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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Contribution: basic stories for your game

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Ertlov
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Posted: 25th Sep 2007 12:19 Edited at: 25th Sep 2007 12:41
I know, it`s not exactely a script, but its not "model & Media" either. If a moderator wants to move this one to another section, I`m surely not angry about that.

However, after reading dozens of variations of the same story like "mutant killer virus turns people to zombies" or "you are Sergeant XXX operating deep within German territory during WWII", I´ve decided to aks our storywriter for some inspiration for the FPSC community.

He came up with three different ideas, the first one described here. The others will follow as soon as I`ve checked if they are free from any 3rd party idea / copyright.
Feel free to use these stories, alter them, or simply take some inspiration.
XXX means you can put your own names here.
There are no restrictions, but mentioning "based upon XXX from Sam Miller (Homegrown Games)" within the credits would be fine. Here we go:


"Serving the Dead"

(Horror / Mystery Game scenario, works from ~ 1930 to near future)

You are XXX, a private investigator from XXX in XXX. At least you call yourself a private investigator, but the jobs you get your hands on are far from satisfying. Taking pictures of cheating husbands and looking for runaway cats and dogs are your daily work, and the payment is hardly enough to make a living out of it. Almost every evening you`re sitting inside your office lonely, with a bottle of booze in front of your TV, watching shows you don`t like and ask yourself why you`ve quit your Job in the local police departement. One of these sad, depressing evenings, a knock at the door tears you out of your grief.
You`ve seen enough movies to know that this can only be some kind of super-attractive woman, with a high-risk, high-yield job offer.
Guess what - you`re wrong.

Your visitor is an old man, about 65 in age, wearing clothes that would have been elegant some decades ago, but are looking ridiculous right now. He`s pale, and a strange smell fills the air. Your cat flees with signs of panic, as the guest tells you that he wants to hire your services. In desperate need for money, you ask for details. He answers, with almost non-moving lips: "Homicide" and hands over an envelope. You take a quick look into it that shows some kind of newspaper article and a promising number of banknotes, speaking "I don`t know if I`m the right man for the job, how about the police...?"

Your sentence remains unfinished, as your visitor is gone. Your door is open, you run out of the building - but he was faster than you.
The envelope contains 1500 bucks, a sum quite generous and a newspaper article about a Professor XXX who has died in an accident somewhere outside the small town XXX in XXX. No picture, no date, no clues - and your customer is gone.
However, you`ve got an advance of 1.5k, reason enough to travel to XXX.

Arriving in the town, which is not more than a small village, the welcome is not friendly at all. The only one willing to talk to you is the barkeeper in the local inn, who tells you that the Prof. has exactely died 25 years ago, and that most people think that he was killed by some animal, as the corpse was in a horrible shape when they found it half on the way between the town and the remote hut of the professor - who had been very much into occultism. You take a look at the dollars and you realize, that they are very old prints - however, still valid for payments.
Curious, you ask if he has got a picture of the Professor, and the barkeeper indeed finds an old photograph taken by his father during a christmas party 30 years ago.

Of course, the Professor is noone else than your customer.

You are frightened, you are shaken, but an inner fire is ignited. For the first time in your life you face a real mystery, and for the first time since you left police you feel that you can do something really outstanding by investigating it. You leave your suitcase at the inn, telling the bar keeper that you`re going to the professors hut (which has been sealed right now for 25 years). Despite all the warnings, you drive to the hut and arrive in the late evening, with nothing more than your old colt...

Basic Ingame story progression (Contains spoilers, read only if you`re sure to make this game or not to playing it):



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FredP
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Posted: 25th Sep 2007 13:31
Moving this to Product Chat.

Please have mercy and use the search function.
Ertlov
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Posted: 25th Sep 2007 13:37
Perhaps a good idea, I thought it would be wrong in a "chat" section, too

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Shadow Blade
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Posted: 25th Sep 2007 21:17
Nice story. It would be cool if you made a competion were your givin a story (possibly that one) and you have to make it, best game wins. Anyway the story is great, good luck with this it's a great idea.

-Shadow Blade

Jeremiah
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Posted: 25th Sep 2007 21:19
Here is another story item for you.

You are sitting in your house alone as always. Watching tv and eating ramen noodles with dribble stains down your white wife beater. Suddenly a knock at the door shocks you to your feet, since well nobody ever wants to see you and nobody has visited you in 10 years.

When behold you see a beautiful sheep with big eyes standing at your door. She looks into your eyes and says and baa and you freakout. lock the door and hide beneath your bed. You start chanting to your self, I am not from missouri I am not from missouri.
Shadow Blade
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Posted: 25th Sep 2007 22:23 Edited at: 25th Sep 2007 22:24
What?



TGPEG
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Posted: 25th Sep 2007 22:49
Nice story.

Well it was a nice story. I nicked it now.

