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FPS Creator X10 / Wizardofid review X10

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wizard of id
18
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Joined: 16th Jan 2006
Location: Sunny South Africa
Posted: 18th Jan 2008 20:09
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Well here is my review of the software.

At first I was wow!!!neat!!!

After enough time playing around with X10 I'm sorely dissapointed in X10 not that X9 is any better.

X10 is still X9.Confused?hat
Well let me explain X10 has all these neat new features take it all away and you sit with a dead standard X9 graphical screenshot and I'm not joking.The lightmapping is "unchanged" darklights by the looks of it has moved from X9 to X10 unchanged in graphical but should have changed in code.

I'm pretty sure the engine needed to be build from the ground up again to allow the new features.I'm sure that X9 code was moved over edited as need and the gaps filled.I do not think that this has been build a new.Sensible thing todo saves time and money.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Build times are back to square one.Full light mapping is completely out of the question...You will have to go on holiday to see 300 or more lights being build...

Lightmap quality has to be manually increased in the setup.ini.
I find it sneaky and down right disgusting that features having been fiddled with to increase speed on build times at the cost of visuals.

The problem needed to be addressed not visually impaired as a quick fix.

Lightmapping is not on par with what it use to be with X9 small range light casts a well enough shadow.In X10 it's required that the light range be upto 3 time bigger than normal to get a nice long shadow if you lucky.

Fog has being improved and is very good a little tweaking is required to bring it closer to the player.

I see some new lines in the setup.ini and some old ones.

Overall a good improvement over X9 but falls short of what is expected of using DirectX10....

Pointless Assault video
http://w13.easy-share.com/1408971.html
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Slayer222
17
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Joined: 19th Mar 2007
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Posted: 18th Jan 2008 20:47
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Um, what about the most important thing, performance. I mean I'm cool with the graphics lovers but really the only reason I'm buying X10 is for the GPU instancing and hopefully the ability to make games packed with entities and characters without lag. The rest of it is second class to me. Rag-doll, improved AI and water are also great but I would probably still buy X10 without.

[img]
[/img] Check out the Elite OPS Terrorstike thread in the showcase.
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wizard of id
18
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Joined: 16th Jan 2006
Location: Sunny South Africa
Posted: 18th Jan 2008 21:06
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Quote: "Um, what about the most important thing, performance. I mean I'm cool with the graphics lovers but really the only reason I'm buying X10 is for the GPU instancing and hopefully the ability to make games packed with entities and characters without lag. The rest of it is second class to me. Rag-doll, improved AI and water are also great but I would probably still buy X10 without."


I think the biggest reason would be graphics that have been improved over X9 the other stuff is nice little added features.

The main thing with this software is getting comericial quality games which it still falls short of.

A lot of features that are very important have been left out completely which is very dissapointing since it could have been added before hand first time around...

I'm not sure how supportive X10 will be for new shaders but it would help a bunch.

Another thing that is missed is the features that was shown in the X10 video at the nvidia show...A lot of stuff have been removed that was said to be included in X10...which is false advertising....

Pointless Assault video
http://w13.easy-share.com/1408971.html
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Seth Black
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
19
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Joined: 22nd Feb 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posted: 18th Jan 2008 21:17
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Quote: "...which is false advertising...."


...it's happened before.


Widow 13 - ©2008 Harsh Games, Inc
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Snipesoul
17
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Location: Somewhere in New York...
Posted: 18th Jan 2008 21:26
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I emailed Lee before and he said he might add the Depth of Field shader in the future... something that was mentioned in the X10 video at the NVIDIA show.

Snipe to Success
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shadow651
17
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Joined: 15th Apr 2007
Location: kicking it with my hommie darth V
Posted: 18th Jan 2008 22:04
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Quote: "comericial quality"

it is commericial quility just not professional the engine is for indie devolpers and indie devolpers dont make professional games your aiming your standards up with todays pro games like crysis when you should compare it to indie games of today

[
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Uthink
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Location: State of Confusion
Posted: 18th Jan 2008 22:09
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I have to admit, that while I was excited to see ragdoll, I was heartbroken to see collision problems as my victims would collapse on entities like the pipes in MP16 and have their limbs rest halfway through the sides of the pipe. That really kills the professional look.

"I'm trying to find new ways to make this game more attractive." - Dennis Rodman
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Slayer222
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Posted: 18th Jan 2008 22:13 Edited at: 18th Jan 2008 22:14
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Every game has problems like that, even Crysis.

[img]
[/img] Check out the Elite OPS Terrorstike thread in the showcase.
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wizard of id
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Location: Sunny South Africa
Posted: 18th Jan 2008 22:36
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Quote: "Every game has problems like that, even Crysis."
With crysis they fix it at least and don't just move on to DirectX11.

Quote: "I emailed Lee before and he said he might add the Depth of Field shader in the future... something that was mentioned in the X10 video at the NVIDIA show."
That is my gripe with this whole thing it was left out without any word and the end user must except whatever...

