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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Patch 5

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Jinxen
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Posted: 9th Jun 2003 21:55
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Hi...

any one know when the next patch gets available for
us hungry coders?..

and pls!! fix the 3ds problem and the ******* bsp problem.. haha
it's a bit frustrating...

Thanks /Mathias
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Rob K
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Posted: 9th Jun 2003 22:25 Edited at: 9th Jun 2003 22:28
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Which BSP problem are you referring to?

The beta is due to be released to DBDN members on Thursday. Personally though, I'd rather wait another 3 or 4 weeks for more bug fixes, not just "catagory A" ones.

Sigh, this is bound to come up, so what is in the new patch so far:

- Bug fixes
- DBP moved to DirectX 9
- DX9 Shaders
- Low-level Vertex Access
- (Multitexturing) ?
- Alpha setting

there is some node tree stuff in there but whether it will be in P5 I don't know.

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Duffer
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Posted: 12th Jun 2003 01:53
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any new commands planned for Patch 5...

will we finally have Load Object, Save Object and Append Object working with the mythical .dbo file format? will we have the .dbo file format?

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Jun 2003 02:40
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didn't anyone notice they snuck "Save Object" into p4?
i was scanning through it noticed that you could save objects, which is something i'd missed from DB ... so you can edit objects in memblocks and then save them, you load them and they have the effects stored

i know its stupid but i kinda was a little excited when i found out what it could do hehee

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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Rob K
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Posted: 12th Jun 2003 02:43
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"any new commands planned for Patch 5..."

Where is the family brain cell staying?

As I said before, there are new commands for Vertex Access, Alpha, One or two new mapping effects, DX9 Shaders, and possibly CSG. Nodetrees are an unknown.

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Great Knight
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Posted: 12th Jun 2003 06:19
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Does that mean I need direct x 9. Does that mean the people that dl my applications i make and games will need that. I still think direc x 8.1 is fine because most poepl I know dont even have 9.0 and if they needed 9 then they might be a little mad and might not bother dl it.

AMD Atherlon 2400+ XP, 380 DDr memeory, ATI Radeon 9000 64 DDR.

And a Katana.
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indi
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Posted: 12th Jun 2003 08:43
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new constructive geometry commands should be in place if all goes well with mikes work bsp editing feature extreme or something very groovy in game like the removal of x file model parts with an intersecting sphere simulating an explosion.

remember the ground was removed in the movie terminator like a cut sphere, something like this would be totally possible with that command if your land was x file based.

http://www.lunarpixel.com

http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
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FieldDoc
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Posted: 12th Jun 2003 10:22
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I hope they fix the mystical 'disappearing code' bug that occurs when you roll up the function above in the IDE

Life is like a penis:
When it's soft you can't beat it, when it's hard you get screwed.
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 12th Jun 2003 11:04
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No IDE updates...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Rob K
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Posted: 12th Jun 2003 12:33
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@FieldDoc

DBS did not make the IDE, it was written by DBP's American distributor. DBP Patches will not affect the IDE in any way. BTW. Have you updated to the latest version (1.0.9.2) of the editor?

You will NEED DX9 with P5. All the libraries have been moved over to DX9.

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 12th Jun 2003 13:03
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Have they been renamed fron xdebug.dll ?

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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FieldDoc
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Posted: 12th Jun 2003 13:09
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@ RobK,
Yeah, I have the latest patch.....I have been told that whoever do make the IDE are aware of the problem but I have no idea when they will fix it!!

Life is like a penis:
When it's soft you can't beat it, when it's hard you get screwed.
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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 12th Jun 2003 17:57
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Noo, DX9?

Why bother, it should be all compatible anyway DX9 contains DX8 stuff so it should not matter?

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
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Rob K
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Posted: 12th Jun 2003 17:59
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DX9 for DX9 shaders.

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 13:36
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Can we get some serious testing in Patch 5...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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DMXtra
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 14:03
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Patch 5 brings DirectX 9 with unified support for shaders, both CG and directX .FX files are supported.

This will be the last big architectural change for a while(until DBW format at least).

Only major bugs will be killed for this release. The reason for Patch 5 besides directx 9 and shaders is to put a brand new public demo out of DBPro.

Patch 6's big features are 85-90 percent complete, supposed to be released soon after Patch 5.

Patch 6 (Upgrade 6 as its being called) Major features...

1) Too be release not too long after Patch 5, you shouldn't have to wait too long for this one as a lot of work is already done.
2) CSG commands added (Add, Subtract, Intersection) with low poly primitives or high poly DBO objects. Works in realtime and with fast speeds.
3) Nodetree system (Octrees) with advanced portal system to build worlds. This is to replace DBClassic's static objects.
4) Advanced Lightmap system (not yet started, research mode right now).
5) Low level DBO vertice/poly control (not started yet).
6) Major bug fixes for this release

There may be other features, but they have not been revealed just yet and this is a feature list of Patch 5 and 6, things can change in the future, but this is where its currently at.