[center]
The all new EG Interactive Forums.
Johny English
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Posted: 25th Sep 2007 22:51
lol

SIXOFT - This is not just a game, this is a SIXOFT game.
xplosys
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Posted: 25th Sep 2007 23:14
There's no shame in seeking help, Jeremiah.

Best.

I'm sorry, my answers are limited. You must ask the right question.

Ertlov
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Posted: 26th Sep 2007 11:53 Edited at: 27th Sep 2007 10:51
The Lightbringer Mutany

(SciFi Scenario with postapocalyptic elements, suitable for shooters, adventures, RPG and even MMOG. Please contact us if you are serious in making a complex game based upon this story)


2052: Scientists discover a growing distortion within the magnetic fields of the sun. First calculations show that a dangerous increase of solar turbulences could occurr in the next decades.

2055: The joint examination team, consisting of the very best NASA, Russian and Chinese scientists, speaks in front of the UNO during a secret meeting of the worlds leaders. They had sent two probes to the corona of the sun, and after evaluating the results send to earth, their calculated model shows a horrible danger for earth and mankind: With a likeness of more than 92%, there will be hyper-turbulences, around the year 2078, sending so huge loads of radiation throughout our solar system, that most of the life in it will be wiped out. Gamma Rays with deadly potential will be sent out for weeks, if not months, and even if life could prevail, the technical infrastructure will be melted. The end of our civilisation is most likely to come.

2057: After talking and negotiating around for almost two years, the nations of the world unite in a pact called "Frozen Frontiers for survival", that bans all wars on our planets, setting the military budgets free for three different projects that shall guarantee the survival of mankind:


1. Project Prevention:


Five unmanned and two manned missions to the suns corona, with latest in Tesla Technology will try to get controll over the distortion in the magnetic field in order to prevent or at least lower the consequences.

2. Project Protection:

Engineers and highly skilled technicans all over the world are designing, building and improving bunkers, and they work on measures turning whole street blocks into secured areas. They also start developement of HighTech that is immune to radiation blasts and EMP effects.

Project Lightbringer:

The most expensive and ambitious project. In an high earth orbit, the space agencies from all over the world utilize the finest technology available on earth in order to built a generation ship:

The Lightbringer

is a huge generation ship, designed to accomodate more than 20.000 men and women on a journey to a star system called "Asylum", which was discovered and examinated by deep-space radiation telescopes in 2037 and shows signs of three different planets that could be colonized, with two of them actually providing a dense, oxygen-producing vegetation.
With the very best in human propulsion technology, speeding the Lightbringer up to 60% of Lightspeed, it will still take slightly more than 300 years (10 generations) for the crew to arrive.
There would be several nearer star systems with planets that are sufficient for colonization, some even in reach of a humans lifetime, but the decision was made:

If the lightbringer will be bear the last remains of mankind, it shall provide a new start for our civilization in the best environment possible - and that`s the Asylum system.

With 8000 passengers, selected from all over the earth based upon their physical and mental constitution, their intelligence and of course their fertility, the Lightbringer starts in 2072 its long, long journey to the stars. It takes more than 70% of the ultra-rare materials (Iridium, Wolfram...) from earth and a huge load of other valuable ressources with it, not only to provide the best start for the new human cilization, but also for the unlikely need of trading goods when encountering another civilization.


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

2185:

You are XXX, proud Guardian (a kind of security officer) serving on the bridge and in the science labs of the Lightbringer. Almost 15.000 inhabitants are now living, working, raising children and dying aboard the Lightbringer which has made about 37% of its way to Asylum, with 63 more to go.
The society onboard, the social structures and even the religious beliefs are highly affected and dominated by total devotion to the missions goal. Everyone is living in order to ensure that one day the descendants will reach Asylum, everything else is from minor interest. The people see themselves as chosen ones in a religious sense of meaning, and the mission officers are seen as high-priests of this beliefe. Every percent of the distance made, is celebrated in a huge party (once in 3 years), and all prayers are begging for safe journey and a prosperous future in the Asylum system. Earth is a fading memory, and the common sense is, that if someone has survived there, the civilization there is reduced to some remote habitats.

On the 21st of March 2185, during your first shift, you are standing on the bridge, close to the captains chair. Since you have reached the rank "Guardian 1st class", you have this honour twice a week. High Priest (Captain) Ijoko Harashi, a 55 yrs old, highly intelligent woman, is reading the reports, calculating alternative routes to bypass meteors and signing congratulation messages to all newborns, jumps of her seat as a red light turns on and a strange signal is heared, a signal you`ve never heard before.
It`s the incoming COM signal, that was last heared in 2078, when the radiation blast destroyed the earth` satellites.

In front of the Lightbringer, about 2000 yards ahead, a space distortion with same speed as the generation ship itself emerges. The bubble of local space time collapses, and a strange ship can be seen, a very elegant, shape, that is new even to the history officer, sitting on the bridge and staring as stupid into space as all others of the 32 men and women on the bridge. It`s a small ship compared to the lightbringer, but a beautiful construction.

"Here is Major John Sellers from the Earth Scout Ship Ikarus. Lightbringer, can you hear me?"

