a threat to them, as if they can't trust you can they really trust your advice. Just voicing my opinion and hope you will condsider amending this section.

Please don't be upset by this and note I took the time the post that because I want you to succeed.

Thanks
Adam
incense
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2007 15:42 Edited at: 2nd Oct 2007 16:59
Quote: "you still have a number of errors on your site

Allot (alot), Submittied (submitted), peak (peek), The rating from us (our ratings)"



Allot (alot) - Spellcheck says that "Allot" is the correct spelling and that "alot" is the incorrect spelling. This is something that anyone can check out for them selves. In fact I say don't listen to me. Open something with spell check or go to www.webster.com and look it up yourself.

Submittied (submitted) - Fixed. Thanks!

peak (peek) - Fixed. Thanks!

The rating from us (our ratings) - I searched the net and several grammer text books that the children use at school. I have found no rule of English to warrant the change. The third sentence is in reference to the second and that sentence does not use the plural "ratings", it is singular. That means that a plural reference to the singular word "rating" would be improper.

Thanks for the input.



Quote: "would like to point out something else that came across to me in a poor light.


Quote: "If you are worried about us stealing your stuff you can protect it with the Phoenix Game Protection System.""



It does sound a little rough doesn't it. I will change that to "media". That rolls out allot better.

Thanks Storm 6000. You can post this sort of thing in the forums to and I would see it there also.

I am getting better response to the IGRC site than I thought I would. It needs more members though. There is strength in numbers.

I am currently working up a color scheme and theme for the site. If you want to post some suggestions you can do that in the IGRC forums. Contributions are welcome.




Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
PresFox
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2007 16:09
allot is a english word, but it means something different then you want.

Alot is from A lot, and is the correct spelling in that sentence

Submitted is still spelled as submittied

as for this sentence:
The rating from us will not carry much weight until many people start using them

The rating is single, them is multiple. so it would be either Our ratings, or replacing them with it

Microsoft isnt evil, they just make really crappy operating systems -- Linus torvalds
incense
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2007 16:57 Edited at: 2nd Oct 2007 17:00
As it turns out. If I change the sentence to the following then it is valid: "The ratings from us will not carry much weight until many people start using them"

It also turns out that Websters Dictionary has never heard of the contraction "alot". However it does list the words "a lot" as a single entry.

In this case I could have used "7. a lot : a considerable quantity or extent".

I used "1. allot: to assign as a share or portion"

While either one could be interpreted as correct by most people, Only the very technical minded would have seen the difference.

I have changed it for the sake of anyone that might see the difference. I have no issues trying to please as many people as possible.

I feel like I am getting an english paper graded. LOL!!![i]




Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
PresFox
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2007 00:17
sorry,

im not a native speaker, so im wrong at times, but those terms just kind off "felt" wrong, if you know what i mean

Microsoft isnt evil, they just make really crappy operating systems -- Linus torvalds
TGPEG
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2007 00:23 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2007 00:24
I noticed that - and I'm about as technically minded as a large elephant.

EDIT: Anyone from England will know the term 'allotment'- basically a small peice of land you are allotted when you buy your house that you can grow cabbages and stuff on.

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incense
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2007 12:39 Edited at: 9th Oct 2007 17:08
Heaven and earth knows that I am far from perfect. That is whay it is good get input from others. A third eye view can mean a lot somtimes.




Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
Storm 6000
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2007 15:34 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2007 15:35
No problem best of luck with finishing off the site sections such as FAQ does nothing at the moment and how does Xhelp work

Thanks
Adam
incense
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2007 17:18 Edited at: 9th Oct 2007 17:09
Xhelp is a help desk. You can go there and log a ticket for assistance or other reason.

I have relabled it "Help Desk"

EDIT:
I finally got a response from the ESRB. I asked them what formula they used to rate games. Here is their response.

Quote: "Thank you for contacting the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB). We sincerely appreciate your taking the time to write.

The ESRB ratings are designed to provide concise and impartial information about the content in computer and video games so consumers, especially parents, can make an informed purchase decision. ESRB ratings have two equal parts: rating symbols suggest age appropriateness for the game and content descriptors indicate elements in a game that may have triggered a particular rating and/or may be of interest or concern.

