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3 Dimensional Chat / MOTF: Character Teaser.

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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 10th Jun 2003 09:54
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Hello,

I'm almost finished with the Main Character of my game,
Tales of Aerune: March of the Fallen. Anyway he was modelled in Lightwave3d, UV'ed in Lightwave3d, Animated in Lightwave3d...I did my texture maps with Photoshop. The only parts of him that 'ARE NOT' textured are his: Ears, Shoulder Plate, Pants/upperlegs, hands, hair.

The images you are seeing are rendered inside Lightwave3d, but fear not . I'll have shots of the ingame model later..with the same texture quailty..and different textures for different times of the day ...Anywayz..I do apologies for the polygon hole in his back right kneecap..I forgot about that thing..And the gridlines in LW..I forgot to turn those off ..ok now I feel blonde..

Oh well let me give you some background information about our pointy eared friend.

Eyrilus Drenan:

Age: 217
Weight: 155 pounds
Elemental Magic: Fire
Eyes: Pale Silver, Emerald Green
Hair: Metallic Blue-Green
Weapon of Prefrence: Double-Handed Sword


Prohecy Concering Life: He will die on the day he gives his last gift.


Eyrilus is the last member of the once Glorious Drenan House, his forbearers falling in the Rune War. Terribly Gifted in the arts of magic and seeminly preternatural knowing, He holds true to the chivialric leanings of his fore-fathers.However,he is disturbed, tormented by dreams and premenitions, to the extent that his peers avoid him. He finds Solistice only in the night, bathed in the light of the moon. However there is hope. The love of a young woman may be his salvation...


Copy and Paste these urls into a new browser if you please.

Textured Images.
http://silvermoonstudios.netfirms.com/Teaser.jpg

http://silvermoonstudios.netfirms.com/Teaser2.jpg

http://silvermoonstudios.netfirms.com/teaser3.jpg

Wireframes..sorta:
http://silvermoonstudios.netfirms.com/Wire1.jpg

http://silvermoonstudios.netfirms.com/Wire2.jpg

http://silvermoonstudios.netfirms.com/Wire3.jpg


Oh well, I hope to have more to show when I create it. I'm open to comments..and constructive critisism...tick me off and I'll make you wear your teeth as a necklace ..just kidding And I know this is nothing compared to holiness Simple showed us..but hey! I'm still learning!!!
"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 10th Jun 2003 09:59
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I forgot to meantion that he weights in a t3196 polys at the moment.

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Arrow
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Posted: 10th Jun 2003 10:11
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Very nice, I see you finally figured out how you wanted to do the hair.

Teenage Male Geek + Female Remotly Intersted in Common Geek Activities = Teenage Male Jackass
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WindTech
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Posted: 10th Jun 2003 10:12
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Thank god! a fellow lightwave user nice job btw

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Learn as if to live forever.
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Disco Stu
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Posted: 10th Jun 2003 10:13
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Why must you taunt us with your godly skills?!?! Lol

That's awesome, I can't wait to see the finished product.

There's nothing at all bad that I can point out, me being a lowly modeller and all, damn how'd you become so good? And on Lightwave? I've heard its a tough program to master.

Keep it up,
Sina.

"Maybe if you ain't so good, I ain't so bad."--Tony Manero to Stephanie (Karen Lynn Gorney)
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Jun 2003 12:51
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that does look pretty good... kinda like Caroline's work, only thing i'm worried about is the mesh definition compared to the polycount.
The look would've suggested a much lower count of say around 1,200 (cause that head looks like it would cost alot)

i'd look into trying to get that count right now... but that is a good use of the vertex baking, its good to see another user apart from me actually uses it

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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Soyuz
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Posted: 10th Jun 2003 12:59
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I'd say the guy's shoulder armour is considerably more detailed than the rest of the model - You could save a few faces there. Does the character's body mesh extend behind the clothing? Have all unseen faces been removed?

This is a sweet character. Congrats to you - I'd love to see it in action in a game
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actarus
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Posted: 10th Jun 2003 15:17 Edited at: 10th Jun 2003 15:27
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I have to agree with the rest,the first thing I though is,ouch is this shoulder supposed to be mesh deformed or what?...Seriously,you could lower this one part of at least 600 triangles,this is the kinda place where you will want the texture to play some part in the shaping.