Shaken, trembling and overwhelmed, Harashi needs some minutes before answering.

"Here is Ijoko Harashi, High Priest of the Lightbringer. Identify yourself and your species! You can`t be from earth!"

A laughter is heard.

"Yes, M`am, I´m from earth, and I expected such an answer. The blast did come, and did quite a damage to our civilization. But Project Prevention and Project Protection did their jobs well, and we slowly recovered from the reset button that was pressed upon mankind. Most of our memory chips and data storages were gone, but we made it. 60 years ago a genius from India invented the STC, the spacetime compressor, allowing to work around the lightspeed limit. All nearby planets and systems, including Asylum, are now inhabitated or at least taken by first settlers."

With all of your beliefs shaken, all of your goals gone and the basement of your society destroyed, you stare at Harashi. She`s in no better condition than all of the bridges crew, but she answers.

"Allright, and what are we supposed to? We`ll need still almost 2 centuries to arrive..."

She is interrupted.

"My job was to find you, M`am, and I can tell you, that most of the people thought the Lightbringer, with all outdated technolgoy, was lost in space. Now I`ve to report that you`re still out there. I can`t tell what is thought off, but there are some problems. All STC ships are very small compared to the Lightbringer, our hugest vessels are carrying about 50 to 100 passengers each. So we can`t evacuate you all, at least not in a reasonable time. I`ll fly back to the next outpost and ask for some technicans to look after you and if they can power up your engines in order to reach the next colony in a decent time. Sellers Out."

~

Although Harashi has ordered strict confidence, the rumours are spreading fast, and three days after the encounter, the society onboard is crumbling. All of the beliefs, all of the higher goal is gone, and despari is spreading, dividing up the society. Some want to return to earth, some want to fly into Asylum, but most of the people want to reach the next human colony and abondon the now senseless life onboard the Lightbringer. Tensions are growing, and while the men and women in charge are still waiting for the next ship passing by or approaching, the Lightbringer is on the brink of Mutany, a civil war ahead.

It`s your job to maintain security and order, but it`s no easy job with people going mad and different interestz groups fighting each other onboard a spaceship.
In addition to that, Leyla Summers, the science officer who was in duty during the encounter, has revealed her theory to you:

In her believe, the encounter was not with human beings, but with an alien ship, pretending to come frome earth and faking a human voice. She has some very good arguments for that theory, as the central core of the Ships database seem to have been accessed from outside the ship, and the ressources onboard the lightbringer would be a perfect prey for any space pirate out there, no matter which species....

Examinate the facts, maintain order and peace onboard and reveal the true nature of the visitor!

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Johan_D
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Posted: 26th Sep 2007 19:09
Please continue, it reads as a good novel! love it.
Ill forget all about FPSC this way.

A little less conversation, and a little more action please!
fallen one
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Posted: 26th Sep 2007 21:56 Edited at: 26th Sep 2007 22:00
Ill give my overview of this as I've made dozens of pitches and wrote scores of background stories, though to be honest what you write has little to do with what gets published, these are games not books, in fact what will get published is what will be the least likely to lose the job of the guy in acquisitions who is making the decision, so the stories or backgrounds are not really important, after all, you are trying to convince in the end what is just a glorified accountant, stroke sales person, who would be just as happy selling washing powder as games, in fact they may well be doing that if they get the push, right, what I think to the story.

The meter or rhyme isn't the best, it reads a lot like it has been written by someone that English is not their first language, also all good writing really describes the symbolic, like dreams are symbols of our internal world, one should only write what is needed to convey the story, the story is a symbolic tale that represents an idea or concept, anything more is waffle or filler, read the works of Joseph Campbell, its rather fashionable to use him, but hey, myths are timeless, learn them and how they work, it gives an insight into story telling, but use it for that, an insight, not a 12 point plan or how every many parts of the journey you want to plagiarise.

Pus In Boots
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Posted: 26th Sep 2007 22:20
Hey... let's sticky this and everyone can post their story ideas!...no? No-one ever listens to me

Visit my IGN BLOG Give it a thumbs up. That's all...
Ertlov
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Posted: 26th Sep 2007 23:38 Edited at: 26th Sep 2007 23:46
@ Pus would be a good idea

@Fallen One

There is only one point where you`re right: English is not the first language of anyone here, as we`re located in Austria.

The rest of your post is...
...interesting.

For someone who claim to have such a professional background
Quote: ""I've made dozens of pitches and wrote scores of background stories""
your opinion seems more to be a reflection of cynicism and personal disappointments than a fact-based statement.

I remember you stated once that I´m not an indie developer, and after my response "take a look at the copyright line" (allright, a look at the official boards would have been enough) you never wrote again into the thread.
I know that it`s not easy to say "OK, I was wrong", and I hate doing that, too, so I`m not angry that you abandoned the thread after that.

