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3 Dimensional Chat / First model in Silo (Wip)

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Sopo the tocho
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Posted: 24th Sep 2007 17:15 Edited at: 25th Oct 2007 02:03
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Sopo the tocho
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Posted: 24th Sep 2007 17:18 Edited at: 25th Oct 2007 02:03
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Sep 2007 18:50 Edited at: 24th Sep 2007 18:51
[edit] I know it's long, but please read it...for some reason the people I tend to direct long posts at don't read it, hence I am telling you to read it, I hope it has the advice you need and helps you progress.

It's a good start, it seems you're showing you know how to work the mesh...but it needs more direction and structure I would say, of course that's something that comes with practice and learning and isn't something you can do quickly or 'just like that'.

In your Zbrush thread, I gave you two links, they should be helpful...In one of the links (the one that leads to the Seppuku Arts website) go into the Tutorials Section and look at basics...Now basics may appear patronising, but despite that and if you know how to use the tools, I'd look at it in detail anyway - as those are the tools I like to use - though none of the demonstrations are done in Silo, but they are transferable, hence when I picked up Silo I managed to get started straight away.

The second link I gave you, may appear like a lot to read/look at, but if you look at the progress, comments, sets of links in there, you will find ways to give your model more structure and give it a more accurate topology/edge flow.

One thing that's always important is to give EVERY polygon a purpose, not to have wasted polygons. The purpose may be small in some cases, but wasted polygons means a messy mesh and one that's difficult to make corrections on. However, the good thing is, Silo is a beautiful program, if you delete an edge, it will not delete the face until there's a gap, this means if you make 'uneccessary polygons' you can delete their edges right away. Also remember for a clean mesh, you need to avoid ngons (5 or more edged polygons) or tris (3 edges polygons) because they often stand in the way of editing and how the mesh looks overall - here you don't only need to delete edges, but you can draw new ones with the knife tool.

Of course never get ahead of yourself/skills, always start small, learn to walk before you run as they say. People are quite difficult to get right and takes a lot of work/practice.

Also, try to get your model anatomically correct, this means using reference images of people's bodies...The link to my 'making of' thread, will have plenty of reference image resources you can work from, even ones demonstrating polygon flow.

I'd give you demonstrations as to all that I am explaining, but I am at university, meaning I am living away from home and the computer I am using for 3D graphics and unfortunately this laptop isn't fit to run Silo 2 and doesn't even have a decent mouse.

But my advice to you here is, take what I've just said and the links I gave in your Zbrush thread and bookmark it all...because I'd probably advise not to model humans when you've just start learning Silo, I can see you're proud of this model and I see why you are, however, your current skills could be put to better use at less complex models and build towards a human model you truly will be proud of.

Good stuff, keep it up and good luck!

I shot the sheriff
Sopo the tocho
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Posted: 24th Sep 2007 22:09 Edited at: 25th Oct 2007 02:04
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Sep 2007 22:38
Ah, glad to hear that I have helped. Yeah the unfortunate thing with my tutorial is it doesn't show you much, it's just a starting point containing enough info for new character modellers to go off and start. I don't know of any clothes modelling tutorials, I just use a similar method to what I do any organic modelling, such as human beings.

If you want any other help, once you've worked your way around Silo and the 3d modelling world, I found an excellent Silo tutorial (Wish I found this a long time ago) which should come in handy when you know what everything in it means and how to do it:


It's a file directory I'm afraid, the pages don't link together, so you'll have to keep coming back to that page when you've finished one stage and move onto the next. Now this probably isn't your level or something you want to aim at, but it should give you some visualisation as you're willing to complete this. Also, if you're willing to complete this, I would suggest, do what I've done on my current work, just keep working at it until you get it how you want, if you do that, then you should learn loads. I mean if you want, I'll return the favour of Airflow and John-S by helping you out, though I am at uni, I'll give you want ever advice I can give and links.
http://www.silo3d.com/Tutorials/User_Tutorials/tony_jung/HTML_files/

Quote: "Thank you so much for your help and your time!"


No problem at all matey, keeps my brain thinking about 3D whilst I am away from home.

I shot the sheriff
Sureal Chris
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Posted: 25th Sep 2007 01:40
Are you box modelling? If so may I suggest poly modelling? I feel it gives you great creative control and eases the creation of loops.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th Sep 2007 21:10
Actually, I'd probably argue there with that point. Poly modelling does give control as you're working through, but I found it was also a technique responsible for many of my models' problems, though I had the ability to go poly to poly, going into detail caused problems...particularly in Silo. However I found if you're box modelling a base mesh and add the detail via cutting and other modelling methods - and rebuilding parts adding detail you find you get a more solid model and in some respects a quicker result.