I really love the elfic-anime style although the muscle's texture on the arm are a bit blurry,especially for a render(is it?) but this is real eye candy...Too bad there isn't a thumbs up smiley

BTW:Who said you need to be a texturing god in order to make a good game model

Disco Stu:Lightwave isn't a hard to learn program,it's just that the interface is a bit stupidly arranged and cluttering the space,once you sort out the shortcuts and the layout,like in trueSPace,it takes just a little while to get used.


BTW2:It's so good to see modelers criticizing/commenting a model,on RGT you don't always get that and strangely,the place is supposed to be more frequented.

Running away You're lost for words again Now you`ve got all what you wanted Are you really satisfied?
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John H
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Posted: 10th Jun 2003 16:29
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Really nice job man

RPGamer

Current Project: Eternal Destiny
Questions? Comments? Suggestions? Go to the Eternal Destiny Forum!
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MikeS
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Posted: 10th Jun 2003 17:36
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Other than all the C&C above (polycount,shoulderblade,etc.), and the other problems you've pointed out.

You've done a marvoulous job.



(Current)-Conquest of the Continent Announced!!-
(progress)-concept/story/goals finished-
(misc.)learning m-shape&ts5 (as current as)6-9-03
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 02:18 Edited at: 11th Jun 2003 02:19
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**Shakes WindTech Hand** Good to meet you sir I might like to get in touch with you, and discuss LW techinques, if thats ok..

Disco Stu:
Thanks for the encouraging words. I'd like to think I'm good..but to me my work is Tolerable..Simple raised the bar on me..so I've got alot of growing to do before I can do a pullup :-s

Raven:
Yes man you do have a point. One of the things I keep in my mind during the whole modelling phase was the mesh definition. I did my best to ensure that the shillotte was believeable from every angle..I'm not sure how much I can do with with poly count..In Quad
for its about 1500..but in Tri form its x2. All I can do is my best and hope the victim that plays my game has a good comp... And vertex baking just kicks ass doesnt it?

Soyuz:
I did have that problem a while back but I fixed it..and yeah you do have a good point regarding the shoulder plate definition. The I can trim it to A CONSIDEREABLE extent...LW has a wonderful lil plugin for it.. And thanks for the kind words.

actarus:
I like your idea about the texture adding form to the shoulder plate..I'll have to do that. And yep ..The Arm UV is only 512X512..and it's not done..I plan to give it more skin like attributes for the finally bake..

And during my time with LW, I've found it to be an extremely straight forward program...LW and I think alike so we get along

RPGamer:
I give you opinion special weight...I was hoping their would be more of one though

yellow:
Thank ya kindly sir [b])

Arrow:
...sorta...

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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John H
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 03:48
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Age: 217

Whoa! What kinda anti age pill is he takin! He looks more like 21!!


Im hoping our main character can come out with that kind of quality, but I have total faith in WindTech. Thats really high quality work, it does seem as though the polycount could be lowered a little bit.

On the arm with the shoulder guard, it does look like there is a whole shoulder in there. Is there any way you could make it so the shoulder 'merges' with the guard to take away a few polies? I know lightwave has a polycruncher, you may want to use that (if you havent already) just to see if your model doesnt get too messed up. Just incase you hadnt already done that....

In teaser2 I can see how the collars inside is see thru-able, same with the hair (in shot 3), but Im sure backface culling in DB will fix that I like the style of the hair, kind of reminds me of clay the way the rendering is done. I really like the detail on the model, the personality of the character (if I gather right) really shows.

Great job (again) I cant wait to see more of your work!

RPGamer

Current Project: Eternal Destiny
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 04:13
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well remember Brent the point in Vertex Baking is to actually help the texture with the illusion of more polygons, most games now just use PerPixelLighting which you might've heard or seen of - essentially the same thing.

It is a shame to see people using it in this mannor, because the entire point is you take you current mesh and for best results you'll subdivide the mesh - bake the vertex & export, then undo the subdivide for a more sane polycount ... add in a few details like eyes and muscle definition, et voila you have a 1,200 poly model that looks like it's 2,400 christ you've gotta love the little gizmo's we're given in these packages hehee.

Especially as you don't have to fart-arse around later when textureing about all the major shadows & such you're just really adding on detail ... still alot of work ontop of what is already there, but it certainly eleviates alot and keeps the model consistance and real

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 06:28
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RPGamer:
LOL..hehe...He is on prozac....But he's an Elf. In most mythologies they are a fair and blessed people..either living for Millenium or Eternaly. In MY mythology, they are immortal..but don't worry. In my story an Elf at the age 217 years is equal (physically sorta) to a 19 year old male.

