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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Robbed buying dbpro...

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iaretony
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 21:51
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When I tried to purchase dbpro, I was sent to a site called
"www.realgametools.com". Once their, I purchased (paying via paypal)
a copy of dbpro.

This was WEEKS ago. I have sent 4 emails to [email protected]
and recieved 0 replies. They certainly took my $100 dollars tho.

Basically, I feel like I have been robbed.

Tony
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andrew11
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 21:59
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RGT (real game tools) is the american DB site. You were not robbed; it simply takes a few weeks to get to you. Especially if you are not in the US.

"All programmers are playwrites and all computers are lousy actors" -Anon
Click Here!!!
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Rob K
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 22:01
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Not really - I have had orders shipped from the US in under a week easily. RGT have not shipped it obviously. Technically, I think it is a bit dodgy that they take the money before they ship the product (unlike Amazon or any other site for example).

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_103.zip
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Soyuz
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 22:10
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Have you checked the money actually left your account as opposed to presuming it did when you pressed the "confirm" button for the transaction. I'm not suggesting YOU are a dumb arse but I've certainly done dumb arse things like that before!
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aprilfan
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 22:15
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i got mine from RGT too and it took a long time, but GuyS is really nice and worked with me to make sure I got it, he even suggested sending another copy. So wait, he may be busy, and you will get it. Also check with the pay pal people, they have a site where you can check order status.

-Anjin

The Great Schism.- The Earths reaction to Heavons invasion.
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the_winch
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 22:18
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http://www.realgametools.net/forums/index.php?board=14;action=display;threadid=15906

Even for a one man band (what rgt appears to be) that is a bad way to treat a customer. 4 weeks an no reply is when you call your card company and try to get your money back.

In the customers eyes there are very few valid reasons for not saying anything after 4 weeks of none shipment.
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Ian T
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 22:41
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Guy has been having some problems with his servers and mail, I think. Regardless of what happened, you were not robbed-- I don't know what the problem is, but I know Guy is a good guy (ach, that sounds odd) and will work it out.

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
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relyks
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Posted: 17th Jun 2003 23:53
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I just recently ordered my Dbpro from RGT and it has been two weeks and I also sent many emails without response. Then today I checked the forums at RGT and there is a thread about Guy having personal problems and some computer problems to boot. So it may take a while for him to get his stuff going again. Also while on the forums over there Rich said that if you emailed him a complete copy of your paypal reciept then they would send you your software but the character FX deal with RGT would be void.

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BatVink
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 00:07
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In the UK, it's illegal to take payment before the goods have been shipped. If you are in the UK, the best course of action is to complain to the CC company, show them all your email attempts to contact RGT, and they will give you your money back.

Then go to Amazon, mine arived in 2 days.

If you get bored of waiting, you can always buy some face paints from my site, I always deliver within 3 days, hours of entertainment

Thanks in advance.
All the Best,
StevieVee
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 00:56
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Its been about 2 months now that Guy hasn't been seen...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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iaretony
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 01:32
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First of all, it's not just that I haven't recieved the product I ordered. It's that they haven't even bothered to reply and give me an excuse. The company appears to be a black hole, where money goes in, and nothing comes out.

Second, I have actually checked both my bank account, and paypal. They BOTH clearly show that the money has been sent. I have confirmation numbers to prove it.

Will PayPal give the money back, like a credit card company would, if a transaction was fraudulent?

Third, $99.99 is a non trivial amount of money. If this was $20, I would probably just write it off, and go to Amazon.

Finally, I would just like to say that perhaps the makers of DarkBasic should do something about this. This reflects VERY poorly on them. They linked me to this site in the first place, after all.
Just some re-assurance that their working on it, and I haven't truly been robbed would be nice.

[email protected]

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Ian T
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 01:39
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I'll quote here:


'Then today I checked the forums at RGT and there is a thread about Guy having personal problems and some computer problems to boot. So it may take a while for him to get his stuff going again.'


K? Please read the posts.

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 01:42
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Yes, I can imagine the non-replys being very annoying - the reason being given in a previous post. However, various notes should have been left on the RGT web site, and possibly the one here should have been updated quicker, but there you go.

