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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / DarkBASIC Newsletter Issue 6

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 20th Jun 2003 22:58
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Hi all,

DarkBASIC Newsletter Issue 6 was released today.



There are some neat articles this month including a very in-depth interview with Magnus Esko (DeadGlory) who talks about TML and other things. We've also got news of Cartography Shop 3, an exclusive Matrix screen saver (with source), some useful snippets from Lee and Mike and a few cool new games too

http://www.darkbasic.com/newsletter/issue6/

Cheers,

Rich
"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 00:43
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I found it funny that when I submitted Asteroids too you for the newletter you said 'if the game is good enough we'll include it'. Well obviously you felt it wasn't good enough, and that's fine - but you did include our Hyperbowl game - and errr, well, i'm not exactly proud of that one.

Thanks, it wasn't what I wanted but I did smile when I saw the funny side.

Pneumatic Dryll
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Solidz Snake
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 00:48
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Sexy face Rich!

Snake? What happened? Snake? Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!!! - Colonel Roy Campbell

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David T
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 01:25
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When are we going to hear about this FPS creator project? I'm sure you said that it would be revealed in this issue, after the front cover was issue 5 was taken from it.

You are the th person to view this signature.
Programmers don't die, they just Gosub without return....
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MikeS
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 01:31
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Good issue.

Congrats to Dead Glory, and all of the members that helped him!



http://www.geocities.com/yellow1dbp/blankstudio.html
Let me know if you want your site to have a link on my page.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 02:59
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Rich who did the headshot... i have a feeling it was Dansatuma because of the style, but if it is - that is one hell of alot better work than he was producing

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 03:27
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I did the face.

PneumaticDryll - re: asteroids, got to leave something for Issue 7 Besides in the end I went with the content I'd been emailed (all these nice people sending me screen grabs and text I can use in the newsletter, they kinda get included quicker, take a leaf out of their book? I always ask people to mail me content, I posted on the forums too but the whole thread turned into a degenerative waste of space to be honest so I ignored the final few posts on it).

Cheers,

Rich

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 03:28
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Oh.. "When are we going to hear about this FPS creator project?" - when Rick lets me (which basically isn't yet.. and I've a feeling that Issue 7 will be mostly Upgrade 5 related news as Lee is storming through bugs at the moment).

Cheers,

Rich

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 04:39
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*blinks*

Pneumatic Dryll
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 05:29
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you did that? ... wow, i'm impressed

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 05:47
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Yeah but I had help, when i'm older i'm going to blink on my own.

Pneumatic Dryll
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Dave J
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 05:48 Edited at: 21st Jun 2003 05:49
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Quote: "When we release DarkBASIC Professional Upgrade 5 "
~ Newsletter 6 - Lee Bamber
Quote: "Upgrade 5 related news"


I did notice you're saying Upgrade now instead of Patch, does this mean you've decided to adopt the term fully and hope everyone else will change too? I sure hope people do because it's a lot more accurate then patch. Patch seems to be a few bug fixes where as upgrade really describes the fact that there are a lot of new features included as well.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 16:13
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It will be called Upgrade from here on in - on the file names, the download exes, the web site, everything. To be honest it always should have been, no "patch" yet has ever done nothing but "patch", it's always added more to the language and upgraded it. So it's the correct technical term to use.

Cheers,

Rich

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Fallout
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 16:27
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I think "upgrade and patch" would be more accurate.

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SpecTre1
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 17:15
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Hey Rich, what happened to the Shareware question? Is it for newsletter 7?

New to DBPro comin from AMOS on the Amiga!
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 18:17
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Think yourself lucky we're not calling them "service packs" Even Microsoft doesn't release "patches". None of the major software houses do infact, so nor will we.

SpecTre - if its in my mail folder, yup.

Cheers,

Rich

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 20:08
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lol... Discreet call them both...
Service Pack Patch 5.0.0 to 5.1.0 and Service Pack Patch 5.1.0 to 5.1.1

to be hones though i'd rather these were Patchs and more emphasis put into Fixxes rather than Engine upgrades. But thats just me i suppose.

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Fallout
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Posted: 21st Jun 2003 20:27
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Rich, you cannot use the phrase "Even Microsoft doesn't release "patches". "! You know Microsoft is a unique combination of incredible marketting and bollocks software. Are you sure you want to draw a comparison there?

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Rob K
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2003 02:16
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It IS a "patch", because it is still fixing things which should have been working at release. Maybe I may resign to using the term "upgrade" by P7 or sometime in 2004.

