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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Fan Games Using FPSCreator?

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WWII Tommy
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Posted: 19th Dec 2007 16:02
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Hello Everyone,

Im considering to make a full length Half Life fan game with a few friends using FPSC. Of course we plan to make out own storyline and use G-Mod for the G-Man introduction of the game. However, if I release it for free (as i am doing it for fun), could i get into any trouble for doing so? Also, im using a few models gained from the forum over the months...so if you see anything that is yours when i finish the game...tell me and i will put your name in the credits

James

*Never was so much owed by so many to so few*- Winson churchil
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Deathead
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Posted: 19th Dec 2007 17:28
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No. If you give it for free it will be fine its against the law if you re-sell anothers game idea e.g. If I made a game with Master Cheif in it.

[href=http://www.freewebs.com/deatheadstudios/]

[/href]
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Jiffy
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Posted: 19th Dec 2007 17:35
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From memory, the company can send you a Cease and Desist order, in which case you'd have to stop production. I remember a situation with another engine where this happened, though I can't remember what game the person was recreating.

I'd go for it for now. Valve are pretty cool people, and I doubt they'd care. And if they really cared that much, they would just send you a Cease and Desist, you'd stop working on it, and voila, no legal troubles.


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Airslide
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Posted: 20th Dec 2007 04:38 Edited at: 20th Dec 2007 04:47
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Quote: "I remember a situation with another engine where this happened, though I can't remember what game the person was recreating."


I dunno if this is it but I beleive that Beyond Wolfenstein (I & II) was formally asked to be taken down from the creator's site by ID. Apparently there was too much of the original Wolfenstein's content in them. They were pretty early mods too, some of the first to have a modified engine (and the guy didn't have dozens of code tuts to help him, either!).


Vote today and play the games!
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Jiffy
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Posted: 20th Dec 2007 04:40
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Yeah, I'm fairly sure that was it.

Anyway, like I said, until Valve comes a'knocking, I wouldn't worry too much .


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Locrian
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Posted: 20th Dec 2007 07:33
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Quote: "Anyway, like I said, until Valve comes a'knocking, I wouldn't worry too much"


No offence to you Jiffy, but that's a horrible piece of advice. Thats akin to saying: "Till you get caught shoplifting, is it really wrong? or: "Till I'm caught, driving under the influence hurts no one."

If you have a question, your best off to ask on the Valve forums. Write the company if you don't get an answer you feel comfortable with.

I know Lucus Arts often highlights and showcases fan based movies and games. Their view on is if you're not making any money off of it knock yourself out. Blizzard on the other hand will send people to your door in suits 4000 miles away handing you a "cease and desist" order (the owners of Blizzhackers comes to mind personally).

Valve may not take this stance, and certainly no one here can answer for those guys. Certainly don't allow anyone around here to be your moral compass, including me. You know what's right, and here isn't the place to find the answers......


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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 20th Dec 2007 08:07 Edited at: 20th Dec 2007 08:07
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Quote: "No offence to you Jiffy, but that's a horrible piece of advice. Thats akin to saying: "Till you get caught shoplifting, is it really wrong? or: "Till I'm caught, driving under the influence hurts no one.""


and what exactly is wrong with that method of thinking?

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Jiffy
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Posted: 20th Dec 2007 08:14 Edited at: 20th Dec 2007 08:16
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Quote: "No offence to you Jiffy, but that's a horrible piece of advice. Thats akin to saying: "Till you get caught shoplifting, is it really wrong? or: "Till I'm caught, driving under the influence hurts no one.""


No, it isn't akin to that. Shoplifting is illegal. Unless Valve explicitly says they don't want him to do it, he isn't doing anything wrong. That analogy really doesn't work.

I'm not saying he shouldn't check first. That's a good idea. I'm just saying he isn't physically doing anything wrong unless Valve say he is.


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Locrian
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Posted: 20th Dec 2007 09:12
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That analogy works great. Matter a fact it's 100% right on. You don't use someones work without asking....end of story.

