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3 Dimensional Chat / Which program should I use? [ Intellectual Question Not a Which is better]

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Pet A Mizzle
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2008 03:37
Okay so I am planning on building a castle like structure with 1-3 stories big. As in 3 floors, you get the picture.

Okay! So I would like to know how I should make it. Should I use Blender, 3D World Studio, or Milkshape.

Now I have seen many things where people recommend all three, but I have allso seen where Milkshape and Blender are more for Models and 3D World Studio for Buildings and such. But, I also have seen people make WONDERFUL things with Blender and Milkshape. So by the userinterface and your prefference can you say which would you THINK is easier? Sorry if this is against the rules, I DID INFACT READ THE THREAD. Thanks!

~Petamizzle.
Paul08
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2008 13:10
I find blender difficult personally, 3d world studio would be nice if i had some spare cash lol.

Personal preference i think - get hold of some demos and see what you prefer..

The results really should be the same in the end - a 3ds, x, or dbo file etc - dont worry too much about which is best - just try them out and see what you can do with them?!

Paul
Insanity Complex
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2008 13:36
Yeah, as is usually the case, it's more about the artist than the app. It's like, I use photoshop and some gimp on the side for 2D, but I've seen folks who hate them both and work wonders with MS paint. What may seem plain and basic to one person, may be exactly what another needs. It all comes down to a need for you to experiment and find out which application suits YOUR needs best. Perhaps you could start to build the basics of your model in all three, and whichever one seems smoothest to you, continue the rest of the work in that one.




Getting between me and my morning coffee is suicide...
Opus
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2008 14:54 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2008 14:56
I think that artists, and you are an artist if you are investing so much time and energy into creating something in representational form, often make the mistake of confusing the tool with the results. You can create a masterpiece with a sharp rock and a piece of expensive garbage with the finest tool sets known to humanity.

It's the artist stu - er - student!

Heh, heh! Joking aside it really is the artist. I settled on the Gimp for 2d work and Blender for 3d because they are both the most feature rich and complete FREEWARE applications for their niches available over the Internet and I'm the type of person that wants all the bells and whistles available even if I only ever use an eighth of them and really understand fewer than that.

None of which matter. The thing is that all the applications you mentioned will allow you to produce a perfectly acceptable looking castle like structure. Currently I am building a 1920s era single family house with Blender and having no problems at all, but FIRST I had to learn to use and to think with Blenders formidable and feature rich tool sets. The application DOES have a really steep learning curve. Had I learned to use Milkshape instead, however, I would have been just as comfortable creating 'the house that Opus built.'

Now as for crafting buildings there is a freeware product supported by The Game Makers that you can instantly download and begin using after only a day or two of study and that is Google Sketchup. I've downloaded it and spent a couple of hours studying it and I feel perfectly comfortable with the notion of using it for any and all structure work because it is meant for such work and meant to be used by people who don't know 3d applications from wart removal.

Why didn't I use it to build that 1920's style house? I am already growing comfortable with Blender and I want to go on to really get the hang of working with that application first before going on to use any other 3d apps.

BUT it's all up to the individual artist. If you have the money to buy whatever you want and are not already committed to learning any one application then I would suggest you go with either Google Sketchup or 3d World Studio because both of them have been endorsed by The Game makers and both of them are, specifically are, for building structures. It's just that Google Sketchup has a freeware version and you have to pay for 3d World Studio.

Eternal student in search of knowledge. But will settle for the occasional epiphany.
RUCCUS
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2008 18:38 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2008 18:40
Wings 3D.

Just to give you an idea,



I did that in under 2 minutes. (Thats a single mesh, no primitive boxes / cylinders or whatnot, even the little kiosk thing at the bottom left).

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DB PROgrammer
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2008 20:40
I agree with RUCCUS, Wings3D is great.


I'm Pro grammer.
Pet A Mizzle
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Posted: 4th Mar 2008 01:02
I see, but is there any 'guide' or so that deals with most of the tools you use in Blender and such? I think I will go with Blender, because it's more higher quality and more specific I think. I get sometimes confused when seeing Guides though, because in a lot of the guides with modeling structures you see people box grapping [Make a box with the mouse and select multiple things] but when I try to do that I only move the mesh and stuff. I kind of would like to learn Blender for it, but have no Idea how to do most of it. So does anyone know a good guide that shows what certain things do and how to use them?

