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3 Dimensional Chat / 3DWS - The Journey from Noob to Pro with Level Designing, Texturing, and Building

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2008 04:47 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2008 17:44
The reason why this was not posted in the 3DWS board is plainly blankly simply due to the amount of views to this board in contrast, and this is open to the thoughts and opinions of designers, texture drawer's, and users other level building programs as well.

For quite some time, I've been going back and forth into 3DWS and trying to replicate what marvelous work I've seen on these forums. Sometimes, it ended up alright. Other times, it just turned out absolutely positively undoubtedly terrible.

The quality work I'm aiming for has the level design genius and texture work quality of games such as Half Life 2. It's quite an endeavor, but I'm willing to give it my all.

I'm averagely average with texturing in Adobe PhotoShop CS2, and my skills with 3DWS have no current rank. Yes, I'm that bad.

Here is an example of my best work.
Pitiful.









As you can see, highly mediocre. The design is awful. It doesn't even make sense. I would never be accepted as an architect. The textures, only one or two are my own work. I'd much rather be able to draw out whatever fit best in my opinion or wisdom.

The entire building doesn't even look like a building. Most areas are just plain, blank walls. The staircase is impossible, the windows are just holes, blah blah blah. You get my point, I totally suck.



Well, the point of this post, finally, is for everyone on these forums who knows what they're doing to submit links, tutorials, tips, concepts, sketches, instructions, ANYTHING to help out those like me who know absolutely crap about what they are doing.

I'll compile all the links and info here. Most info will be something I'll just put into a word document and attach a zip link to download.

I'm hoping to learn step by step; drawing the early building concepts, building the model in 3DWS or whatever, picking out and creating fitting textures, and then lighting.


I'm most certainly asking for a lot. I beg for anyone to start helping openly. Please, just submit links to anything or anything at all. Every little bit counts.


Apart from the database of links and info, there's one thing I would like to ask specifically for anyone who thinks they've got the smarts for this stuff. Please, do the simplest building if you may, but make a small, understandable tutorial for each of those steps I have listed above.



I swear, I feel like I'm just begging selfishly, but I am keeping this an open thread, with all the information submitted held in this first post, and once I get the smarts, I'll even start creating series and series of tutorials and tips on my own.









-=Video Tutorials=-

------------JoshK's Beginner 3DWS Tutorial1------------------------
This tutorial demonstrates how to use the keyboard to control the most important features of 3DWS.
LINK: Right Click, Save as to download
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------JoshK's Beginner 3DWS Tutorial2------------------------
This tutorial instructs how to create a room scene with textured ceiling, walls, and floor. It also gives a basic preview of how to use the lighting capabilities in 3DWS.
LINK: Right Click, Save as to download
-------------------------------------------------------------------




-=Useful Tips and Rules=-

------------Form Follows Function----------------------------------
FFF- Form follows function. This is a simple, yet very useful rule that everyone should keep in mind while drawing out the concepts for a building, or actually building it. For example, there's a major flaw seen in my screenshots at the top of this first post. The awning is disproportional. It's form in of an incorrect size, so it can't really serve it's function, or purpose, which is to shade from the sun, and block rain away from the building. Form Follows Function. Keep in mind that everything you build with form, should be able to follow it's function.
(Contributed by: BenDStraw)
-------------------------------------------------------------------

------------Tile Texture Realism-----------------------------------

Before I actually thought about what this tip could mean, I would just place sloppy tiled textured around my map, and I didn't notice something rather big. There were cutoffs on the tiles that didn't even make sense! This effects the realism of your building bigtime. Having half a tile, where every other tile is whole, makes it look cheap and shabby. So always keep Tile Texture Realism in mind; scale out the texture and scroll it out accordingly in 3DWS so there are no cutoffs or anything like so.
(Contributed by: BenDStraw)
-------------------------------------------------------------------






Thanks.
Xeno.


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BenDstraw
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2008 05:45
It looks like your not as bad as you think but there is always room for improvement.

Im not sure about design so much as my self, but designing a building/room everything should have a purpose. Example being your awning Its really short which would make it not able to serve its purpose(blocking the sun, making rain fall away from the building). Just a small nitpick but you get what I mean; it applies to other parts of your building. I did a quick search around for you and I cant find anything to useful(you probaly did a search yourself) but one thing that seemed like a good thing to remember is: Form Follows Function.


as far as the 3d side of it. it looks like you have some tiling problems at the moment that can also effect the overall look.

sorry Im not as knowledgeable as you would probaly like but thats just my opinion take it with a grain of salt.

Dreams of Art Mastery Brought Me Here

Xenocythe
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2008 05:49
Ahhh, you have some good points there

I understand what was looking odd about the awning now, thank you very much.