Shoplifting is illegal....Dur...So is using someones else IP (intellectual property) without expressed consent. If your morals tell you thats ok, thats fine. But please don't give people advice. Not on these forums. No one likes a thief.

A name....A graphic...A model....A story line. That's all someones work. And it's not a case of "Unless Valve explicitly says they don't" but the opposite. All material is the property of the owner/creator unless permission is given......Do I have to tell my neighbor not to steal my snowblower? Ummmm...No. Unless I say he can use it thats theft.

Better tighten up that moral fortitude there partner....

Loc


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Jiffy
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Posted: 20th Dec 2007 09:25 Edited at: 20th Dec 2007 09:26
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Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, Locrian, but I'm feeling like you're getting a bit worked up about this. Sorry if I insighted that, I'm trying to keep this friendly .

Anyway, I'm sorry, I was under the impression that a fan game, not using physical content from said game, could expand on that universe. That was my impression. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry, but he was asking us what we thought and that was what I thought. He can do whatever he wants, but he wanted opinions and I gave him mine.

Quote: "Better tighten up that moral fortitude there partner...."


This has nothing to do with my morals. I'm sorry if I was misinformed. There's no need to insult me about it.


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protoborg
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Posted: 20th Dec 2007 09:39
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I think it is the sincerest form of flattery for someone to remake my work in an updated form so long as they do not claim it to be their own original idea. Some companies would agree. Lucasarts comes to mind. Lucas does not seem to mind people using the world of Star Wars for fan work. I don't know to what extent that goes, but it seems like the owner would appreciate the praise given by the fan work. Star Trek is another franchise that seems to allow fan creations. I cannot imagine what the world would be like if the fans of movies, tv shows, and books could not use those properties for their own personal expression. I hope we never have to find out.

You know your code sucks when it does what you want before you know what you want.
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Jiffy
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Posted: 20th Dec 2007 09:49 Edited at: 20th Dec 2007 09:51
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I found this on Wikipedia [I know the unreliability of the site in some cases, but where would they get incorrect information from?]:

Quote: "Most companies that don't outwardly promote or challenge fangames have in the past exacted a de facto policy of non-involvement or neutrality, officially stating that their copyrighted material may not be used without permission, but refusing to prosecute fangamers for doing so, in much the same way as fanfiction is tolerated."


So Locrian, according to this, you're right. I'd definetely suggest pursuing Valve for their stance on the subject, because they very well might not mind for the use of the Half-Life universe.

Oh--and I just realised I've completely forgotten about an incredibly relevant case of fangame.

Black Mesa (formally Black Mesa: Source) is a complete recreation of Half-Life 1 in the Source engine. Valve asked the team developing it to remove Source out of the title (to stop people from concluding it was of Valve's creation) but they allowed them to continue the project. I realise that this is in Valve's own engine, but I personally doubt there would be a difference in that regard.


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Locrian
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Posted: 20th Dec 2007 09:54 Edited at: 20th Dec 2007 09:59
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I'm not mad...lol. And I wasn't insulting ya man. I'll call people I don't know well partner....And if I don't like you and I'm to insult within the AUP I call um "pumpkin"(called my daughter that as a child, so it's my of equating that mentality).

Let me explain it this way: Youtubes big right now right? I know you've got go know someone thats been band for either using music or using clips from something. Heck I know one guy that was a brilliant special effects guy that made parodies of movies. When he got banned, all were up in arms about it. And as much as I appreciated his work I had to back YT's position. They did what was right, even if it was harmless.

Point is you shouldn't have to tell someone to not steal from you. Morally thats reprehensible. This certainly isn't any kind of argument. But the advice was off the mark by a mile, and if you failed to see why: My advice was don't give advice.

Peace
Loc

Edit: Got posted at the same time as your last. Glad you found a precedence for law, but seemed common sense to myself. Have a good one.


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uman
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Posted: 20th Dec 2007 10:01 Edited at: 20th Dec 2007 10:02
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Sorry to interupt.

It is illegal to use materials of any kind which do not belong to you and distribute them in any way whether you do so freely of for a monetary gain unless an original authors permissions specifically provide you with the right to do.