~Petamizzle.
Opus
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Posted: 4th Mar 2008 14:28
Here's the Newbies to Pro PDF file; but just a quick check. Are you IN edit mode when box selecting and do you make sure that nothing else is selected Before trying to box select?

That aside, I simply press the 'B' key and release it. This creates the cross hairs selection tool. Then with the left mouse button held down I perform the desired box selection. I release the LMB and then preform whatever process I need to on the selection; scale, rotate, grab, extrude, whatever.

Oh, and it is supposed to make a difference to the selection process itself if you are in wireframe or solid mode at the time [while also in edit mode]. Check to see if you are in vertices selection mode or in line or face selection.

If none of that works for you then consider going to the Blender.org forums and explaining your situation and your solution sets to date.

Eternal student in search of knowledge. But will settle for the occasional epiphany.

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RUCCUS
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Posted: 4th Mar 2008 17:56
im going to cherish the day when people stop thinking Wings 3D is low quality.

Alucard94
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Posted: 4th Mar 2008 20:30
I second that


3D Modeler using Blender 3D, free software ftw!
Opus
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Posted: 4th Mar 2008 21:19
Why in the world would anyone think that Wings 3d is low quality? People routinely create fantastic things with it!

Besides which, it is pretty much the artist that matters rather than the specific tool set. A good artist can perform miracles with any application.

Eternal student in search of knowledge. But will settle for the occasional epiphany.
BenDstraw
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Posted: 4th Mar 2008 22:42
it has seperate sections on the cgtalk and renderosity forums. which seems like it holds its own just fine.


-Dreams of Art Mastery Brought Me Here-

tatts
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Posted: 4th Mar 2008 23:24 Edited at: 4th Mar 2008 23:27
Deled light is free, easy to use I think too. not to mention it works well with darklights.

WindowsXP/SP2, Pentium 4 2.66 GHz, 1GB DDR Ram, Geforce 6600 256MB

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Pet A Mizzle
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 02:56
Okayk thanks Ima try more with Blender, Ruccus I might try Wings 3D if it's hard I saw your awesome work with it!

~Petamizzle.
Flashing Blade
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Posted: 5th Mar 2008 14:29
Wings is amazing. I'm not an artist like Ruccus but I can easily make pretty much anything I need with wings. Also the speed at which you produce things is good because the interface is so simple. There's none of that 4 view coblers - if you want a view on the x-plane you press x - if you want that view to be ortho....(flat 2d) you press o.


The word "Gullible" cannot be found in any English Dictionary.
Pet A Mizzle
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Posted: 8th Mar 2008 05:01
Okay, but all this is great info THANKS!

BUt whould I have to make it a single Mesh or can it be seperable meshes, like one for the wall and one for the Castle?

Also... How can you add an underground to it? I'm trying to make a battlefeild.

~Petamizzle.
Flashing Blade
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Posted: 8th Mar 2008 13:14
A single mesh is best.

Whichever tool you decide to use, just get in there and start using it. Everything has a learning curve and nothing beats using something and making mistakes and starting again and making more mistakes and starting again....etc, to help you climb that learning curve.


The word "Gullible" cannot be found in any English Dictionary.
Pet A Mizzle
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Posted: 8th Mar 2008 14:48
Okay, why is it best?

And does anyone happen to know how you can add an Underground to it? Thanks!

~Petamizzle.
Venge
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Posted: 8th Mar 2008 15:15
A single mesh is best because it's easy to load and get everything in the right place without worrying where every individual object belongs.

An Underground? Like a basement? It's the same as adding a second floor, but go down instead of up.

Modelled and rendered in Blender. Free software ftw.
Pet A Mizzle
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Posted: 8th Mar 2008 15:42
But I amtrying to make an entire Battlefeild, should I make the Entire Terrain WITH the underground tunnels?
That seems like a lot of work Hehe!

But also if I make the entire Terrain would I include BOTH castles All of the underground tunnels and about a huge line crater you hide in, I think it's called a bunker? All in a single mesh? But wouldn't that be over 2-3K polies for good FPS?