The term "Update" would be OK, as it implies both of those things. The term "Serive Pack" is OK as well.

Still, this is largely irrelevant.

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Fallout
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2003 04:39
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I like "upgrade and patch". Nice and explanitory.

Machine: P4 2200, 1GB RAM, GeForce4 64MB, Audigy Platinum
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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2003 04:46
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Hmmm, so who wants to take bets as to when erm 'upgrades' are no longer free.

Hides...

l8r,
Kevin Picone
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2003 04:54
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:: cough-darkmatter2time-cough ::

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Dave J
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2003 09:17
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Quote: "I like "upgrade and patch". Nice and explanitory."


Yes, but who wants to say "There's going to be a special effects feature in Upgrade and Patch 5"

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2003 13:01
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lol ... why not just call it an update?

"in Update 5.0 we're planning to expand the 3D Engine to include full HLSL support as well as fixxing that annoying bug which runs around the screen when playing for more than 2minutes"

the word covers it all really

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2003 14:17
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"You know Microsoft is a unique combination of incredible marketting and bollocks software. Are you sure you want to draw a comparison there?"

And the operating system you use is?

Say no more.

For all their "faults" there's no software company as successful. Ever. From a business perspective you have to admire it (cue various flame threads about how they're evil, anti-competitive, blah blah please save it, who gives a shit? blah blah).

kev - "Hmmm, so who wants to take bets as to when erm 'upgrades' are no longer free."

Bet whatever you like, I'll see you and double-it.

"It IS a "patch", because it is still fixing things which should have been working at release."

If you want to get anal about it.. it IS an Upgrade because it's adding things that never existed at release.

But you're right, it's mostly irrelevant now. Call it whatever you like, but don't moan when searcing for "patch" on the new site brings up no results beyond 4.1.

Cheers,

Rich

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Fallout
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2003 14:32
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Ahh yeah. I dont deny microsofts achievements, but if they'd never got a monopoly on the home PC market, everyone would be using linux (for example) because it actually work properly. Windows is good, and operating systems are without a doubt some of the most complex and difficult systems to write - it's just that with Microsoft dominating the market, and most software written for windows, they can get away with a lot of things, and they do. They've had catastrophic bugs in every operating system they've released. Now, DB might have some major bugs too, but at least if DB fails, your computer still works.

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xtom
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2003 15:00 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2003 15:01
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Doesn't matter to me if it's called a patch or an upgrade, so long as it fixes bugs and improves the language it's all good.

Cool issue btw.
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Nilrem
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I'm an avid linux (Debian) user, but I will use XP Pro over Debian anyday, no.. I will even use Win98 over Debian anyday due to the huge compatability issues.

As for the self memory flushing feature (something I love about Linux) if Microsoft implimented that then I would say no more Linux ever for me (except for my servers, linux was purpose built for that in my eyes as it is far more secure, though an unsecured linux box is worse then a secured windows box).

Ok enough blabbing for now, this has gotten way off topic, this happens in every single thread I have seen that is greater then 5 posts.



I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
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Shadow Robert
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Quote: "(cue various flame threads about how they're evil, anti-competitive, blah blah please save it, who gives a s**t? blah blah)."


i know i don't care ... my favourite 2 Operating System are WindowsXP and AmigaOS XL

I could go down the list one-by-one on how WindowsXP and Windows Server 2003 can outperform and generally better any Linux based OS, and you know the amusing thing ...

next to AmigaOS XL and the up comming AmigaOS Alpha, WindowsXP looks like it is a simple amature affair.

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2003 16:28 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2003 16:31
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Personally, I prefer either BeOS or RISC OS (the latter being the best). In addition, the Archimedies was the second computer where I had commercial success (the first being the C64).

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Rob K
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2003 17:57 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2003 18:00
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"And the operating system you use is?"

Knoppix/Mandrake for everything except DB. MacOS is a better OS, but it falls flat because of the price of a Mac.

"and generally better any Linux based OS, and you know the amusing thing ... "

That seriously depends on the application. Web-hosting is a notable example. IIS on Windows is VERY slow in my experience compared to Apache on Linux, or FreeBSD. BeOS is nice, it just hasn't got the support.

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Fallout
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I dont claim to know everything about Linux and Windows XP. I'm only a user, so I can only tell you how they feel, but I do claim to know university professors who know both operating systems implicitly. They think Linux is far superior. I've had to sit through countless lectures where the topic is brought off at a tangent and they rattle on about linux. Not exactly interesting, but their arguments make a lot of sense.