Additionally irrespective of materials which you may wish to use in your development if you are not the original creator or owner of those materials you should remember you cannot display or distribute just what you want from these forums.

Anything displayed here or distributed from here that potentially may infringe copyrights or interlectual property rights and might bring TGC in to disrepute may be removed. The onus is on you to provide proof of legality and still that does not give you any right here to display or distribute just what you like. Here the AUP and forum rules prevail and Moderators have to make a judgement on what is or is not in the best interests of TGC and the forums.

My advice would be to is stay away from utilising any other peoples well known materials. If you want to use Characters in your game and you have few options then it is easy enough use TGC models and change their skins to make them acceptably different to look how you want.



"There are those who said this day would never come - What have they to say Now?"
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Jiffy
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Posted: 20th Dec 2007 10:03 Edited at: 21st Dec 2007 11:36
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@Locrian: Well like I said in my previous post, I realise now that I was wrong in a legal sense. However, again, I was simply stating my opinion at the time based on my knowledge. That's what he asked, so that's what I gave.

As far as YouTube goes, I see music/video clips as a proper media, and I'd personally imagine that a company would be more protective of something they physically filmed or produced. And I realise it takes a lot of time to devise an entire fictional universe but based on fanfiction/mods/etc I can't imagine Valve specifically caring that much. But that's my opinion. I'm not asking you to take that for a grain of salt.

EDIT: I'm going to scrap what I wrote here and reply to your edit. It's not a matter of me prioritizing law, it's a matter of me being unaware of the potential illegality of what he was doing. I never intented to say it was okay for him to do something explicitly illegal.


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Gizmoguy
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Posted: 20th Dec 2007 12:37
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no its not alright. technically its not really wrong but people dont own copyright for nothing. i wanted to make a fan game of red dwarf but they moaned about it lol so i didnt dont see problem as there never gonna make one

God in his heaven, alls right with the world.
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WWII Tommy
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Posted: 21st Dec 2007 13:18
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oh...sorry ive been away...i happen to be on holiday...anyway, im not using anything that is owned by valve content wise, just the backstory to thier games to make a fan game. as for the entities, they have been on download from the forums for months...i just see a model that i could use and download it later, just in case...i dont take anything and say it is mine. i plan to say at the beginning of the game that no content is mine and is owed to (website link). then special thanks to anyone who wants it in the credits. i just want to make a good game using FPSC

*Never was so much owed by so many to so few*- Winson churchil
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darimc
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Posted: 21st Dec 2007 14:58
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Sorry for the random off topic post but damn those guys write a lot.

join the x games forum: http://www.fps-x-games.com

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Gizmoguy
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Posted: 21st Dec 2007 15:32 Edited at: 21st Dec 2007 16:19
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well my game was all my own stuff but they moaned at me, its technically still there stuff. its like making a mario game. if its about the copyrighted subject its copyright theft. but most people do em anyway as no1 cares lol n no1 looks for em




a way around this would be to rename things and add slight differences e.g mario would be called Lario and have an l instead of m on his cap etc etc

God in his heaven, alls right with the world.
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Keo C
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Posted: 21st Dec 2007 18:16
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Quote: "Lario"

hehehehe.


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Goodman84
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 20:46
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I think wat hes trying to say is Weather valve likes it or not no matter how bad it may or may not be, you not going to get in trouble.

except on this forum with flamers

but yes this is techanly illegal!

hey
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Gunn3r
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Posted: 25th Dec 2007 06:13
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(Off Topic)
But Gizmoguy, there is already a character with an "L" on his cap. Luigi...

(/Off Topic)

Backing up Locrians comment earlier on stealing: most games, books, movies, and any other sources of media have a disclaimer on the bottom right next to the little copyright symbol that says:
Quote: "
are the properties of their respective owners"

You wouldn't steal properties such as a lawn mower or a lamp, so why would you steal an IP (Intellectual Property)?

http://www.gunn3rgames.zxq.net
http://www.greatgamesexperiment.com/user/gunn3rgames
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