~Petamizzle.
Opus
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Posted: 8th Mar 2008 22:47
You should probably use a single mesh for the terrain and then separate meshes for the structures. Just keep in mind that the more mesh objects you include the more debugging you might have to face when it comes to including them in your game engine.

One way to short-circuit that potential problem is to create a mesh object and immediately place a copy of it into your game engine environment just to see if it sits there like a good little wall or building or bunker STILL looking correct. THEN texture it in your application and then export that copy again and see if that step worked properly.

If you do this one major object at a time then you can build up a game set without feeling the need to rip your hair out by the roots in total frustration.

Eternal student in search of knowledge. But will settle for the occasional epiphany.
Pet A Mizzle
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Posted: 8th Mar 2008 22:58
I see....

But what if I want to test out my terrain into the game engine, would it be floating or would it take place of the current terrain? And should I make the Underground tunnels apart of the terrain, the castle [It connects both of them] or just leave them a single mesh of their own?

~Petamizzle.
Opus
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Posted: 8th Mar 2008 23:16
We seem to be having a failure to communicate here, and it is probably my fault. I'm envisioning ONE mesh period for your terrain. So use the one you already have and place your future objects [buildings and so forth] on it or under it, as the case may be.

If my vision of what you are trying to do conflicts with YOUR vision then go with your ideas; experiment a bit and see what does or does not work for you.

Eternal student in search of knowledge. But will settle for the occasional epiphany.
Pet A Mizzle
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Posted: 8th Mar 2008 23:18
Ohhhhh I think I know what your saying!

So Terrain is one mesh and everythign else is a different mesh? Castle = Mesh Underground = Another mesh.

then in the game engine you just place those onto the Loaded Terrain mesh as the default Terrain?

~Petamizzle.
Opus
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Posted: 8th Mar 2008 23:28
I THINK that's about right, but I DO have a weird mind that doesn't always grasp the simplest things about using DBPro, and I have been concentrating on getting good with Blender for the last month and a half since I've returned to a study of this stuff.

It's been a veeery long time since I've mucked around much with DBPro. I'm rusty like all get out!

I don't want to give you the wrong advice or information and so I'm going to bow out here with the suggestion that you take specific DBPro game engine questions over to the DBPro forums. Don't let me accidentally lead you astray here!

Eternal student in search of knowledge. But will settle for the occasional epiphany.
Pet A Mizzle
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Posted: 8th Mar 2008 23:31 Edited at: 8th Mar 2008 23:44
But I might use C++ so any help is AWESOME! I am probably going to use DBPRO for a simplistic layout for the game to see if it will work properly, so all your ideas have been VERY helpful to me!

I thank thee noble Opus.

~Petamizzle.
Opus
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Posted: 8th Mar 2008 23:37
You are very much welcome Pet A Mizzle. The only way any of us can learn this stuff is to ask questions and offer up and share answers! Best of good fortune to you.

Eternal student in search of knowledge. But will settle for the occasional epiphany.
Pet A Mizzle
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Posted: 8th Mar 2008 23:44
Bah! I just looked over my last post and the spelling is horrible! Dx I need to go edit it. xD

Anyways you were Tons of help!

NOw I just need to learn to model to create this.!

~Petamizzle.
RUCCUS
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Posted: 10th Mar 2008 16:40
A single mesh is only best if the mesh is small. If you're talking a world mesh, you dont want to have it all as one single mesh, as you will want to hide parts of the world as the user gets farther away from them. So basically;

Single meshes are good for:
- Organics (humans, vegetation)
- Individual entities (houses (only if the inside isnt modeled with a lot of detail), vehicles, weapons)

Not good for:
- Large complete worlds
- Robotic/Mechanic devices (things that need parts of their mesh to move individually)


However you're definitely going about this all the wrong way. Do you even have an engine working? You shouldn't be focusing on media AT ALL until you have a semi decent engine working for your game with all of the main game features that dont 100% require media, already complete. At that point, even if you dont know how to model, you may be ready to make a request for someone else to model for you.

Opus
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Posted: 10th Mar 2008 18:59
RUCCUS, thanks for the information and advice. I find it very useful!

Eternal student in search of knowledge. But will settle for the occasional epiphany.
Pet A Mizzle
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Posted: 11th Mar 2008 02:48
I thought I woul dprobably go around with the Torque engine untill I make my own.... Is that okay?

~Petamizzle.

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