TGC is has a poor PR approach that needs to be work on.Rather come clean and every thing would have been fine...

I'm dissapointed in the fact that you can't use full light mapping at all due to the slow build times my textured floor grates don't even work with meduim light mapping like it did in X9 it requires full light mapping.

Don't get me wrong..I love FPSC but it's has flaws that could have been fixed a long time ago.

Just to give you a good example a 4 x 4 room with a single light and a grate enetity takes 30mins to build how do you justify such building times.....

this takes 30 mins on full light mapping to build...


Pointless Assault video
http://w13.easy-share.com/1408971.html
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shadow651
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Posted: 18th Jan 2008 23:19
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took the same time when the original fpsc came out just give it time this is still early stages

[
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Slayer222
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Posted: 18th Jan 2008 23:31
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Quote: "With crysis they fix it at least and don't just move on to DirectX11"
First of, EA's running this operation... I doubt it will ever be fixed. Second DX11 doesn't exist yet, thanks goodness.

[img]
[/img] Check out the Elite OPS Terrorstike thread in the showcase.
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alimpo83
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Posted: 18th Jan 2008 23:32
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I'm sorry to say you probably have viruses on your computer, or at least something is not updated, since I compiled a small level(but that has a big terrain for the game i'm working on) in about 2 minutes. Really, it's something with your computer, for sure.
FPSC X10 is not perfect, but it will not take that long to compile a small level like yours.

My PC specs, that are very mid/low end

Core Duo e2140 1.6GHZx2 OC'd at 2.0 GHZx2
2 Gb DDR II 667 MHZ Kingston
160 gb Hitachi
80 gb Hitachi(with XP, don't use it in Vista)
HD 2600 XT 512 Mb GDDR3 Super with latest drivers, never overclocked

all backed up by a Silicon Graphics USB Pen Hi Speed, with 2 Gb. That helps a lot, with all that runs in Vista(in games like MOH:Airborne),including FPSC X10. It's really great!

BUY ALIEN ENTITY PACK HERE : http://www.freewebs.com/alimpo83
Check my X10 WW2 Pack here:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=120345&b=3
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Slayer222
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Posted: 18th Jan 2008 23:44
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Um I run MOHA on my 7800GT 256 easily on high. I also have a crappy AMD 64 and 1 GB or RAM.

[img]
[/img] Check out the Elite OPS Terrorstike thread in the showcase.
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alimpo83
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Posted: 18th Jan 2008 23:54
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I said in Vista. In Xp I always ran MOH in full specs at 1280x1024.

BUY ALIEN ENTITY PACK HERE : http://www.freewebs.com/alimpo83
Check my X10 WW2 Pack here:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=120345&b=3
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xplosys
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Joined: 5th Jan 2006
Playing: FPSC Multiplayer Games
Posted: 18th Jan 2008 23:54
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Quote: "took the same time when the original fpsc came out just give it time this is still early stages"


I have to agree with this. I won't get into releasing a product in "less than ready" condition, as that is relative and certainly a common practice, but I think (I hope) that X10 will see the same improvements over time that X9 has seen. X9 is much better than when I started using it 2 years ago.

I also was not impressed with X10. Aside from some touted new features, I found it to be the same slow, erratic, error prone engine as X9. So I'll put mine away for a while and continue to play with X9. I believe that fixes and improvements will come in time. I have also found Vista to be very slow, and until I use both of them more, I won't entirely put the blame on X10.

Best.

fpsFREE.com - for FREE FPSC Content
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Fruitless CRUNK
17
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Joined: 3rd Mar 2007
Location: DRINKING MY HOT COFFEE =:-)
Posted: 19th Jan 2008 00:24
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I'm on both sides of the fight here. I agree, FPSCX10 dose need some working on and TGC needs to live up to what they say rather than false advertising. But the FPSCX10 is the only home game creator with 10 power.

Ok I'm mostley on the agenst FPSCX10. I wouldn't mind..... ooo wate...... I want the Depth of Field in FPSCX10! It's cinda the reason I bought FPSX10. Did FPSCX10 have it....... NO...... Did FPSCX10 have the control over the smoke like they sed they would have....... NO!

BOOM!!!!!! HEAD SHOT!!!
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Uthink
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Location: State of Confusion
Posted: 19th Jan 2008 00:38
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I've been hearing people speak about patience and give it time for quite a while. This isn't a matter of time. More of a matter of resources. Sounds like there just aren't enough developers dedicated to FPSC.

"I'm trying to find new ways to make this game more attractive." - Dennis Rodman
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Keo C
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Posted: 19th Jan 2008 05:18 Edited at: 19th Jan 2008 05:19
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I'm pretty sure the DirectX10 part, is the features tied to Shader Model 4.0 and some other things. (Warning, do not quote me on this.)


Image made by the overworked Biggadd.
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Silvester
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Posted: 19th Jan 2008 09:07
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Quote: "I've been hearing people speak about patience and give it time for quite a while. This isn't a matter of time. More of a matter of resources. Sounds like there just aren't enough developers dedicated to FPSC."