In regards to your inquiry, the definitions on our website are the criteria for each rating category, and the raters consider these along with their own opinions and historical parity in the assignment of ratings. There is no rigid set of criteria, as it is ultimately on the basis of the raters' judgment that the ratings are assigned.

To get an idea of our rating process please follow this link: http://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_process.jsp.

We hope this information is helpful, and thank you for writing.

Regards,

Entertainment Software Rating Board
"


They openly state that they have no set formula. It is up to the opinion of the people that rate the games. They only keep the items on the list that they have in mind.




Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
Mr Makealotofsmoke
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 07:37
hey man, im back from holidays
i got my paid hosting site so if u wanna move there for free email me.
u will get the same sort of webspace and bandwidth but cpanel 11 and a lot of other things

incense
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 14:30 Edited at: 9th Oct 2007 17:09
Mr Makealotofsmoke, I have sent you an email. I look forward to hearing from you soon.





Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
Mr Makealotofsmoke
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Posted: 6th Oct 2007 07:42
ok i got most of the billing software going, just gotta add more packages and all the stuff

i sent u an email back with the URL and other stuff.
Hope u enjoy it if you choose to use it

Goodman84
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Posted: 7th Oct 2007 18:15
I hate grammar Wait a second I hate Spelling too.

hey
incense
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 00:49 Edited at: 9th Oct 2007 17:10
Goodman84: It does seem to get in the way quite a bit. Doesn't it.




Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.
Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 01:42 Edited at: 9th Oct 2007 02:40
I'm in the process starting an alternative game rating system too.
I'm glad to see more people bucking the ESRB monopoly.

However...
Quote: "Independent Game Rating Company to rate your games. - $5.00 USD per title"

That is a bit unrealistic.
Some members of Congress are trying to pass laws (if they haven't already) that require the ESRB to play the entire game before a game receives its rating. The idea of charging only $5 to rate a game will in no way get you any credibility. Most people will refuse to believe that you would take the time to rate a game for $5. Most game ratings cost between $2,000 and $4,000 US Dollars to have it rated by the ESRB. $5 isn't enough to process the order. I can understand an intention to create a volume of customers with the low cost, but for this kind of thing that could backfire. Few will take it seriously at that price. I'm not knocking your thing you got going, I'm trying to help.

Quote: "I have searched high and low ad can't find anything that says that they have a special license or funding from the federal government to do what they do. In fact there doesn't seem to be any legal or financial relationship between them and the US Federal Government at all. "

As their web site states they are "self regulatory", so the Government does not regulate them, however those things are about to change here in the states.
I am currently developing a system that will revolutionize the game rating industry. (I'll be proposing the new system to law makers)
I can't give you the details until I go public, but if all things go to plan then the ESRB's monopoly will be a thing of the past.

Quote: "The ESRB or any other game rating service has no special sanction to rate games. As I said before, they are a stand alone company that people assume has the power to be the only people that can do what they do. "

They have something better... an agreement with companies like GameStop, Wal-Mart, and Best-Buy, etc. to only sell games that have their rating.
That is where they crossed the line and venture into being guilty of trying to create a monopoly.
There are laws against such activity, ask MicroSoft.

Quote: "The ESRB and other ratings companies have the right that is guaranteed in the Constitution of The United States Of America to start and run such a company. That's the only sanction anyone needs to rate games.

I feel it is important to say again that government approval or licensing is not needed to rate games."

Right, it is important to protect the freedom of the rating systems, but it is also important to have laws in affect that protect the consumer.
That is the tricky part, and I think there does need to be laws in place that hold the rater responsible for said rating.
Otherwise xxx stuff will be rated G if the rater can profit from it. Not good for kids!
Censorship is everywhere, even here in the forums we have the MODs watching closely, which is a good thing for children.

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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 17:06 Edited at: 9th Oct 2007 17:41
Conjured Entertainment: I agree with you on everything you have said except the fee for rating games through the IGRC. The rate will probably change in the future as the cost of running things goes up. I am trying to keep it in reach of the Inde developers. They have as much right to get there games rated and to market as much as the big companies do.

I am very interested in knowing where you got the information that the need for game ratings is going to change and how? I have searched for information on that topic and have found nothing so far. There is a great deal of chatter on the news sites about people using the ratings more and more though.




Patience and tolerance are the keys to the passage of knowledge. Even the ones that know the most started with many questions.

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