FFF- Form Follows Function... that's a useful tip to remember. I say that to myself and start to see how to solve most of the errors in this building.

I also see your point where the tiling effects the realism of the model. All of this is going into the first post. Thanks


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BenDstraw
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2008 06:45
no problem

You'll be making kick a$$ levels in no time


-Dreams of Art Mastery Brought Me Here-

Xenocythe
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2008 17:32
I hope your right


Well, I found a couple of old video tutorials from JoshK himself, the creator of 3DWS, and they are really basic, but they're still tutorials. I'll put them up in the first post.


I've decided to start my first step by step project with this thread as my own room. I decided it'll be much easier to do, as I'm always in it.

The first post is now updated with info and those tutorial links.


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Opus
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2008 15:32 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2008 16:43
Okay, start with your own home floor plan. I am serious here. This, by the way, works even if you live in an apartment. It's just a tad bit better if you live in a full-sized house.

Give yourself a one day walk through and think about each and every room, count the bedrooms and the bedroom closets and fix their locations and general dimensions [yes, just eyeball it] in your mind; and do the same for the kitchen area the dinning room, the den, the garage, EVERYTHING.

Think you know it now? Think you know where every room is in coordinate map terms compared to every other room? Heh, heh! Go outside, walk around your dwelling, take an interest in the SHAPE of the walls [what projects outwards here and goes in there] and try [try hard] to recall what room is on the other side of the wall.

Look at the roof line, study it. Step back a bit, close your eyes and try to reproduce the lines and joints in your memory. open your eyes and see how well you did. Do you, by the way recall where all the vent stacks are?

Look at your yard, count the tree and bushes, note where the shrubbery is in relation to the walls and edges of your house. What sort of trees are they? How tall in relation to the the roof line of your house. fix in your memory the front and back yards along the same lines. Note any structures in the back yard from patio extensions to tool sheds, if any.

Whoops! What sort of fencing, if any, do you have? What's is the fence' height in visual relation to your roof line? We won't pay attention to the neighbor's homes at this time.

Okay, got all that? Really?

The next day while you are at the library or waiting for an appointment or at some friend's house set down with a pad of paper; yes you can use graph paper if you like, and draw FROM MEMORY ONLY the EXACT floor plan of your house COMPLETE with door and window openings and closets and bathrooms, kitchen, dining room, and what have you.

If it's a two story house then put the upstairs floor plan on a second piece of paper but in the same exact scale so that when you are done the upper floor WOULD logically fit in place over the lower floor.

Now, from memory, and on another piece of paper do the same for the exterior view and the roof line and plant all those trees and the driveway, roof vent stacks, and that tool shed in the back yard and those patio extensions.

Got all that? NOW use your 3d application and your sketches and recreate your home.

Once you have done all of the above you will understand architectural structure in a way that will make your 3d work come alive. Your structures will look and feel realistic because everything will make sense to the user on a subconscious level.

Yeah it's a lot of work but it is also fun and challenging. You can also do exactly the same thing with places of work. All you need is to develop your eye and your memory for details and a sketch pad.

=============================

Just to show what I am talking about, here is a floor plan sketch from memory [it had to be from memory as the house was destroyed over thirty years ago] of a place I spent some time in as a child. It was a 1920s style, working class, single family dwelling.

I still have to roof it texture it and add furnishings, but this IS the physical structure of the little house and it would FEEL like a real dwelling if we were to take a camera through it at eye level. This is because it WAS a real dwelling and because of this the furnishings, when I get around to creating them WILL work with it correctly rather than look like they were just tossed in for effect.






Eternal student in search of knowledge. But will settle for the occasional epiphany.
Xenocythe
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Posted: 4th Mar 2008 00:21
Opus, you're brilliantly awesomely amazingly the best. This is exactly what I needed. Thank you very much. I'll get started.


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Opus
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Posted: 4th Mar 2008 02:44
You are welcome Xenocythe. There are a couple of things to get down before you draw the floor plan which is that everything from the very beginning should be in correct ratio to one another.

Entry doors into a typical home are usually four inches [yes, American measurements] wider than interior doors. That 1920s house, for instance had thirty-six inch wide front and back doors, but had thirty-two inch wide interior doors. All this means is that you should make your interior door openings slightly narrower so that things LOOK in the correct scale ratio.

Along those lines, ceilings in domestic dwellings were usually eight feet above the floor, doorways were usually about seven feet-six inches. Hallway widths were only about forty-five inches in width. So forth and so on.

I hope some of this helps, and have fun!

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 16th Mar 2008 20:44
I decided I wasn't too great at making modern houses just yet.