I´m also not accusing you of something, I´m not saying that you are on some kind of personal crusade (
Quote: "you are trying to convince in the end what is just a glorified accountant, stroke sales person, who would be just as happy selling washing powder as games"
seems to indicate something like that).

However, 2 remarks:

1. We are not talking about selling a game, we are talking about a inspiration for all of those who are on the start and don`t want to come up with the same two-lines of story dozens had written before.

2. Stories ARE selling games, complex background scenarios are an essence and something necessary for motivation and fascination. Yes, gameplay is more important, but a story comes close after. A good background story, turned into a great intro, will tear the player deep into the game before he fires the first shot. Gametrailers released to the gamers sites increase the sales figures heavily. Game background and story progression documents of AAA games are about 50 + 250 pages of written text. I´ve been working (on the publishers side, you know, among those "glorified accountants") on dozens of AAA games and I can tell you that sometimes 5% of the budget goes directly into storytelling. Sometimes even additional, professional writers are hired.

By the way:

You mentioned Joseph Campbell - allright, I have a PhD in psychology and hundreds of serious published articles out there, and as much as I respect Campbell as a worthy successor of Jung, his work (and the one of similar Jung-followers) is one of the reasons why ancient transcriptions and texts are almost ALWAYS subject to a "mythic" interpretation, instead of taking ancient sources serious. This point of view, dripping into minds of archaeologists and historians, have thrown both those sciences back for decades.
If Heinrich Schliemann had lived 50 years later, under those influences, he would never have discovered Troja, and it will still take years (from now), if not decades, until the horrible "This must be a myth, not a historical description" approach will be pushed back to a reasonable level.

Campbell was not the first one to set up a theory of all-time, all-civilization myths, and he won`t be the last one, but implementing that theories into your work or even life without a certain healthy distance is quite dangerous.

Edit: Oh, I forgot something:
As much as I admire some viewpoints of Buddhism, I don`t like science and religion to be mixed up. And that`s what most of the "Campbell societies" are doing nowadays.

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Disturbing 13
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 00:20
With most of todays games being penned by big named writers I would think that a good story would almost be a necessity. Things have changed allot just in the last year so I support someone trying to help by providing a good backdrop for the game. I'm not saying I have the greatest story, but for my own project I have 10 years of writing and rewriting just to get the background just right, for a cutscene that may last 3 min but sets the mood for my whole game. This story thread idea is a great help to those who need it.


fallen one
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 00:33
Quote: "you never wrote again into the thread."


The receive emails to your mail message option doesn't work for me, its hard keeping track on the threads, when email notification doesn't come back.

Quote: "Yes, gameplay is more important, but a story comes close after."


I disagree, marketing is way up on the list, probably more important than the actual game, but I will say, you can market all you want, but you can't polish a turd, good games are still important though.

Quote: "on the publishers side, you know, among those "glorified accountants"


Publishers are sales, they don't make games, my appraisal of them is correct, go talk dev shop with them, you get blank stares, they are not creatives, they fund market and distribute.

Quote: "You mentioned Joseph Campbell"


I use Campbell to draw attention to symbolic representation, one should not scholarise too much if one wants to write, I say live life, don't read life, A good artist does not buy paint by numbers books on how to paint, they know it intrinsically.

Quote: "it will still take years (from now), if not decades, until the horrible "This must be a myth, not a historical description" approach will be pushed back to a reasonable level."


Do you know the best place to hide something, right in font of the eyes of the viewer, those who know how to look will know, those who are not supposed to know will not, the truth is in front of peoples eyes, they just don't know how to look.

fallen one
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 00:43 Edited at: 27th Sep 2007 02:21
Quote: "With most of today's games being penned by big named writers I would think that a good story would almost be a necessity."


I was asked to be lead level designer on Advent Rising, that had Orsen Scott Card writing the story, he wrote for Lucas Arts and he is a Nebula and Hugo award winner. I turned the job down as I was busy, can't say I fancied New Jersey much either, if it had been in Europe I may of felt differently, perhaps, but like I said I had other engagements, anyway, that games did lousy business and the publisher as a result had to downgrade considerably less expensive titles as a result as it hit them hard, so no I disagree, it would be great if it was true, but it isn't, go post this at any indie developer boards and see what they say, you will not hear how important the games success the game is on story, I've never heard it once.

BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 02:46
@Ertlov

Would you mind Changing the name of the project: "Project Exodus" in that story? Ive been developing a game with that name for just under 3 years now, and i would greatly appreciate it if you would.

You don't have to, im just saying i would REALLY appreciate that because as detailed and as interesting as your story is, its sure to get a great title behind it, and wouldn't want someone to confuse the 2

http://www.seqoiagames.com/seqoiacorp/
Ertlov
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 10:59
Bullshock 2: Changed

@Fallen One:

I wrote that I don`t like to admit being wrong. This time, I´ll do it. You indeed have a profound knowledge and an interesting background.

