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Geek Culture / I'm thinking of making an easy game creator like darkbasic

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kfoong
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Posted: 9th Jun 2003 16:24
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hello all,

I'm thinking of making an easy game creator, like darkbasic or Game Maker. I know very little of C++ but I am determined to make one. My dad is an experienced C++ programmer and he works for a large company (telstra). Even he says that it would be very complicated and hard to make. He says for me to wait for university but I cannot wait. Right now he is teaching me C++. I will learn and make the project. Once I finish my RPG that is shown in the beta announcements, I will start this humoungous project.

P.S. It will be a 3D creator. I don't have a name for it yet, no wait I think... yes... Dark Maker... lol.
Heh heh... Mule...
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 9th Jun 2003 17:09
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T3DGM by DBS themselves didn't do too well, and i believe that Kangeroo2 is currently working on a pretty blinding piece of Software in this field.

so wish you luck if you go ahead with it

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 9th Jun 2003 18:02
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hmmm, aren't we all

l8r,
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 9th Jun 2003 22:46
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Blindin'

Thanks! lol Yup I'm making similar things, but good luck to any1 else with similar ideas

Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes, They got them hoppy legs & twitchy little noses,
And what's with all the carrots? What do they need such good eyesight for anyway?
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Ian T
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Posted: 9th Jun 2003 22:52
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May I ask... *why*? I just don't see why it's neccessary...

--Mouse

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Jun 2003 00:33
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Quote: "hmmm, aren't we all"

lol... i'm perfectly happy to simply upgrade other's languages - sod making my own developer, too many hassles and headaches

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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Jonny_S
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Posted: 10th Jun 2003 00:48
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I dont see the point. Making a language is hard! and a 3d games creator just well you could try

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 10th Jun 2003 01:05
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You are going to make a rival product to DarkBASIC and you have the nerve to advertise it on their bandwidth !? LOL - you got balls boy i'll give you that.

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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 10th Jun 2003 16:16
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"May I ask... *why*? I just don't see why it's neccessary..."

Well look at some of the noobs who come on these forums expecting to make ood games with no effort and no intention to graft learning programming basics. It'd make them happy and stop them getting abused by actual programmers on boards Also my products export to code anyway so if they want to learn programming or add to them they can

Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes, They got them hoppy legs & twitchy little noses,
And what's with all the carrots? What do they need such good eyesight for anyway?
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Ian T
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Posted: 10th Jun 2003 17:53
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Well, although I tend to be noob-friendly, I have to say I have no tolerance for sheer stupidity. If someone comes onto the boards asking 'Hey, how do I achieve this effect?' or even 'Well how do I do this???' then I'm pretty friendly. But people who ask 'WHERE ARE DA CODEZ???????????????', frankly, deserve what's coming to them. There's nothing wrong with ignorance, there's everything wrong with stupidity.

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actarus
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Posted: 10th Jun 2003 17:57
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-Well, although I tend to be noob-friendly, I have to say I have no tolerance for sheer stupidity

I'm impressed by the level of your respect.

Must be hard to tolerate yourself as well.

Running away You're lost for words again Now you`ve got all what you wanted Are you really satisfied?
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Jun 2003 20:37
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Quote: "Well, although I tend to be noob-friendly, I have to say I have no tolerance for sheer stupidity"


surely that is a contradiction in terms? hehee

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kfoong
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 10:23 Edited at: 11th Jun 2003 10:24
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Well I may be a noob for C++ but I am not a newb for DarkBasic (I Hope). I doubt I will rival DarkBasic anytime soon. DarkBasic was created by an experienced programmer (if not experienced, then more experienced than me!), and it took him 4 years I think. My dad is teaching me about C++ classes now. Heh I know classes relatively well but only in darkbasic, not so well in C++ . But I'm learning .

[EDIT] Anyway Raven what is T3DGM by DBS mean?

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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 13:02
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t3dgm = The 3d Game Maker = http://the3dgamemaker.com

I'm afraid in my opinion it looks good but is a wasted oportunity Mind you its a good starting block for if they release a second product, it only needed a few improvements to make it really usable

dbs = simply, Dark Basic Studios / Dark Basic Staff

Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes, They got them hoppy legs & twitchy little noses,
And what's with all the carrots? What do they need such good eyesight for anyway?
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kfoong
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 13:55
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Oh that game, I tested it out, trying out the demo, IMAO it was horrible. Kangaroo2 if you have any tips on this can you help? (I'm currently stuck in the making the compiler stage)

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Jonny_S
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 17:41
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Well IF you do it you can ramn it down my thoat but until then Im going to remain cinical. Nothing personal mate, just my view.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 18:21
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Learn C++ along with DirectX for this kinda task is an undertaking and a half ... mainly because creating the EXEs is going to be a bitch to achieve.

the information is probably out there on howto make C & C++ compilers and you could probably base your language on them, but to actually achieve it - all i can say is good luck because DB Standard was only an interpreter to begin with not a compiled language.
and i think without some decent knowlage of DirectX with C++ behind you, then really shouldn't even attempt anything like this.

I though your wanted to make some kinda drag'n'drop game editor

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actarus
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 18:34
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Isn't DB easy enough for everyone?I doubt it's not.