I am surprised nothing has been heard from him - how long does it take to get a new modem of some sort - even its its steam powered !?

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Angeleyes
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 01:46
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I agree Tony, and I also agree that it is not good customer support when you send emails off and get nothing back.

If he is a "one-man-band" then he should not have taken in the job of being the American rep for DarkBasic. Its no excuse to say he is a "nice man" or that he is having "personal problems" or that he’s having "server problems" etc etc.

He may be a great guy and he may be going through a lot of problems, but the bottom line is that he owes you software and/or your money back.

Ta ta for now
Mary

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 01:49
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That is the trouble with 'one man bands' - there is no backup (ie no-one to continue the job) when disaster/problems/martian invasion/floods/my taking over of the world occur.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Van B
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 01:53
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Before the torches and pitch forks come out - DBS are handling the backlog of RGT orders, I'll see if I can find the relevant post...


Van-B

My cats breath smells of cat food.
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Van B
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 02:56
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Here it is:

http://www.realgametools.net/forums/index.php?board=14;action=display;threadid=15906;start=0


Van-B

My cats breath smells of cat food.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 06:24
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Quote: "Then today I checked the forums at RGT and there is a thread about Guy having personal problems and some computer problems to boot"


i know this'll sound harsh, but sorry that just isn't an excuse when you run a business. If you can't perform your daily tasks then you make sure there is some who can - else you close down your company until such time as your are fit again to reopen.

Quote: "DBS are handling the backlog of RGT orders"

Then surely Rick or Rich should post and/or email to such effect no?

either way there is someone at fault here and it is isn't the customer for paying for a service ... 2weeks for an order and a customer (albeit irate) will sit by and wonder where the order is, however after that you can quite easily understand that with no word and no product they will want to demand thier money back for such poor service.
And i've heard a good few cases of this, RGT is very lucky thier reputation isn't sevearly damaged at this point.

and before anyone says "did you read the post." ... i didn't because you let emotions of a situation cloud what you say, when alot of customers wouldn't be hawking over the forums to find out information about thier orders.
I'm sure Guy's situation is heart wrenching, but business is resposibility - if someone hires me to do say a commercial with 3D, and they expect it by Tuesday and i'm ill can can barely pickup the mouse, come Tuesday they're not going to care that i've missed thier deadline, they're going to wonder why the hell they've paid me this money for a service not done. Although yes they'll be a little apathetic this wouldn't get me an extension and it'll be my resposibility to make sure that the job is done either by dragging myself out of bed for the immediate work or making sure a mate can do it.

I pride myself that i don't kill...
well not without a good reason
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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 07:10
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If Guy is having personal and server problems, he SHOULD NOT BE OPERATING AS A DISTRIBUTOR!!! DBS should temporarily shut him down until he can get his act together. I know that he is a great guy, and is doing his best but this is not good for the company as a whole! Complain to DBS, not RGT. Tell them the situation, see if something can be worked out. You should not have to be left in the cold like this.

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
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DarK2
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 07:43
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Wow - I'm glad I read this. I wouldn't have known to go through Amazon if I hadn't stumbled across this. Sorry you are having problems though.

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OpticRealm
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 08:03
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I can only find the Classic version on Amazon? Anyone have a link to the Pro?
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Gamer
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 08:04
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I ordered mine from RGT too and never got anything from them/him. I sent RGT four emails and never got a reply. I had to bitch about it to DBS three or four times before I got a response from Rich. As I was told by Rich that GuyS (the guy @ RGT) had some tragic personal event. But he promised Rich that things will get back to normal soon. Well, I finally got my order from DBS after a month. I still haven't heard from RGT (not that it matters anymore since I've got my order). No apologies. Nothing. Personally, I will never buy anything ever from RGT again. I don't care what anyone says about how nice that guy @ RGT is, but to me, he's pretty damn irresponsible. He could've at least set up an auto response and he did absolutely NOTHING! Well, good luck to you.