Dark Basic Pro -- The luxury for game programmers everywhere
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Rob K
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 14:12
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P5 is a feature patch not a bug fix patch

I used to think that DBDN members were to blame for the patches being buggy, having seen the other side, I can now say that is not true.

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DMXtra
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 14:43
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Well lee said that mainly major bug fixes will be fixed in Patch 5. Like AAA bugs that are big will need fixing, but the priority is Patch 6 to be the real bug fixes.

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IanM
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 14:58
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Vindication at last! See? It's not us - or at least, not *just* us

The original view was that Patch 5 would be the bug-fix patch IIRC. I can already hear the sound of people sharpening their knives...
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Ermes
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 17:49
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well, the best thing they can do, it's to fix bugs without making other bugs!!!!!!!!!!

Free Download for a Free World
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Rob K
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 18:36
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To be honest, P4.1 is acceptible as far as the 3D engine goes, not as good as it should be, but workable. The compiler is another matter, highlighting the wrong line for a syntax error, identifying the wrong problem, doesn't check for key words in the wrong places, mistakes with functions etc. etc.

Sigh - Hopefully in the creation of FPSC Lee has found and fixed a few bugs

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IanM
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 19:05
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It's the compiler fixes I'm waiting for. Try this:



As long as simple stuff like this stays broken, it makes it really difficult to put programs together. I suspect that a lot of code that mysteriously stops working is dowm to a little thing like this.

I've forgotten how long ago I reported this one to lee
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Rob K
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 19:34
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Report it again.

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 13th Jun 2003 20:34
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Indeed - Most of the problems I've found are due to compiler problems. The rest are either editor problems or me...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Duffer
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Posted: 14th Jun 2003 02:25
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@ RobK & Raven,

Point taken... but...

Sorry to keep harping on about this but although Save Mesh is a command recognised under patch 4.1, save object is not...

from the view of a complete ignoramus (me) it seems a bit of a waste not having load object, save object and append object working with a bona fide new .dbo file format as a basic 'given' for patch 5 before adding the more esoteric shader commands...etc. etc.

there's just so much more we 'BASIC for the masses' people could do with .dbo and Save Object... it was promised...

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Rob K
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Posted: 14th Jun 2003 13:53
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SAVE OBJECT is in P5 - it was not supposed to be in P4.1.

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Duffer
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Posted: 15th Jun 2003 10:39
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@ Rob K,

excellent!

what will SAVE OBJECT save? (and dont just reply "Objects")

ie. will it save the animation data? will it save the texture data?

do tell...

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Rob K
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Posted: 15th Jun 2003 12:32
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Sorry, I'm not sure. The DBDN beta has not been released yet, so all I can say is the commands that have appeared in the 3D DLL that came with the latest tech demo.

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Duffer
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 00:10
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Rob K,

Thanks for that - even if Save Object saves the static object with all limb data that will be a massive jump forward...
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Oliver
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 00:21 Edited at: 16th Jun 2003 00:22
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Will there every be a command like object intersect for BSP's. (This is slightly related to patches and all )
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Jinxen
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 02:46
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damn many have posted

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Fallout
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 04:05
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I have been waiting so long for one key bug fix. I haven't touched dbpro in around 6 months, except to dabble.

I will take all my clothes off and praise jesus when I can finally rotated a *!(***!* object properly. How all you people have got by without properly working free-flight rotation, I have no idea. What are you all making??? Scrabble?!?!!?

Machine: P4 2200, 1GB RAM, GeForce4 64MB, Audigy Platinum
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(It's not all about the coding)
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Rob K
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 12:45 Edited at: 16th Jun 2003 12:45
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Which Free-Flight rotation commands don't work, they seem OK for me?

Do you mean XROTATE OBJECT

or the TURN OBJECT LEFT / RIGHT commands?

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Fallout
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 17:26
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Xrotate, yrotate and zrotate object. The problem is, when you rotate an object on the x or y axis, and then attempt to rotate it on the z-axis, it's messed up. Its all screwed up, because it rotates the object on the worlds z-axis, rather than the objects z-axis. This seems to happen in both rotating techniques.

Write a bit of code to y-rotate a box object 45 degrees from 0, then zrotate it. It should role around, end over end, relative to the direction its facing, but instead it roles relative to the worlds z-axis, going corner over corner.

If you only ever use x and y rotate, you'll not notice the problem. Its just z-rotation.