Quote: "he is a Nebula and Hugo award winner"


Well, Sam is a Goethe Acadamy Award winner, however, this is a different genre

Quote: "so no I disagree, it would be great if it was true, but it isn't, go post this at any indie developer boards and see what they say, you will not hear how important the games success the game is on story, I've never heard it once."


All right, and I disagree on that one. During my time in business I`ve seen three projects being rejected by two different Publishers because of lack of an interesting story. Two were RPGs, one SciFi action.
With my leaving the publisher business and turning into an indie developer myself, I certainly got new insights, some of them putting my experiences from publishing into a new light. However, most of the Users who bought "Anderson" and gave us Feedback, told that they bought it because of the scenario, the story and the trash factor.

Quote: "Do you know the best place to hide something, right in font of the eyes of the viewer, those who know how to look will know, those who are not supposed to know will not, the truth is in front of peoples eyes, they just don't know how to look."


You are right, and it`s a shame how blind highly educated scientists can be, would love to discuss with you about some topics.

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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 27th Sep 2007 17:18
Ertlov,

Thanks Greatly appreciated.

http://www.seqoiagames.com/seqoiacorp/
fallen one
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Posted: 6th Oct 2007 22:09
Quote: "Quote: "Do you know the best place to hide something, right in font of the eyes of the viewer, those who know how to look will know, those who are not supposed to know will not, the truth is in front of peoples eyes, they just don't know how to look."

You are right, and it`s a shame how blind highly educated scientists can be, would love to discuss with you about some topics."


I believe we may have the same interest in esoteric subject matters. What is interesting about research into esoteric, and by that I mean esoteric as in hidden, if it is hidden then by definition it is esoteric, is that it is like Russian dolls, one opens the doll to find another underneath, one thinks one has the whole thing, but one looks again, one finds seems, you prize them open and find another doll underneath, and then another, and yet another, just how deep does the rabbit hole go. Is it only on a need to know basis that one is invited on this journey, are the tickets to this journey by invite only, or can anyone take the trip if they can find the ticket office. One thing is for certain, once you leave you can never return.

Ertlov
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Posted: 8th Oct 2007 14:00
You also have forgotten to mention that parts of the trip, depending on the direction you take, may be very dangerous, putting a threat to your sanity, your social life, your acceptance among the society and so on...

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fallen one
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Posted: 8th Oct 2007 15:03 Edited at: 8th Oct 2007 15:07
Yes excellent I forgot that, how could I, or the fact that one doesn't look for evidence to belive its true, but evidence not to belive its true. It stares you in the face over and over but still you keep trying to deny it, eventually one runs out of excuses.

Quote: "depending on the direction you take"


Is the direction you take your own decision, or is it taken for you, one doesn't always have as much choice as one believes in life, sometimes the path is chosen for you.

Ragged Druid
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 06:04
Ertlov: mind if I yoink that story?

Fallen one: Are you insane? You passed up the opportunity to work with Orson Scott Card?
Will da gamr
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 08:20
Creative. Nice story.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Ertlov
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 10:29
These story ideas are given away as Public Domain, so feel free to use it...

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Butter fingers
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 12:56 Edited at: 9th Oct 2007 12:58
Fallen one.

I think you have some good ideas, but I find your habit of name dropping and "marketing babble" to be slightly annoying.

I'm not going to quote all this stuff you have written back to you. All I wanna say is this:

Ertlov started this thread to try and push less imaginative users to think outside the box with their story. This in my opinion can only be a good thing.

You then open up a tirade of information on how publishers don't care about story, they just want IP that will sell, etc etc. But really you're missing the point.

Publishers simply want an IP (intellectual product, not Internet Protocol) that will sell, that's why there are so many batman, spiderman, superman, fifa, CSi games and so on. They know that the consumer is familiar with the codes and conventions of the given medium, so it's easy to translate to game form.
I did my entire university disscertation on the subject, so I know you're right. Publishers are much more interested in Licencing an already marketable story than trying to sell a totally original one.

But I still maintain you're missing the point. If we look at how FPSC games are selling.... very few (if any) have ever found a publisher, and those that are for sale are mainly distributed by the developer, so there really is no need to impress a publisher.

The focus of the pitch for an FPSC user is not to sell their idea to a publisher, but to sell (by which I mean market) it to the end user. Therefore, one of their key selling points is the originallity and excitment caused by their story.

Also, I think that you're underestimating the importance of originality. If everybody conformed to the idea of impressing a publisher, we would never get anything new or interesting, just another formulaic title based around a movie, book or manga. It's when developers have the balls to step outside the box of conformism that we see truly exciting titles - like the Sims, Black and White, or GTA. These are some of the best selling original IP games of all time, and could never have been achieved if the developer hadn't decided to take a risk instead of churning out another halfbaked movie tie-in.

Ertlov, great post. I'll contrib a story soon.

rolfy
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Posted: 9th Oct 2007 15:50
Whats all the hullabaloo in here then?

Balderdash,balyhoo,broohaha,bric a brac,these are words with a 'b' this time.
They say that excessive use of alliteration is a sign of psychosis,so they say anyway.