After taking looks at many medieval/farm buildings, and collecting various textures, I made a couple of houses of my own.

All I really did was observe many other 3D buildings such as what I was looking to make. After that, I just had to use my own sense of architecture (lolz) to figure out what looked right.

Here are the two buildings.





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Roxas
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Posted: 16th Mar 2008 20:50
Amazing job ^^

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 17th Mar 2008 00:04
Thanks Roxas

I'm pretty sure they're a major improvement from before. If I'm free later, I'll make a few more models.


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Opus
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Posted: 17th Mar 2008 03:52
Your work is definitely looking better now. Congratulations!

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 17th Mar 2008 04:06
Thank you very much Opus.

I guess all it really took was a lot of observing, studying, taking mental notes on what the buildings should look like, and what makes sense where.


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Posted: 17th Mar 2008 06:54
hmm...

That little bit of examining and practicing memorization and observation really helped you out. It's almost scary.

I should start doing exercises such the same as these.

Xenocythe
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Posted: 17th Mar 2008 07:24


Honestly, I had no idea why that model up there looked so bad, and so wrong. I just had to look closely at some 3D house models that looked great, and why they did. I didn't think it would be that easy, hehe.


Tip: What makes those above models look even better is the way I put those wood bracings around, and the criss-cross design. It adds good detail and it makes sense.


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Xenocythe
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Posted: 18th Mar 2008 06:54
Made a church building in the same style. (1100 Polies)




I've decided to sell these for $5 each, they'll be ready for purchase soon.

I'll make more soon. It gets fun when you get good


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Roxas
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Posted: 18th Mar 2008 18:07
Thats nice ^^

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 18th Mar 2008 22:03
Now I made a stable (1400 polies):



And I also added wood bracings to the church and made the roof look less boxy, and now its 1600 polies (complete):



So, fellas, what do you think? Could these models be sold at $4.99 a piece? What price is worth the buy?


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Xenocythe
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Posted: 19th Mar 2008 01:50
Made a well to go along with it

670 Polies




Honestly, all you have to do is spend about 20 minutes searching google for a few good reference pics, then just model your buildings or whatever based right off of them. It's as easy as that!

So, no ones really posting... would anyone buy these models for $4.99?


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Roxas
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Posted: 19th Mar 2008 01:51
That looks good! But i think the rock texture is odd :/ Also there is some textures awesome on your building! But some needs more work

I cant say about paying.

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Alsan
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Posted: 19th Mar 2008 17:45
Looking nice! The textures need some work, as the tile repetitions are very obvious.

Though I wouldn't really think about selling these. I'd give them away for free until you are really advanced and able to make commercial quality models (e.g. like in Oblivion). Normal Maps, Specular Maps, Reflective Maps, XYZ Maps would then also be necessary.

That's just what I think, and what _I_ do. Okay, it's very tempting to see people here, making a lot of money by selling their models. But I personally would feel queasy if I'm not 100% sure they're are kickass high-end Half Life 2 quality.

My opinion on this. As I'm not speaking as a customer (I'd never ever buy models, I have a do-it-yourself-complex), it (my opinion) might not be very important.

Xenocythe
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Posted: 19th Mar 2008 18:53
Ahh, I see.

Thanks Alsan, Roxas, and Agent Dink (talked to me online)

I've come to the convlusion that I should actually UV map these...

In this case, I can create normal maps out of the UV maps acordingly, and it'll look better.

But what would you guys rate the actual model, not the texture... 1-10, 10 being perfect?


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Ian T
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Posted: 19th Mar 2008 20:11
Quote: "
But what would you guys rate the actual model, not the texture... 1-10, 10 being perfect?"


The first houses are good, the church is great on the exterior, although the scale of the pews looks dodgy; the stable... hard to say from the screenshot.

The thing is - and I've found this out the hard way trying to make environments in 3dws - scale is a real bitch. An object that looks great alone can end up feeling completely off when mixed in with a world of properly scaled things.

If you could throw these meshes onto a terrain in a DBPro demo and encrypt them into the .exe, and give the user control of the camera, I think that'd be a great tool to measure how useful they'd be.
Xenocythe
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Posted: 19th Mar 2008 20:32
Actually, that's exactly what I just did last night.

20 minutes of lightmap rendering and some coding put it in a scene. All the models in DBPro with lightmaps ran at a good 130 fps.

Thanks for the input Ian. I'll mess around with the pews and the textures of the models. Actually, I'm going to UV map all of the models now and re texture them. Except for the well, though. I think the well is looking fine without UV map.

Yeah, together in one scene, the scale was a bit off. I'm doing some rescaling as well.

Thanks for everyones input, I'll be working on this


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