Machine: P4 2200, 1GB RAM, GeForce4 64MB, Audigy Platinum
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Willy
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 22:15
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I e-mailed them with the ZROTATE bug, and got a reply they were going to fix it. (Plus, the turn, etc. commands do not update the object information.) Hopefully they can get this in the P5 fixes. Really tough to do realistic car simulations over tilting ground, or even put a fence on the side of a hill, if you can't properly rotate the object - even static objects.....

Willy
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Fallout
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 22:21
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Damn right!

I made a wicked little car physics engine based on point node simulation. Because of the bug though, it only works when the car is travelling parallel with the world z-axis. Basically, I've been sitting on a wicked car engine for quite some time, totally unable to use it for anything except dragster simulation (which would obviously be a complete waste of time).

If patch 5 fixes these errors, I'll be a happy man.

Machine: P4 2200, 1GB RAM, GeForce4 64MB, Audigy Platinum
http://www.breakbeat-terrorism.co.uk
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Rob K
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 23:45
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Email them again with words like "Urgent" and "The Apocalyse is going to arrive so..." in the title. Seriously.

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Ian T
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 01:42
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Send a mail titled 'You see, your life is really just a mesh of burnt CDs and eyeballs'. Who could resist opening that?

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
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IanM
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 01:50
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Me. Anything as stupid as that is obviously spam
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 01:51
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Have the lucky DBDN subscribers had the P5 test patch yet ?

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Fallout
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 02:25
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I'm sure I heard something about the rotation system being fixed for patch 5. I shouldnt have to email them. I'm sure they know about it already.

Incidentally, DBC had exactly the same bug which they resolved with the 5th patch I think. That's probably why it frustrated me a lot when I first discovered it. They made the same mistake twice.

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Willy
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 19:55 Edited at: 18th Jun 2003 20:08
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@Fallout
I got my vehicle simulation to work by keeping track of the roll angles myself. Use the ROLL OBJECT LEFT command (or right) based on the tilting of the ground, and record the amount of roll. Next time through, look at the new tilt angle you need, and subtract from the old angle you recorded. Then ROLL that amount, and update your recorded object orientation. Its a fair amount of exta work, but so far, it hasn't gotten too far out of sync with the model. When you get anywhere close to level, set your recorded angle to zero.
Also - note that doing an OBJECT ROTATE or MOVE after you do the ROLL command seems to make the ROLL command invalid. And, of course, the object's X,Y, and Z rotate information is not updated after the ROLL command, so you can't do an inquiry on the model's current orientation.
Unfortunately, you can't use the above trick for static objects you load, such as fences, guard rails, walls, trees, signs, bridges, tunnels, etc., - only objects that keep changing their position. (You have to keep issuing the ROLL command, each frame, to the tilt angle you want. I guess you could do that with all of your objects, if you aren't too concerned about frame rates...)

Will be nice when it gets fixed!

(I am kinda wondering how the folks that wrote the level editors and object manipulators managed to do that, without being able to rotate in the Z axis - unless they went outside of DB Pro to get it to work...)

Willy
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Duffer
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2003 17:55
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The million dollar question - when is 'Upgrade 5' now due...?
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Rob K
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2003 19:02
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Don't ask. Lee doesn't know.

I would suggest possibly July.

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Luke
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2003 02:10
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I wonder if P5 will have hi-tech commands like "Save Bitmap" and "hide matrix" haha. Actually it would be cool if you could hide/shoe individual tiles easily. AndI think the forgot shadow reflection, and cartoon shading for matricies, maybe they saved it for p5. Anyway, if they say it's going to come out in July, it'll come out around late August or early September, lol.

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Fallout
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2003 02:32
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If rotational bugs are fixed and matricies can be hidden, I will have to change my pants twice. x-d

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DMXtra
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2003 12:50 Edited at: 23rd Jun 2003 12:55
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Well I have code provided to me about those issues. Can I attach zip files on this board?

Go here...

http://www.realgametools.net/forums/index.php?board=18;action=display;threadid=15437

I explained your issues to lee and this is what he emailed me back, there are some code examples there.

If you have further issues, please provide me an example of your code so that I may hand it off to Lee.

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2003 12:52
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Not directly - you could provide a link.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
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Rob K
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2003 22:13 Edited at: 23rd Jun 2003 22:15
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"I wonder if P5 will have hi-tech commands like "Save Bitmap" and "hide matrix" haha. "

I wonder if people have finally realised that they are wasting their time with the built in matrix commands. Just use Kevil's lib instead. The built in ones are slow, inflexible and have visual problems. DBO memblock matrices are fast, support the full array of object commands are are better visually.

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Duffer
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2003 22:57
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@ Rob K,

Where can I find this wondrous .dll from Kevil????
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