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Van B
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 12:41
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Well if he could'nt get online, he could'nt check emails etc. The post about DBS fullfilling RGT orders was posted on RGT, where else would it go?

I'm not making excuses, it is a horrible situation that is hopefully resolved now - Guys is hiring someone to handle the orders, so expect good delivery performance and more DBPro stuff from Guys. I can understand people being pissed, I'd be pissed too if I was stuck without DBPro. Hopefully it's a turning point now - people will get their copies soon, and get busy complaining about bugs instead .


Van-B

My cats breath smells of cat food.
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Darkheart
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 13:43 Edited at: 18th Jun 2003 14:56
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There's absolutly no way I can believe that someone who was running a business could be unable to get online for 2 months. Replacement hardware is easy to get hold of, even if it wasn't there are web cafe's, friends internet connections that could be used and a load of other options. Even just a simple phonecall to DBS and Guy could probably have had the work done by proxy.

All it would have taken to avoid this situation is for Guy to put up a message on his site saying, "I'm very sorry, I cannot accept any orders for Darkbasic Pro at this time due to x,y,z, Please order through DBS/Amazon or try again later.". Then inform his vendor not to accept any more orders. No mess, no fuss and everyone would be fine. Heck even just an e-mail to those who had already ordered saying "Sorry, please contact DBS to fulfill your order etc." would have been better.

Instead an unkown amount of money has been taken without any products being sent out leaving a lot of people with the impression they've been defrauded. I think Paypal are even sending replies to people saying they are investigating RGT for fraud.

For DBS to throw its hands up and say "Nowt to do with us Guv!", seems wrong, yes they are a seperate company, but they are also DBS's liscensed distributers for their product.

Could this situation have been handled any more badly???

Darkheart

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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 14:47
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I like GuyS, he seems a nice guy, and I feel very sorry for him if he is having personal problems of some sort. But I can think of no reason why he couldn't quikly edit the orders page to have a message appologizing that he can't take orders and referring to this site or amazon.

If it is a server problem and he can't edit the site, the the site should be taken down. Paypal is an automated service and will continue to take people's money, regardless of whether the person running the site sends the orders out.

Heck, if he can't edit his servers and doesn't want to take them down, he could simply go to Paypal and cancel his account with them!

This kind of thing just looks irresponsible and reflects badly on DBS, especially as he is representing the entire (and huge) US market! Unless GuyS has died (in which case I'd be very saddnenned) I can think of no reason to dissappear for 2 months without some form of rectative action, that, lets face it, could be done in a few minutes, even at a net cafe or with Paypal down the phone!

*rant over*

Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes, They got them hoppy legs & twitchy little noses,
And what's with all the carrots? What do they need such good eyesight for anyway?
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actarus
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 15:15
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Didn't anyone know that GuyS takes the shipment orders then splits every 100$ he gets with the community members,so far we all go 1/4 penny each


I suggest visiting RGT like,now(18th June)...They got a message all over the place for ya.

Modeling Tip of the Week:The more details you put on a model,the more you will learn from it!
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The Darthster
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 15:32
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Here you go, optic:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00006G8H1/ref=sr_aps_software_1_1/202-7853188-7167849

Once I was but the learner,
now, I am the Master.
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The Darthster
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 15:38
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"After a series of serious computer and electrical failures resulting in repairs in excess of $9,000, the staff of Real Game Tools is just now regaining access to the Internet. To speed data recovery and to ship current orders immediately, we ask for your assistance. If you placed an order with Real Game Tools and have not received it to date, please send an email directly to [email protected]. "

Once I was but the learner,
now, I am the Master.
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 19:30
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And I suppose there's no internet cafe within 6000 miles of Guy and he doesn't know anyone else in the same state with a PC and a telephone line.

Pneumatic Dryll
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David T
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 20:42 Edited at: 18th Jun 2003 20:43
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"After a series of serious computer and electrical failures resulting in repairs in excess of $9,000, the staff of Real Game Tools is just now regaining access to the Internet. To speed data recovery and to ship current orders immediately, we ask for your assistance. If you placed an order with Real Game Tools and have not received it to date, please send an email directly to [email protected]. "

Weird. I'm not getting at anyone but I@ve noted lods of one-man-bands reference to "staff". However, I think staff is the singular form aswell so all can be forgiven

[edit]

Quote: "Also, Real Game Tools has hired a new staff member to handle order fulfillment starting July 1st, so I can continue with new developments for DBPro. Thank You for your patience, and I hope to be able to get to the forums and answer for this very soon."