Storytelling is a fundamental part of all cultures,it's what makes us what we are and shapes our very existence.

Having said that,I really think I'll just stay in my cave for a long time,things are taken way too seriously around here these days


Ragged Druid
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 00:49
Butter fingers: Advent Rising was one of the worst-selling games of all time and it was an incredibly original story penned by one of the most amazing writers of our time.

Quake, however, just retreaded old ground laid by Doom, and it sold incredibly well and is (to this day) one of the most popular FPS series of all time.

Thinking outside the box does not always help you.
fallen one
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 02:20
Quote: "Butter fingers: Advent Rising was one of the worst-selling games of all time and it was an incredibly original story penned by one of the most amazing writers of our time. "


Thats right, it hit the publisher Majesco very hard, they cut back to cheaper titles because of the bad business, and then what did they follow back with, a movie tie in with Jaws.

FredP
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 03:30
Quote: "Butter fingers: Advent Rising was one of the worst-selling games of all time and it was an incredibly original story penned by one of the most amazing writers of our time.

Quake, however, just retreaded old ground laid by Doom, and it sold incredibly well and is (to this day) one of the most popular FPS series of all time.

Thinking outside the box does not always help you."


This is the kind of thinking that keeps the big boys churning out the same old crap endlessly year after year and less and less original stuff comes out.
The compairson you make is unfair.
Advent Rising...great storyline...crappy execution of said storyline.
Quake VVVIIV (or whichever version we are up to)...storyline...who cares?It's Quake so it gets bought...execution of said game...nearly flawless.
How people thought and what box they were in had nothing to do with why the games sold differently.
Quake was fun to play and a good game.Advent Rising was not.That's why the games sold the way they did.
We all need to think outside the box a little (maybe a lot).If I'm going to churn out the same thing everybody else is I might as well go work at McDonald's and pump out Big Macs...I'd get the same satisfaction out of it...
I want to bring my vision out in what I create.All the cash in the world wouldn't make me as happy (though I could buy lots of cool toys) as bringing my vision to life.
If you want to see what good things thinking outside the box can do for you look at some of the stuff made by Butter fingers,Cheese Cake,Disturbing 13 and others.
I don't want the same old same old every day for the rest of my life and I don't see why anyone else would either.

Please have mercy and use the search function.
Storm 6000
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 15:40
Well said FredP couldn't agree more

Thanks
Adam
fallen one
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 19:31
Nice little web site article on designing games

What's Killing Game Development?

It's intrinsic to human nature, but the idea of focusing on a single issue or event, or at least a single cause, is rather limiting and usually results in an incorrect analysis of any given situation. Take for example the question “why are there so many game sequels?” There are a half dozen answers to it and they're all correct, but people are apt to focus on one or two and dismiss the rest. Moreover, the very question itself is limiting – we're only asking about game sequels. There are other, equally important questions that are related to the original – why do so many games fail? Why do publishers have increasingly more control of development? Why isn't there more innovation in games? What happened to the great designers like Sid Meier, where is the new generation? Believe it or not, all these questions are related and are best asked with “why is modern game development the way it is?”

here for full article
http://www.firingsquad.com/features/killing_game_development/

TGPEG
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Posted: 10th Oct 2007 19:59 Edited at: 10th Oct 2007 23:25
@ fallen one: you seem to be doing a lot of research today. Speaking of research, I'm going to upload the concept for EGI's new [as yet nameless] game that's coming out soon for some ideas for those struggling for a story for their game.

"Uponwith sainted vow my faults. Can bring this instrument of, and rich validity did lack a. To the next man that falls, I shall lose my life for his life itself. Till I have no life I, You for my respects are better."
this story will be used, so only use for ideas, do not nick it completely!
The Story
You wake up one morning in your small apartment as you usually would, get dressed, do your ablutions and get ready for work. As you turn off the light in your room, you notice that outside, it is still dark. This seems odd for a July morning, so you take a look outside your front door to see what's going on.

Nothing but blackness. You venture out into the cold mysterious wilderness, and a voice calls from behind you. Your house has gone. All that remains is your mangled corpse, at which point, a voice says; "For the man who dabbles in the graves of the many, have no mercy I. For he who bides his time and waits for death, have I plenty." You begin to run, off further into the black, the voice becomes nothing more than a whisper, and the blackness disappears.

You wake up by your car at work. You are in the car park, but you are all alone. You take the back way into work, and open the door into the undertakers office. You scream in horror. The place has been ransacked. Dead bodies of workers are strewn all over the room. Coffins have been overturned, and the place is a general mess. Written on the wall in blood, are the words:"Uponwith sainted vow my faults. Can bring this instrument of, and rich validity did lack a. To the next man that falls, I shall lose my life for his life itself. Till I have no life I, You for my respects are better."

From this point onwards, you basically have to give your life in 7 different ways to avenge their deaths, or alternatively, you can sacrifice the lives of seven others. I am hoping to do two separate storylines for this, interlinked with one another, using the same locations, albeit with different objectives for each.

