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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Open Source 3D Engine?

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Eddie Gordo
23
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Joined: 14th Jan 2003
Location: Ohio - USA
Posted: 26th Jun 2003 22:14 Edited at: 26th Jun 2003 22:15
if u wrote the functions that draw the images to the screen, via lines and such, like using complex calculations and variable could i write a new 3d enginge in Dark Basic Pro for dark basic pro...

its intrigueing, isnt it...

i wonder...

BTW if i did this would it be faster or just really slooooooooooooooow.

In our hearts and minds we keep the powers of love, hope and the hidden powers of evil in which we can mold a hero or daemon of ourselves-Book of Enoch Chapter III
MrTAToad
23
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 26th Jun 2003 22:39
It would be slow.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Eddie Gordo
23
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Joined: 14th Jan 2003
Location: Ohio - USA
Posted: 26th Jun 2003 22:40
O...I SEE...im gonna do it anyway just to if i can get 1 or 2 good commands out of it. any other opinions/thoughts

not that that was an opinion it was a fact, no offense meant

In our hearts and minds we keep the powers of love, hope and the hidden powers of evil in which we can mold a hero or daemon of ourselves-Book of Enoch Chapter III
Eddie Gordo
23
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Joined: 14th Jan 2003
Location: Ohio - USA
Posted: 26th Jun 2003 23:14 Edited at: 26th Jun 2003 23:29
and anyone know of a place to find some of these equations cause i could make em up but im kinda lazy,

wait i can see it now the dark basic pro custom engine writen by me open source,special 3d formats...


sorry i was sleeping it was a wonderful dream, i think it would be fun to make...

maybe i could make it only draw to screen what it has to...

In our hearts and minds we keep the powers of love, hope and the hidden powers of evil in which we can mold a hero or daemon of ourselves-Book of Enoch Chapter III
Eddie Gordo
23
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Joined: 14th Jan 2003
Location: Ohio - USA
Posted: 27th Jun 2003 00:07 Edited at: 27th Jun 2003 00:08
I'm gonna do it over the weekend i plan on making these features

Features:
New Object Format
.Hat (inside joke to name mattman knows where its from)

Modify the Objects Properties Fur,Built in Cartoon Shader and other micellanios (arg gramatical nightmare) things IE light and sphere mapping (no shader compatibility required)

Lights (for the 3D scenes(more than 8))

Matrixes (that aren't slow and are bigger than 128x128)

Auto-Physics

and some sort of bridge between the direct x parts maybe

sound interesting? just a start...

In our hearts and minds we keep the powers of love, hope and the hidden powers of evil in which we can mold a hero or daemon of ourselves-Book of Enoch Chapter III
Rob K
Retired Moderator
23
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Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 27th Jun 2003 00:59
Deja-vu

Do you want Windows menus in your DBP apps? - Get my plugin: http://snow.prohosting.com/~clone99/downloads/tpc_menus_103.zip
Eddie Gordo
23
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Joined: 14th Jan 2003
Location: Ohio - USA
Posted: 27th Jun 2003 01:02
from?...

In our hearts and minds we keep the powers of love, hope and the hidden powers of evil in which we can mold a hero or daemon of ourselves-Book of Enoch Chapter III
Eddie Gordo
23
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Joined: 14th Jan 2003
Location: Ohio - USA
Posted: 27th Jun 2003 01:03
oh you mean that thing i was making way back in the day, artifact or somthing, this is a DBPro thing not its own enginge just complex functions and stuff.

did you mean somthing else...

In our hearts and minds we keep the powers of love, hope and the hidden powers of evil in which we can mold a hero or daemon of ourselves-Book of Enoch Chapter III
MrTAToad
23
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 27th Jun 2003 01:04
You'll be lucky to get more than 8 lights...

The whole project seems to be slightly over optimistic...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Eddie Gordo
23
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Joined: 14th Jan 2003
Location: Ohio - USA
Posted: 27th Jun 2003 01:05
i know, but i wanna do it just for fun, i think it may be cool.

over 8 will be a slow down i know.

In our hearts and minds we keep the powers of love, hope and the hidden powers of evil in which we can mold a hero or daemon of ourselves-Book of Enoch Chapter III
MrTAToad
23
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 27th Jun 2003 01:45
Hmmm, no, DX8/9 wont allow you to have more than 8...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
qwertzuiop
23
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Joined: 12th May 2003
Location: Cyberspace
Posted: 27th Jun 2003 01:52
You can't create more than 8...
drarem
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Posted: 27th Jun 2003 02:01
what would really be desired is something that saves .3DS files... and keep it resource-light and freeee!!!!!