I'm seriously entertaining your idea about melding the Shoulder Structure and Shoulder Plate. And the I used the poly cruncher on the head..cuz it was a good 700 at first..That polycruncher QemLos is unbelieveable..thats about all I can say.

I made a point to turn Doublesided Polys off for the render, and to spot polys with the wrong facing. I forgot to set it back :-s
But you'ved answered my next follow up..so DBP supports doubled sided polys?

And dont worry about that hair..I havent textured it yet. I can do a trick and use Sasquatch to generate photorealistic hair, then paste the rendered image onto its uv..so just wait

And thanks for the input! Comminucation MAN!!! I need more like that.


Raven:

I think were discussing 2 seperate things..LW has 'Surface Baker' I think I made the mistake of calling it Vertex Mapping. What it does is takes the lighting, image maps,spec maps, bump maps and shaders that play on the object (render quailty mind you) and outputs it to a Nice little colour UV image. It does make it look Highpoly..but with all my image maps, spec maps, Bump maps in one nice neat little colour map image.
Either way...GOD I LOVE IT! Thanks for your input man, I look forward to more of it!

I'm baking the UV map at the moment..I'll post it later tonight if I can. Thanks to all for their replys. They helped me greatly without making me want to shoot myself or others!!! ..just kidding

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 06:31 Edited at: 11th Jun 2003 06:33
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Also RPGamer..you spoke of the model bringing out character. Tell me whats your 'first impression' of this guy? Disregard the short bio I gave... This could help me alot..tell away!!!

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Rellik
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 07:30
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Hey, that's really cool! I know other people have said that, but it's really high quality. Especially for being in LightWave... I have no idea how to use it. I can learn that in time though.

Does LightWave have the capability to connect up with DBP? As far as I can tell, it can only render scenes and objects, as .scn and .obj respectively, and I have no idea how to get anything like that into DBP. And by the way, maybe I should make a new thread for this, but do you have to texture the model inSIDE DBP, or do you have to use some other program (I've been hearing about this LithUnwrap and UV even though I don't know what they are), or can you actually just use the texturing set inside the program.

I think LightWave is a really capable medium, and I can't wait to learn how to use it . Anyway, nice job with that, really intense looking character, and I hope you or someone can answer that question.
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 08:12
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Especially for being in lightwave? I almost took offense to that.
Goto www.lightwave3d.com and look at the list of movies that used LW comptelely. And look at the gallery and be amazed...you havent given lightwave the respect it is worthy of...BAD!

Lightwave is an EXTREMELY usable, Highend modelling, and photorealisc render.

And yes lightwave can connect to DBP. You can export your models and animations, UV textures and stuff like that using an exporter plugin by Dstorm. And you give the texture command in DBP yes..if that answers your question. And Lightwave has it's own model format .lwo and it's scene format is .lws. Read that manual boy!!!

Lightwave is a very capable medium. I've had no complaints...ever.

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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WindTech
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 13:10
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All you people who speak badly of lightwave...I almost hate you! ;p
I wont post a 1280x1024 image here so please click the link!
this is pic is 100% me...the concept is from Blizzard/Broodwar but the models are all mine.
http://antiga.sytes.net/desert.jpg
And a second...
http://antiga.sytes.net/patrol.jpg
Lightwave power!
All be it, I still have -extreme- issues with exporting to directX using proper weight maps.

Live as if to die tomorrow...
Learn as if to live forever.
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actarus
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 15:08
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I've seen pretty impressive stuff in LW...Just as much as in free wings3D or the costly SI Xsi.

Good for both lowpoly and high poly.

I also keep hearing about it being the fastest modeler around...After wings of course

It's render engine is the same as trueSpace 4+(lightworks) if that can be of any help to anyone to decide between both.

Running away You're lost for words again Now you`ve got all what you wanted Are you really satisfied?
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Rellik
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 15:10
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Sorry, what I meant was, LightWave is hard to use. Maybe I wasn't all that clear sorry.
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actarus
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 15:28 Edited at: 11th Jun 2003 15:29
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Yeah it's a bit hard to get used to a new software.

Especially when the workflow changes as dramatically as in LW.