In marriage for young Charbon, avail not about my death hath. Every braggart shall be found and with pen in hand. Why doctor she what pale again. My fear hath seen her wear it and she honourable personages than shallforth borrow for when you pass.

Coming soon...

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Bad Monkey
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 09:07
I really liked the first storyline. It'll work well with my new line of characters, "Cultists", after I am done with my robots of course.

thanks for the story
Butter fingers
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 18:24
Quote: "It's when developers have the balls to step outside the box of conformism that we see truly exciting titles - like the Sims, Black and White, or GTA. These are some of the best selling original IP games of all time, and could never have been achieved if the developer hadn't decided to take a risk instead of churning out another halfbaked movie tie-in."


to which you replied:

Quote: "Butter fingers: Advent Rising was one of the worst-selling games of all time and it was an incredibly original story penned by one of the most amazing writers of our time.

Quake, however, just retreaded old ground laid by Doom, and it sold incredibly well and is (to this day) one of the most popular FPS series of all time.

Thinking outside the box does not always help you."


Actually, I think you just further proved my point. I love quake, and it was much more than just an addition to Doom. It broke alot of ground in terms of its design.
for example It was one of the first games to be truly 3D. You could actually have floors on top of each other, water you could swim in etc. Oh yeah, and the best multiplayer of it's time (something that doesn't need story)

Quake, at it's time of release, was the most advanced FPS. Therefore, it's designers had thought outside the box.

By picking one (slightly tenuous) example to try and disprove me, isn't really the way forward. As I said before, I'm not trying to give an overview of the entire market, and how it should be approached. I'm just saying that I think this thread is a good idea. And that FPSC users trying to create something original (in story or gameplay), can only be a good thing.

fallen one
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 18:34 Edited at: 11th Oct 2007 18:40
If you was going to make a comparison to Advent Rising to Quake, pick Q4.

Quote: "And that FPSC users trying to create something original (in story or gameplay), can only be a good thing."


Are you talking hobbyists, or commercial project here. If its commercial, then story in fpsc is the least of your worries.

Butter fingers
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 18:53
Quote: "Are you talking hobbyists, or commercial project here. If its commercial, then story in fpsc is the least of your worries."


Of for the love of Jesus, Ghandi and Father Christmas!

I'm talking about hobbyists dude, because from the looks of things thats what the vast majorety of us are. Like 99% I would estimate.

How can story possibly be the least of your worries. I can't picture how you're going to make a pitch without it.

Here's me with no story at my publishing meeting:



Without a story, you got nothing. FPSC will not compete in the commercial market on any kind of hardware or gameplay level.

I'm not saying you can't sell a game without a story, heck I love Gears Of War as much as anyone, what I'm saying is, in the commercial market (that you keep banging on about) FPSC will not impress aesthetically, and it's AI isn't great. It doesn't even have particle effects. Probably the most powerful tool you have to sell an FPSC game is an intriguing storyline.

TGPEG
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 20:08
@Butters; Good point. No story=no game.

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fallen one
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 21:05 Edited at: 11th Oct 2007 21:29
So free games then, even from a story point, if you want downloads of your game, you are still going against the free mods, that look real slick, that also have a big catchment, like all the people that bought the original game,( but to fpsc defense, you own your fpsc game, which is its pull, that and its ease of use for beginners to games creation of course) so anyway you will have to do more than tell a story, you will have change the look of the game, experiment that way, like make it look like a graphic novel, or a Frank miller drawing or something different like that, as the dx9 renderer looks a bit dated, may be a bit better if the shaders worked in dx9, as it stands I personally would not try to make it look realistic at all as it fails, go for stylised instead. Thats your seller, or your free download, in this case its USP, is its graphic style or experimental look that makes it unique.
A working toon shader would be a good thing for fpsc in that respect.

We can use a scientific method to look at this, take a look at the download figures for a fpsc game with great story, compare them with a flashy mod with great visuals but not so much story, comapre the downloads of these 2, see what the figures are.
Theres your answer.

Just looking at FPSC Showcase / The Best of the Best.
I clicked the links and all bar the last one took me to file planet.

DARKEST ISLAND
Downloads 544

The Fall of the Fireflies demo
Umbra
cant find working link for either at file planet.

SpiderZ
Downloads 409

Demon Sun
downloads 36

Less downloads for Demon Sun, may of been a fresh upload, or be hosted at other places. Perhaps these files are listed at other places, but no mirrors are on the BOTB thread so I just went of what I found.

To do a good test we need to know which of these is high in story, then compare with the figures for mods. A working link on BF games would help with the test as well.

TGPEG
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Posted: 11th Oct 2007 23:50
Quote: "To do a good test we need to know which of these is high in story, then compare with the figures for mods. A working link on BF games would help with the test as well."

How would you get a fair figure on how much the story takes part int the game?