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kfoong
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Posted: 12th Jun 2003 05:39
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Well I am going to attempt it anyway, even if it takes more than a year to make the compiler

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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 12th Jun 2003 11:59
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Well, I think it's somewhat debatable that DB (the language) is really all that easy. Sure, the built in functions give you a fair amount of visual bang for your buck, but the language it'self is missing so many common place commands and abilities, for it to be truly a flexible beginners language. Which places a lot of unessecary burdun upon new programmers.

l8r,
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 12th Jun 2003 15:35
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I love Dark Basic Pro, simply because it enables me to make great games a whole lot quicker than I could in C++ and Direct X. However I seriously doubt that its an easy games creator for children or users without programming experience, but SOME of the marketting material sugests that it may be - therefore we get many people coming hree with neither the time nor patience to learn any programming language, regardless of how simple. This is where easy game creators come in. The limitations with them are that there is only so much flexibility for users, and no option to add real code of your own or export to code should you wish to in the future. My products re-address these problems

Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes, They got them hoppy legs & twitchy little noses,
And what's with all the carrots? What do they need such good eyesight for anyway?
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actarus
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Posted: 12th Jun 2003 16:06
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UW I agree but the built-in functions is good for newbies,ultimately you will want to define much more than what they give you....Like you do.

I'm not a big pro but I know the free-flight commands suck and that's what I mean when I say DB is easy to program in,even I who hate maths could code a decent flight control and mouselook using my limited and very basic knowledge of them...But I know there's about a hundred ways you could do it better than how I do it.

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kfoong
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 03:44
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aww... yesterday my dad told me that to make a compiler, you need to learn assembler. Is this true? If so I am still willing to learn the language.

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indi
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 09:05
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what happened to your 8 week rpg. ????????? hmmmmmmmmm

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kfoong
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 11:08
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I'm still working hard on it, as I said earlier, I will do this project after I finish the RPG.

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kfoong
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 15:41
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Why hasnt anyone answered my question? I need to know!

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Eric T
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 15:56
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you mean assembly not assembler lol

I always win don't you know that?
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 16:21
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Raven - "T3DGM by DBS themselves didn't do too well"

By who's standards? It still sells strongly even today.

"aww... yesterday my dad told me that to make a compiler, you need to learn assembler. Is this true? If so I am still willing to learn the language."

To make a half-way decent compiler, sure. To make a programming language, no.

yusuuke - "you mean assembly not assembler lol"

He was correct to say assembler in that context. If he'd said "you need to learn assembler language" then that'd be wrong, then it becomes "assembly language". But there's nothing wrong with the way he phrased it.

Not that I can ever see this getting beyond a brain storm mind you, but that's a different story.

Cheers,

Rich

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actarus
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 16:27 Edited at: 13th Jun 2003 16:27
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An assembler assembles assembly...That's it right?



Raven - "T3DGM by DBS themselves didn't do too well"

By who's standards? It still sells strongly even today


Honda Civics sell alot too...

Modeling Tip of the Week:Keep away from the infamous frog dissection pose!
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 17:25
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I didn't say it was good I just said it still sells. And it does.

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 17:42
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"I didn't say it was good I just said it still sells." lol

Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes, They got them hoppy legs & twitchy little noses,
And what's with all the carrots? What do they need such good eyesight for anyway?
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Van B
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 18:23
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Kfoong,

Why not make a really sturdy RPG engine, then market that - along with a supplied RPG game?

You would'nt need assembly or C++ - just a nice simple script language to handle the logic, editors etc, and a lot of media. Put this way - people looking for a 3D game creation language find DB, your language would'nt be able to compete - but a nice RPG construction kit might do really well. It's all in the approach mate, get your ideas down and imagine the ideal system to make your RPG in, then make it. Covering every game type in a creator is not really feasible.

As for T3DGM, well - I was a beta tester on it, and being a coder, would'nt really use it for anything big. I gave my free copy to a mate, and he loves it - we can't judge it because we're mostly coders here, but for those who can't code it's a damn fun product.


Van-B

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actarus
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 18:26 Edited at: 13th Jun 2003 18:27
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Why do you always have to be so fair Van...It sux,say it, let it all out

I can feel your anger,strike me down and the powers of the dark side shall be yours.

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Van B
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 18:51
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LMAO!!!

NONONONONO!!!!

I won't hear a word against my precious T3DGM.

I honestly do think it's cool for people who don't want to code - I used to spend weeks on SEUCK, I reckon kids still like making stuff that impresses most people. Show it to us coders and you'll get mostly sniggers, but show it to an 8 year old and they'll be sticking wheels onto nazi's till bedtime .

Don't worry, if the FPS creator does'nt shape up - I'll let them have a piece of my mind .


Van-B

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 19:11
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Quote: "aww... yesterday my dad told me that to make a compiler, you need to learn assembler. Is this true? If so I am still willing to learn the language."


if you need to ask this question then you don't know enough to even attempt this - sorry to try and burst the bubble, but making a language + language compiler isn't the same as making a full DirectX Product ... believe me when i say you need a bloody good understanding of the language your using to develop something of this nature, because even simplistic operators are a HUGE undertaking for your own langauge to make sure they work on the end-user system - particularly cross platform development, it takes alot more than you'd realise behind the scenes.