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2003 02:20
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Mac OS *YUK*. OSX is to operating systems what monster trucks are to cars: Obese and unecessary.

As for linux over Windows. Security is a moot point as all security is easily bypassed with minimal effort. Useability, functionality and brute power is what I judge an OS by, and Linux doesn't cut it. Windows scores a token point for effort and Amiga OS goes home with the nobel prize. Mac OSX? Invalid entry, it's not an operating system.

Pneumatic Dryll
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Shadow Robert
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Quote: " IIS on Windows is VERY slow in my experience compared to Apache on Linux"


yes it is, but most people use Apache in Windows now, heck even Windows Server 2003 uses it within its .Net Framework 1.2 ... So saying that Unix is better than Windows on that front is really passé, no?

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Richard Davey
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"I prefer either BeOS or RISC OS"

RISC OS I'll give you, it was way ahead of it's time (although still didn't compare to the Amiga). BeOS was a waste of time though, reminded me of those anorak wearing BBC owners from school. Never did like those BBC's.. ick.

"Web-hosting is a notable example. IIS on Windows is VERY slow"

LOL, whatever. Personally I wouldn't touch a Linux box for web hosting, FreeBSD or any real Unix variant all the way. As for IIS being "slow" sorry but I could just die laughing reading stuff like that. We built the entire Aardman Animations web site, running purely from 2 Windows 2000 servers (IIS of course, SQL Server, custom XML interface for data exchange) and let's just say it copes with far far more traffic than a lot of other sites out there. A well configured Windows server on quality hardware is just as reliable as anything else. The problem with Windows servers is simply that the cost of operating them is significantly higher - you need quality hardware, lots of licenses (SQL Server Enterprise.. hmm.. cheap.. NOT) and you need to know your shit when it comes to configuring them. But that's why so many large companies used us ;P

The one thing I do love about Linux boxes is watching people who think they're "it" because they use it, screw it all up by messing around with a random command they don't know the parmeters for while logged in as root. Beautiful. sudo people, sudo...

I'll never give up my XP box for my daily work. And I'll never let the DB site run on anything but FreeBSD Unix, it's simply the best.

Cheers,

Rich

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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2003 10:37
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Haha IIS is not slow, you just gotta use it dedicated. Preferably on a decent machine.

Although i never use it

APACHE on win32 is on the other hand quite a good choice. Cause of the security software you can get for win32 out does linux software most of the time you can get a very secure APACHE server running on win32.

Stick in a linux firewall and you're off.

PHP, PERL, APACHE, C, PYTHON, MYSQL etc. all work on the windows OS, so why not use it .

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
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MrTAToad
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AmigaOS was good, but was hampered by the fact that, if you didn't have a hard drive, booting was very slow.

Had Blitz Basic for the Amiga - was very bugged (hence the reason I didn't get BB again) - did a version of Walker for the Amiga (complete with morphing title sequence using Deuluxe Paint 3), and a 2D racing game.
Didn't really get into programming the Amiga as a) it could be very very hard, and b) Commodore went bust, and I sold my A600 shortly afterwards at a car boot sale.

Yes BeOS was a waste - wouldn't have been in Be Inc. didn't got bust too...

There used to be a pattern here - whenever I got a machine, at some point the company would got bust.

The main advantage RiscOS had was that it was in ROM (512Mb for everything up to RiscPC - 1Gb I think for Risc OS 6 now), making boot times very fast. WIMP programming was very easy too, especially in BASIC. Lovely desktop too... I'm probably repeating myself ad nausem here (but why not?), but the Acorn version Walker 2 was written completely in BASIC, and it ran very fast (too fast on a RiscPC)

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Shadow Robert
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Quote: "AmigaOS was good"

whats with the past tense, its still going (^_^)
Although yeah without a HDD booting took a few seconds, it still booted one hell of alot quicker from floppy than Win3.1 did from HDD

Amiga programming was fun especially with stuff like AMOS and AmigaC, i never got into the whole BlitzBasic thing. The Basic syntax was weird (atleast after AMOS) and its overall abilities were kinda bland, don't think i ever saw anything useful come out of PD which was developed in it... there were alot of good AMOS games though.