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Lightning Bolt Studios
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Posted: 12th Oct 2007 03:16
My 2 cents, bottom line- all FPS games need a story behind them so you the player know why your there and what your fighting for! Without a story all you have is a bunch of game characters shooting at you and for what reason. This is a good example of originality BioShock, this game was totally original (outside the box) and one of the best games I played in a long time and it has a good story behind it? And last time I checked I believe sold allot of copies. I just thought I’d throw that out there.
FredP
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Posted: 12th Oct 2007 03:44
Throwing a game together that has no story would have worked in the old days...and even then most arcade games were given a story (however lame) when ported to whatever home console.
Video gamers have grown smarter,more sophisticated,and much more demanding over the last few years and this trend will continue.
The storyline I developed for my main project is quite complicated and is different from anything out there...and if you've seen my work you know that's true.
I bought FPSC so I could make my game my way...

Here's a story for you...

You are a gas station attendant.Your job sucks (trust me on this...I used to run a gas station).You hate life.You have been waiting for a reason to explode for a long time and one little thing would push you over the edge.
Then the guys wearing ski masks come in...unfortunately they are about to find out they picked the wrong gas station and they have lit the fuse that makes you explode as you whip out the gun from underneath the counter,slaying all three before they even have a chance to react...
One of them whispers something in his dying breath...they work for a crime syndicate.
A smile crosses your face as you reload.
It's time to hunt this filth down and exterminate it...making the world safe for all who have to work at a gas station.

Please have mercy and use the search function.
fallen one
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Posted: 12th Oct 2007 05:13 Edited at: 12th Oct 2007 05:32
FredP
call it Spree Kill.

Reminds me of that game Postal, haven't played it, but remember a few write ups when it went around, I like comedy in games, its often underused, video games are so Flash Gordon yet take themselves so serious, that's what I liked about the game MDK2, someone should make a game like that Peter Jackson film he did at the start of his career, Bad Taste, that was a fun movie, I like crazy weird as well, off the wall, games in the 80s had comedy in them, but what with all the money at stake in games now, they present themselves as serious, even though they are a little on the cheesy side, they just don't recognise it in themselves..

Quote: "Throwing a game together that has no story would have worked in the old days"

I don't know, Quake 3 didn't really have a big story, just that some thing had brought the best fighters together for a tournament, that's it really, still was a fun game, actually I would of liked more story with that as I like the Quake universe.

Speaking of ID, I just found out that ID software have released the source to Q3 under GPL, wow how cool is that, its a nice solid engine. You can count on a community to release upgrades on the engine to give it the graphic features of modern games engines, plus under the GPL license it has to be public, which is great for developers, still fpsc does have a large user database of add ons for you to use and is the easiest engine to level design for, that's fpcs niche, but for other users that want an engine for uses outside of that, what a great opportunity ID has given, I have to really respect that, I can think of other technology makers out there that would see hell freeze first before they give out their engines to the public for free.

Will da gamr
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Posted: 12th Oct 2007 07:16
This is absolutely intense arguing. I don't think any of us could convince others, but just educate them. Comparing story and gameplay is like comparing Wii and PS3. Both are great however, they have differant viewpoints on video games (gameplay/graphics).

I find your lack of faith disturbing.
TGPEG
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Posted: 12th Oct 2007 21:17
I am deliberately not going to say anything about the above post.

Storylines are essential in any modern game nowadays. While arcade racers in the mid - 80's may have got away with storylines back then, videogaming has since then taken off in a big way.
Take a look at videogaming in Britain; Sales of consoles, PC and Console games account for £10 billion to the British economy, and the gamers of Britain expect multimedia for their money. It's all about the progression of the industry, and people will not buy a game about shooting bad guys. As Butters pointed out earlier, Publishers will not publish a game without a storyline, as it cannot make money in today's market. That's why even the most basic games today have a storyline of some description.

Take Gran Turismo, for example. The storyline here involved a man who collected cars and raced in Tournaments all round the world. It wasn't much of a story, but it gives the game some purpose.

The long and the short of it is, people buy games for the story. It makes it more visceral, to actually feel a connection and some empathy towards the character. I feel more empathy towards Lara Croft than I do Pac-Man, but there we go.

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fallen one
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Posted: 12th Oct 2007 21:37 Edited at: 12th Oct 2007 21:39
These stories in video games, very high brow, high art, they even constantly talk about them on culture shows on UK TV, like, The Art Show, The South Bank Show, The Culture Show, they just cant get enough of the high culture and complexity in them.
Hell even the Booker Prize is thinking, why are we writing all these bad books, video games is where all the great works of fiction are at, I hear they insist on not recognising the great works of fiction in video games purely out of envy, the evil swines

Quote: "I feel more empathy towards Lara Croft than I do Pac-Man, but there we go."

Your sick, thats just plain wrong.

TGPEG
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Posted: 12th Oct 2007 21:54
Quote: "Quote: "I feel more empathy towards Lara Croft than I do Pac-Man, but there we go."
Your sick, thats just plain wrong."


Joking.

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