I like to think of the box modelling method like drawing, you make the basic shape of your picture - say you were drawing a dog, you'd make shapes that resemble a dog with minimum detail, from that shape you start adding more and more detail, you end up with a basic outline, then basic features, then something more complex - it keeps to a certain solidility and accurate-ness in relation to the initial shape.

With poly modelling, it's like drawing the dog willy nilly - it may look good in the end, but the process may not always be the most efficient. With Silo, I think it's features are much better suited to the box modelling methods, for one thing you can draw new edges (without having to click and drag a straigh line through the mesh as most cut tools do), delete old ones etc. without the attached face being deleted.

Of course, each modeller works to their own, but I'm saying this from being a guy who thought 'poly modelling' was the way to go, when in the end I found something better with box modelling.

I shot the sheriff
Sureal Chris
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Posted: 25th Sep 2007 21:31
I went the other way. I box modelled everything but I felt it restriced the amount of detail I could get. Which was ok for basic objects (boxes, swords, guns)but anything more complex never really looked like it was going somewhere.

At this point I must admit I'm no artist. I don't look at basic meshes and see how to add more detail, I see a really bad looking torso.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th Sep 2007 22:53
Hehe, I mean I suppose it's all how you approach it, I mean both methods have their limitations, we just met different ones. Though I'd still recommend box modelling here, simple because Silo is an absolute beauty for box modelling.

I shot the sheriff
Sopo the tocho
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Posted: 26th Sep 2007 00:19 Edited at: 25th Oct 2007 02:04
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Alucard94
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Posted: 26th Sep 2007 07:29
Your modell looks odd to me... I don't know why but it just doesn't do it as a human for me, sorry.

I model I clean and I cook for you... AND I STILL DONT GET A COOKIE!!?!!?!?!!?!??
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th Sep 2007 16:21
Quote: "you mean my torso? Im so sad now "


I think he was referring to his own attempts with the box modelling method. Though the reality, yours does need a lot of work, but nevertheless, that's the way of 3D modelling, you make a model you're proud of but it then still needs a lot of work to get to the next stage and when you've reached that, you'll look back and will think your previous work is crap, despite what you previoiusly thought or what others think - because personally, I think all of the work up to my demon has been crap and I still got a lot of work to do until the next stage - when I reach that stage I will not look at my work as I do now.

So don't be disheartened, professional quality is a long road - but an enjoyable one at that (otherwise I would have picked another hobby. ) Of course if you're going to aim for game quality, the road is shorter.

I shot the sheriff
Sureal Chris
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Posted: 26th Sep 2007 19:24 Edited at: 26th Sep 2007 19:26
Quote: "you mean my torso? Im so sad now "


Quote: "I think he was referring to his own attempts with the box modelling method."


Aye. My earlier attempts looked like they were made of boxes.

If you're to continue with box modelling may I make an alternate suggestion? Keep the polycount low and the sub-d to 2 at most. Model each part of the anatomy to a sufficent level befoe continueing onto another part. ie. get the front working before moving onto the back, followed by the shoulders and arms.
Sopo the tocho
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Posted: 30th Sep 2007 01:44 Edited at: 25th Oct 2007 02:04
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RUCCUS
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Posted: 30th Sep 2007 02:20 Edited at: 30th Sep 2007 02:22
That model already is way too hi poly for a game... and because its been modelled from a primitive, there's no edge loops, so animating it will be near impossible.

Things like silo and zbrush are made for a few things: hi-poly still-art, normal maps, and quick low poly adjustments, not for making game-ready animatable models.

Sopo the tocho
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Posted: 30th Sep 2007 02:29 Edited at: 25th Oct 2007 02:05
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RUCCUS
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Posted: 30th Sep 2007 02:37
I dont think Silo has a UV mapper. But if the model will be completely useless for a game, why do you even want to bother uv mapping it, since that's the only thing you were planning on using it for.

Sopo the tocho
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Posted: 30th Sep 2007 02:44 Edited at: 25th Oct 2007 02:05
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Deathead
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Posted: 30th Sep 2007 13:03
Quote: "7000 verts "

That is a tad high for a human model. Human models tend to be 1000-3000.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Sep 2007 13:41
Quote: "
Things like silo and zbrush are made for a few things: hi-poly still-art, normal maps, and quick low poly adjustments, not for making game-ready animatable models."


Actually they're really good for both high poly and low poly models, the high poly work in Zbrush can easily be turned into Normal map and the same for displacement mapping in Silo.

Quote: "I dont think Silo has a UV mapper. "


Silo 2 now comes with a UVMapper, but I haven't a clue how to use it.

Sopo, google "Silo 2 uv mapping tutorials" - though it's a bit early to be UV Mapping, you still have a lot to learn in the 3D modelling department and well a model like yours I would say would be a difficult thing to UV Map effectively.

I shot the sheriff

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