Lee is the only one programming on FPS Creator as far as I know. that is why it takes to long.

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Uthink
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Posted: 19th Jan 2008 15:25
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Quote: "Lee is the only one programming on FPS Creator as far as I know. that is why it takes to long."


If that's true, that's a horrible business practice. I would venture to say that the success is based on a niche market that's growing because of the growing popularity of gaming rather than customer satisfaction. This would be a significant problem in the near future as X9 users want improvements at the same time X10 users do.

"I'm trying to find new ways to make this game more attractive." - Dennis Rodman
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Satchmo
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Posted: 19th Jan 2008 15:48
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Mike Johnson(I think) helps Lee.

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Uthink
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Posted: 19th Jan 2008 16:11
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Admittedly I know nothing about the internal workings at TGC. But just a swag tells me you'd need 3 teams now of 3 developers. One dedicated to X10, one dedicated to X9, and one just to working bugs. Of course I don't know the future of the X9 version but Lee has said that he's working to address the framerate issue with X9, so clearly they're not ready to just let X9 die soon.

"I'm trying to find new ways to make this game more attractive." - Dennis Rodman
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Nomad Soul
Moderator
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Posted: 19th Jan 2008 17:18
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Ok

Lets address a few things here.

FPSC X10 is totally capable of producing a commercial quality game.

The shader support is ridiculously better than X9 even without depth of field for the time being.

Dont know whats going on with your build times but with my custom made crossfire configuration FPSC X10 is eating up my maps regardless if I have 1 light in a room or 10.

For lightmapping quality you need to select 'for best quality' option in build preferences and manually adjust the lightmapping quality in the setup.fpi.

Bearing in mind the default lightmapping quality is 10, try changing this to 100 and I don't think you'll have an issue with them anymore.

Don't let 1 shader effect impair your judgement on what is otherwise the best state of the art game development software in the world.
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Cheese Cake
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Posted: 19th Jan 2008 21:32
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I have tested it, and yeah...the build game also works fine for me...just like it did with Nomad & alimpo83.

Shaders work better than they did in X9.
This time they truly work on Segments and both static & dynamic entities.

AI is somewhat better, and also this time you can have allies without modding or coding the source.

Water is already available.

So i think X10 is much better than X9 is...
and it is possible to make an commercial game with it.
easier than X9, but still you would have to put a lot of work into it.

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Uthink
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Posted: 19th Jan 2008 23:31
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I've a lot to learn about X10. I think we're all using different definitions of 'Commercial Quality.' One thing you have to decide is, does this mean matching the options and features provided by commercial games that are currently coming on the market?

A second thing to think about, is it fair the say that it falls short just because your scripting skills aren't top notch? Also, is it really fair to note that X10 is better than X9? X9 was a great learning tool for me. But the standard it set was rather low if we're talking about Commercial Quality. So saying it's better than X9 doesn't mean what it should. Should we compare it to other engines instead?

"I'm trying to find new ways to make this game more attractive." - Dennis Rodman
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Airslide
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Posted: 19th Jan 2008 23:37
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I think X10 is way better than X9, for the timer-based system if nothing else. I can't really comment on the lightmapping issues, as the lightmapping doesn't seem any worse for me (and if you can improve it by modifying the setup.ini file, who cares?). As for the speed, what processor do you have? I have a quad-core which compiles lightmaps amazingly fast so I haven't had any problems in this area. Of course, full quality lightmaps take about as long as quick lightmaps took for my old computer, but I only use those in a final build of a map.

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Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
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Posted: 20th Jan 2008 01:40 Edited at: 20th Jan 2008 01:48
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I agree with Nomad Soul & Airslide.
This is the best FPS game making software out there for the buck as far as ease of use and customization accessibility.
The only limitations other than your imagination are your computer specs and your knowledge/use of the product.

As far as commercial quality, that depends on your definition.
I know that it won't be hard for me to earn back the cost of FPSC X10 by selling the games that I create with it (or the media that I create for it).

As far as Lee being the only one programming FPSC, well that is up to Lee, Mike, and TGC.
Maybe having more than one cook in the kitchen isn't such a good idea.
Yeah, there might be a lot of people to serve, but think of this as a sit down restaurant and not a fast food carry out.
I've had my appetizer (FPSC) and my steak (FPSC X10), now all I need is desert, so I can't wait to see what Lee cooks up next!

To each his own, but I am glad that I purchased FPSC X10. Keep up the good work TGC!

No, I didn't forget the Vino, that is model pack #17!

Don't forget to visit Conjured Entertainment

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griffx
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Posted: 20th Jan 2008 02:45
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nomad soul, can you give us some details of the changes in your setup.ini - i would do anything to get x10 to work better, expecially the lighting. . .

also, is there any what to shape the light, such as a cone - i assume everything is a large ball or light? would like to aim light, like a spotlight . . .

quad core, 8800gts w/ 640 dedicated plus 1gb shares, 1TB, ok i guess . . .
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