Personally,I go for the software that makes me feel free...Same as when I model without refpics,there's much more design freedom this way...

I mean,modeling with a refpic is good for keeping the outline shapes but ultimately you will want to view the model from every possible angle and Tweak it so that,from an artistic POV,it's more interesting to look at and that you can give screens from many angles without any vertice or cornered edges giving it a blockish look.

I guess you know what I mean when I say I'm a subject changer...


Now back to Brent's topic.(At least that puts it on top page )

Running away You're lost for words again Now you`ve got all what you wanted Are you really satisfied?
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John H
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 17:22
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Well to me he looks like an adventurer. His facial expression seems like he is tough, and strong. He may have a rough past behind him as well. He looks like a guy who could fight with pure anger.

Anything close?

RPGamer

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John H
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 17:23
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Oooo I just read the bio, I didnt do that bad did I? I didnt read it the first time through, just looked at the screens

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Arrow
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 19:58
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He reminders me of the big guy who uses Break Arts in "Vagrant Story" for some reason.

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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 11th Jun 2003 20:49
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Windtech: This my thread boy! Bump off! Don't make me highjack it back!!! :-s jk

Seriously thought, Nice Stuff. Did you use proceduals for everthing? Anyway I expecially like the desert one...next time do some HDRI images and radiosity!! You'll be smoking then!!!
You and I shall have to discuss DirextX exporting and Weightmaps...that could be an 'OH SH*T' spot for me. I'll catch you on aim when I can.

And Rpgamer:

Sorta..the Strong part yes..in the story I'm gonna be droping 'cold..dsiturbed' clues everytwhere!!!! I'll post the shoulder work later for your opionion.



And after work I'll post the 512x512 in game texture. Can graphics cards handle 1024x1024? Anywayz cheers to all, and thanks for the input!

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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hatekilldestroy
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 22:04
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nice model, but it is very high poly.....ummmm.....only thing I would say needs improvement visually would be maybe some designs on that shoulder armor.
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 23:38
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HatekillDestroy:

Correct!! Let us refer to my orginal post!!!

"The only parts of him that 'ARE NOT' textured are his: Ears, Shoulder Plate, Pants/upperlegs, hands, hair. "

I've textured the hair, and pants since then. I'll post a new screeny if you'd like to see. At the moment he's at 3128 polys. But hey don't worry by the Time any of us on this forum really put out a quality demo or full fledged rpg, A 'low end' graphics card will probably have 256 megs of DDR ram

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 23:40
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personally i don't like Lightwaves development methods at all, for those who like it no doubt it is fast - but for me everything takes around 20x longer than Max or Maya (thats if i can even figure out howto achieve it at all)

as for the power of it... Lightwave has a good render'r, but it really has nothing on the likes of Pixar Renderman5, Splutterfish Brazil or Messiah:Renderer
though compaired to MentalRay it is pretty similar, only real difference is you don't have to worry about Photonics & deep lebel Material Editing makes it simpler to use, but also means it doesn't have quite as much power and control.

As for Surface Baking... it is almost identical to Vertex Colour Assigning in Max, however Lightwaves has a few more features which makes it softer and more accurate (i hate all of Max's bugs)

Within the Epic battle of the fates the Shadow and the Angel will meet. With it will harbinger the very fight of good vs evil!
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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 16th Jun 2003 23:54
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Thats great Raven...Just what does that have to do with my topic?

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abandonstage
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 14:23
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Raven: Im wondering... Baking sounds like a great tool to help with texturing, and I use cinema 4d with bodypaint. Im just wondering if it can be done in it?

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Brent_Seraphim
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 21:52
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Arlighty, Well it's been a while since I updated this post. So here's the latest Additions to the Elf Guy. I've used a few tricks add managed to use Sasquatch to generate a good hair texture, and I've since textured the ears(horrible..gonna redo) and the hands...sorta.
Aye..my I've been in a rust lately...I've started on the next Character, Lythis Phyraius...but alas I dont have enough Christina Aguleria picks to correctly proportion her to my specifications ...in good time. And now I've realized my textures can be some much better. I'll probably end up redoing the arm, ear, face, shirt textures before I'm satisfied... So what parts do you guyz think need to be redone? I'm open to suggestions.

http://silvermoonstudios.netfirms.com/test5.jpg
http://silvermoonstudios.netfirms.com/test4.jpg

"Laugh to scorn the power of man..."
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