Oh, wait, I see. 2 people.

You are the th person to view this signature.
Programmers don't die, they just Gosub without return....
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 21:30
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Oftenly companies seem like one-man bands ... but remember GuyS wife also helps him out alot, so thats atleast 2 people - and some community members appear to have Webspace accounts with nmisoftware/realgamestools.

I know he ain't a one-man band, but i would be surprised if the staff is any larger than DBS (6 incase ya'll are wondering).
But it just does seems odd to me is all, i mean even if i dropped dead there are still 3 other members of FMTau which are around the forums to shrug thier shoulders at whats happened and my partner is always prepaired to take over at a moments notice - i mean really i'm just the pretty face for the company

I pride myself that i don't kill...
well not without a good reason
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 21:32
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pretty face for the company

Stick a proper picture of yourself somewhere, and we'll see if thats true.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Gamer
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 21:38
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He's running a business and he has no backups?? Any knowledgeable person who deals with computers, be it hardware or software, knows how important backup is. And he's a developer??? Well, I hope he backs up his code...

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 22:44
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hehe Gamer, you hit the nail on the head. Although the real smart arses actually have what's called a restore procedure, and they laugh innanely at those who only have a backup procedure and sit there scratching their head when everything goes wrong holding onto a tape drive.

Pneumatic Dryll
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th Jun 2003 23:57
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hehee...i've posted my piccy before (^_^)
don't want to again so you'll just have to take my word for it that i'm cute

I pride myself that i don't kill...
well not without a good reason
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Terabyte
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Posted: 19th Jun 2003 00:07
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well
have you seen the notice at the top of this forum i think it may answer your problem

Info Q.&statments corect@da time of going to pres. I acept 0 responsibility for typos gramaticaly incorect txt swering or pety complant tht u hve so just piss off unles u r anserin da Q.
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The Wendigo
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Posted: 19th Jun 2003 00:57
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Cute Raven? I don't think so. It was in my thread so I know what you look like (j/k). Actually, I don't judge men.... I don't bat for the "wrong" team, and besides, I think Rose said you weren't bad looking, but it was a while back.

Current Projects: Game Spawn 85%, mini BSP maker 50%, Height Mapper with many features 75%, Space Tactical (Like BC300AD) 15%.
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Van B
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Posted: 19th Jun 2003 14:47
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I think Raven posted his pic in that 'Us Girlfriends' topic.

He looks eerily normal .


Van-B

My cats breath smells of cat food.
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 19th Jun 2003 16:43
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Must have missed it...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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actarus
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Posted: 19th Jun 2003 17:18
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I remember Van-B posted his too,so did I...Gotta see what the rest looks like though as long as you don't all look like John111. j/k

Modeling Tip of the Week:The more details you put on a model,the more you will learn from it!

If I've seen it all before,why's this bus taking me back again?
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ZomBfied
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Posted: 19th Jun 2003 21:30
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Who's Robb?

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 01:33
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Hehee... (^_^) she actually said i was quite cute when everyone was posting up thier pics and i didn't want to.
I only posted that other once cause she threated to post the one of my there up hehee - i've still yet to see that pic, probably looked a mess as the wind was all over the shop (and always harder to look cute next to someone who actually is )

personally i can see when girls find some guys cute, i dont' bat for the other side either - but i mean its not as if you can tell me that you can't tell when girls would find someone good looking.

I pride myself that i don't kill...
well not without a good reason
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Ian T
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 04:47
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Well for once I agree with you. On a similar note, people are too sensitive about how people comment on the attraction the opposite sex would hold on a member of the same sex... it gets rather crazy.

Suffice to say that I a look very, very average, and I'm glad of it . I can blend in very well when I want to...

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
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