Shadow Robert
23
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 27th Jun 2003 02:15
nope can't create more than 8 hardware lights... thats not to say you can't create more than that as software - but i wouldn't wanna be in a scene with more than 12 on even a relatively powerful system

I pride myself that i don't kill...
well not without a good reason
IanM
Retired Moderator
23
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Joined: 11th Sep 2002
Location: In my moon base
Posted: 27th Jun 2003 02:23
It never hurts to try it yourself. I've written my own line drawing routines, triangle routines and polygon routines over time. It really makes you appreciate how easy things are these days.

You can have as many light sources as you like it you put the effort in. Kevils lightmaps are proof of this - of course, I don't think you'll be able to do it in real-time, but you would find out how it all works.
The Wendigo
23
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Joined: 13th Sep 2002
Location: A hole near the base of a tree in the US
Posted: 27th Jun 2003 07:33
It's all about light maps. I have an engine that supports 300 (currently) lights. Just got a fat DBP glitch that needs to get fixed before I do anything with it (it appears I can't use more than one lightmap, but I've been testing it on normal textures). Yes, I have emailed Lee several times about the glitch, but my engine supports real-time calculation at good speeds (though, i would definetely only use one or two dynamic lights). There is virtually no framehit when using a 32x32 size lightmap, but my lightmap supports maps as high as (and probably beyond) 512x512 size 32bit lightmaps. it kicks @$$, but has a few bugs and I need to add the 3rd dimension of rotation to it (just works on x and z) and sofar it only works on plains (but that's all i really need).

Current Projects: Game Spawn 85%, mini BSP maker 50%, Height Mapper with many features 75%, Space Tactical (Like BC300AD) 15%.
Eddie Gordo
23
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Location: Ohio - USA
Posted: 30th Jun 2003 20:35
i officially apreciate the simplicity of DBPro now, no more programming 3d engines for me.

In our hearts and minds we keep the powers of love, hope and the hidden powers of evil in which we can mold a hero or daemon of ourselves-Book of Enoch Chapter III
IanM
Retired Moderator
23
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Location: In my moon base
Posted: 30th Jun 2003 20:49
I did say that it makes you appreciate how easy things are now
Eddie Gordo
23
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Joined: 14th Jan 2003
Location: Ohio - USA
Posted: 30th Jun 2003 21:02
yes it does...very very much

In our hearts and minds we keep the powers of love, hope and the hidden powers of evil in which we can mold a hero or daemon of ourselves-Book of Enoch Chapter III
Kevin Picone
23
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Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Australia
Posted: 1st Jul 2003 00:58
About this time last year I found a need to write software render engine in DB classic. While it ended up being ported and fleshed out in Blitz2D (it's used in Visible Worlds, that version is faster than these) You could can get a reasonable frame rate in DB classic version with just filled faces and short clipping distance.

The main issue is Z buffering the scene. Both of the following demos (from last year) uses polygon level Z buffering. Meaning each face (within view) is sorted upon it's average Z depth from the camera and drawn using painters algorithm (back to front). While this is fast, it has one key problem, polygons can't intersect. In the days before hardware polygon renders, this is pretty much how the majority of software engines worked.

Hardware renders on the other hand calculate Z upon a per pixel basis (actually this is rare, if at all !), this allows faces to easily intersect other faces, but comes at a price. The cost of calculating Z per pixel is extremely expensive. (1 div and 2 mults and a compare per pixel drawn) Doing this in software and getting it to even run/move, let alone at a reasonable frame rate is quiet a challenge on it's own. The obvious solution is rather than calc perspective Z every pixel, calc spans of correct Z and linearly interpolate between them. This is how my never software engine works in Visible Worlds. The trade off, is some Z shearing when faces intersect.

The best solution for software render would be a Span Buffer. A span buffer holds the scene as a series of horizontal spans/strips. Rather than render a poylgon to the frame buffer with brute force, we convert it to spans and look for intersection/clip it against any existing spans in the display buffer. Each scan line has a span buffer. While giving a better (cleaner) result, it's not the easiest of implement and is equally clumsy with high levels of polygon geometry. The up side to this technique is that is allow you to only render the 'spans' that are visible. Giving an almost flat performance.

Anyway, I saw this thread the other day and tried to get a version running in DBpro, while it compiles (slowly..), it sure does work properly just yet. I'll give it go when p5 is released.

Here's the old demos for the time being.

http://www.underwaredesign.com/files/pub/TechDemos/UW3D_SoftwareRenderEngineV0_16DB.zip 1 meg (DB classic version)

http://www.underwaredesign.com/files/pub/TechDemos/UW3D_SoftwareRenderEngineV0_21.zip 390k (Blitz 2D version)

l8r,
Kevin Picone
[url]www.underwaredesign.com[/url]

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