Even creating an interpreter language for something like DarkBASIC Pro so that you can extend it or make it even simpler to use would be a great undertaking which would require you to know DBP as well as most of the top programmers here.
I would strongly suggest you either change your idea or just leave it to people who know what they're doing.

it might be brutal to say it, but you can't possibly think 1week of C++ being taught by your dad & knowlage of assembly is enough.
I'm sure you could be a competant coder and your dad is a good teacher, but he should've carefully explained just how much work this will take ... it takes people years just to learn C++ enough to create games, let alone something on this level of complexity which requires knowlage of alot more than just the language.

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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 22:33
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Raven - I agree with what you're saying, but I think learning code from a father is a good way to bond and laern at the same time. Who knows, it could spark an interest, and in 5 to 10 years he'll be very capable of doing as he's thinking now Good luck to him

Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes, They got them hoppy legs & twitchy little noses,
And what's with all the carrots? What do they need such good eyesight for anyway?
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Shadow Robert
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lol probably Sam, i wouldn't know about any of that father bonding stuff - me & mine are kinda distant if you know what i mean.
i'm not against him being taught by his dad or that he should stop being taught ... but going from knowing nothing to making a language compiler there is jumping in the deep end then there's jumping into the centre of the atlantic ya know

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Solidz Snake
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 23:50 Edited at: 13th Jun 2003 23:50
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my lil' bro & lil' sis luv T3DGM, but now my bro is luving DBP.
God.. they luv my credit card too

Snake? What happened? Snake? Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!!! - Colonel Roy Campbell

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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 14th Jun 2003 01:22 Edited at: 14th Jun 2003 23:36
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[snip!]

Sorry, after some thought I decided to remove this post, simply because although it was a bad thing my dad did, he's still family and I don't want to bad-mouth him so publically, especially with Fathers day 2morro

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Kevin Picone
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"aww... yesterday my dad told me that to make a compiler, you need to learn assembler. Is this true? If so I am still willing to learn the language."

No, it's not necessary requirement. Although it largely depends on what objectives you have in mind. If you wish to produce a compiler to output binaries directly.. well, then were talking either writing the binary (machine code) directly or outputting the translated 'basic' tokens into assembly and then compiling this temporary src into the binary with an assembler. In this situation you'd need to fairly versed in assembly.

By going the "Basic Source code" to "Byte Code" (tokenised) and then translating the byte code tokens into a target language route, like perhaps Assembly, C or Delphi .. You can build a language with even the simplest knowledge of the target language that can produce binaries. This is possible as the compiled code is merely a highly simplified/ordered set of very limited instructions. If you or anybody put their mind to it, obtaining a level of understanding required is not unobtainable for anybody.

In relation to an gfx/sound engines. Your best bet is to use a freeware / shareware / licenseware engine. Once your familiar with it's use. You can easily create wrappers for this engine and thus bringing it's ability into your languages command/function set. DBpro itself, makes for an good analogy here. While DBS developed the engine and compiler themselves. This is exactly how their compiler works.

But before getting too far ahead of yourself. No matter what language you choose to write your compiler in, the key issue is being able to write code that can resolve an expression (formula's) into a series of steps to which it can be easily solved. This is the pivotal component of your compiler. If you can overcome this hurdle, the building the command set really rather trivial.

l8r,
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kfoong
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Making a compiler seems too hard, maybe I'll go with making an interpreter instead. [b])

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kfoong
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Now here is the problem, which one do I use OpenGL or DirectX?

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Shadow Robert
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upto you... if you got for OpenGL you'll also need to find Networking APi, Sound APi, Multimedia APi, create your own format setup, loader, create buffering code for use with current Graphical technology ... link the libraries ... etc, etc ...

OpenGL is far easier to understand & setup than DirectX i'll grant it that, but thats only because Microsoft are really weird about how they set everything up - but atleast you know that a single function doesn't have to be rewritten for specific hardware.
Personally i see OpenGL more as a pure base 3D & 2D Architecture Engine with Driver Support, but you'll end up needing a 3rd party Driver Support to standardise it properly.

ya know what i wouldn't mind seeing is actually basic language which has the depth that C has just with basic syntax, i don't give a flying monkies about just being able to create a cube in a single command ...
i mean not to sound ungrateful about DB being a games developer, but i hope to god that the next version will actually step it as an actual language rather than just a fancy engine.

Don't get me wrong it is a great language, just having it focusing too much on the 3D Aspect and functions rather than getting a working core set of function with extended versatility ... i personally think sorting that side of things out would be better.

you can do so much more with something like



i mean that would be eternally better than all of the 3DMath no?
dunno guess i'm just ramblin' but i'd much prefer Type passing & Arrays in Types over DBO format ... probably just me but thats what i'd prefer to see than to Octrees and CSG

ho well eh - the majority here are people who only want the 3D, so those of us who want pure code extending abilities will most likely be overlooked to please the masses

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kfoong
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sorry I dont get what you mean... [b])

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