Tell you what i would've loved to have also had an Acorn, my friend had one (the one who's currently my business partner) but he lived like 50-60miles north in Chelmsford at the time, so i only got to check out what he was doing on it every few months ... but which point we'd both seen QuakeC and loved pissing about with it.
(i know it ain't a real programming language but it was fun to use)

... ...
as for the IIS servers, they're only faster on Dedicated Servers and in the hands of those who know howto configure them - whereas an Apache Server is pretty much idiot proof for even a standard system.
But Windows Server 2003 really has changed alot about the setup of Microsoft Networking.
Even i've been able to setup a Server2003 system (which is certainly saying something lol)

Love 'em or Hate 'em - Mircosoft do produce some damn fine OSs

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2003 14:09
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Well, until the Amiga is properly sold in stores here, then it will be past tense.

I certainly made a mistake getting BB - should have gone for AMOS really...

Love 'em or Hate 'em - Mircosoft do produce some damn fine OSs
And Longhorn should be great...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Blanka
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2003 17:51
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Again.... by the end, your left wondering what the original topic was about...
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MrTAToad
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I know - gets a trifle annoying, doesn't it ?

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Shadow Robert
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the topic was about the newsletter6 (hense the title)
and the entire thread when like this

New Newsletter -> Lee on Patch5 -> No Longer Called Patch5 now Upgrade5 -> Big long talk about what the patchs should now be called (not that anything we say will make a difference but we like to fool ourselves into thinking we do have a say) -> Onto not calling it a Service Pack in comes Microsoft -> Inevitable Mircosoft-Linux comments -> Drawn onto the Better OSs on the Better PC Systems (in particular the god of all PC's the Amiga )

(^_^) i think thats the general ghist

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Martyn Pittuck
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Posted: 25th Jun 2003 10:58
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Haha

I had an acorn. I had a Tape and a CD Drive for it. Ha about 2 CD's

Takes ages to go though them, have thousands of apps on em. Also the inbuilt programming languages got me started on computers.

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
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MrTAToad
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I presume you mean a BBC Micro...

Yes, they were quite good fun.

If only Acorn had pushed their (later) machines much more, then we'll probably all be using Archimedies...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Martyn Pittuck
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Nope

Acorn Archimedies RISOS ?5? (or 3)

hehe, we botched a volume nob onto the front plate.

Also had quite a lot of software for it, even Wolvenstien 3D

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
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MrTAToad
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OS 3 was the A3000
OS 3.1 Was the A3010/3020
OS 5 is think is on the latest machines (and are vastly overpriced).

Yes, Wolfenstein was very good. Quake was also availiable for it, along with a fair few other 'famous' ones.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 26th Jun 2003 17:17
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Well just look at how long Amiga actually held onto the market after they went bankrupt ... that was amazing, they actually went bust in Summer 1994 ... it was officially said they'd gone under and been bought out by Gateway in 95, and in 97 2 Gateway Employees bought Gateway's shares out and still own it outright today.

But as Amiga weren't officially called dead until late 95, it think it was amazing especially as i know people still buying thier units in 97
Acorn were really the forgotten company as they never did push thier hardware even slightly ... Amiga we're advertised on TV at one point but Acorn it was like getting blood out of a stone finding out new information.
If Amiga hadn't slumped into the "if it ain't broke don't fixx it" attitude which you just can't have in an ever changing industry, they might've actually survived long enough to bring prices down to compete along side the PC, Macintosh, IBM & Sun.

I pride myself that i don't kill...
well not without a good reason
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MrTAToad
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 26th Jun 2003 17:38 Edited at: 26th Jun 2003 17:39
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Indeed - most of the problems are always caused by 'The Managment'.
Acorn never advertised (except in Acorn magazines), and by the end, Commodore just had bad management.

Apple could really help themselves by getting machines into Dixons/Curry's (and not just PC World), and agressively reduce prices. They made a mistake by stopping third party manufacturers making clones. But then Apple are rather arrogent (much like Microsoft).

Its a shame really as we would probably all be using faster computers by now if we didn't have to stick with AMD/Intel processors, which are extremely poorly designed (mostly CISC with microcode).

What they need to do for the 2nd generation on 64-bit processors is dump backwards compatability, and re-design it, preferablly going fully RISC.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Hamish McHaggis
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Location: Modgnik Detinu
Posted: 26th Jun 2003 20:36
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Going back to the new name for the patches, how about "Amelioration"? It means the same thing (according to the dictionary ), sounds stupid and no-one knows what it means.

Sorry for changing the topic... carry on!

cuRant PRogekt: a three-de map editer
Why the hell'd you ask me for crying out loud!?!
Athelon XP 1400 Plus - Nvidia Geforce MX400 - 256mb RAM
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Nilrem
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 27th Jun 2003 01:34
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Hamish I'm sure you just went offtopic on the offtopic.


I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
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