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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Lemur confusion??

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game freak16
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2008 01:28
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I am not trying to be banned, I am just confused because I missed the whole Lemur thing because I have not been on the forums in days. Is Lemur permanantly canceled or are its features being incorporated in FPSC V2? I posted this just to clear up my confusion.

Even if it is not released, thank you URLForce for all that you contributed to this forum.

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Plystire
21
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2008 02:45
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To my understanding, Urlforce is trying to release what's currently been done on Lemur V2.

A lot of Lemur's features are on "standby" for the migration version (V2) as well.


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

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Keo C
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2008 04:35
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I feel sorry for Urlforce, you make a good mod (Lemur V1, get some good coders, Then code, then showcase a killer mod, but people still want more. If Lemur is released as it is, I would buy it. It seems some people don't know how hard it is to code such a large project like Lemur. Lemur Free did what URL wanted, made MP a lot better and more fun to work with. People are starting to take mod makers for grant it. People whined about FPSC before 1.08/1.09 and now there whining about mods that devs don't get payed for, and work their free time away for. Lots of developers have lives outside of FPSC and the term "slaving over a hot compiler" comes to mind. Beggers can't be choosers.

-KeoC


Image made by the overworked Biggadd.
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Slayer222
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2008 06:18
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Actually, they can. There's Airmod for 100% free and in my case bug free. Or there's EFX, totally free, but a sketchy license if you want to go commercial. There's also Ply's mod , which isn't free but still has a watermarked version for free. It's a fact of life that some people will take things for granted that others won't. I bet you take clean and easy to access water for granted. I certainly do.

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Plystire
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2008 06:21
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Yes, it's true that people whine about the way mods are going. We do spend our free time on these mods, but it's not because people are expecting things from us.

For me, personally, I make my mods not to use them, but to see them be used. When I see people use my work to it's potential and not complain about what ELSE it should have, that's when I get that warm fuzzy feeling inside, you know? Kinda like a coder's high, lol. To see people enjoying your work is one of the best things that I can think of.

Saying that kinda sounds like I'm talking about art, doesn't it?


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

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Flatlander
FPSC Tool Maker
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2008 07:48
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I agree with Keo C and I have to say Plystire, you have a great attitude. Maybe thats why we all like you so well. Never mind that we will forget you after the migration. I won't let you forget that one.
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xplosys
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Playing: FPSC Multiplayer Games
Posted: 22nd Apr 2008 17:50
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Quote: "When I see people use my work to it's potential and not complain about what ELSE it should have"


I'm sure that the fine coders at TGC feels the same way. If all of the modders had your attitude, we wouldn't see the TGC bashing or half of the complainers we see today.

Best.

fpsFREE.com - for FREE FPSC Content - Contact Me
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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2008 23:44
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I don't think anyones ungrateful or taking these mods for granted.

It would just be nice to see v2 get finished.

Lets take a moment to consider some of John Carmacks insight into game engine programming:

- Programming is really just the mundane aspect of expressing a solution to a problem. There are talents that are specifically related to actually coding, but the real issue is being able to grasp problems and devise solutions that are detailed enough to actually be coded.

- Being able to clearly keep a lot of aspects of a complex system visualized is valuable.

- Having a good feel for time and storage that is flexible enough to work over a range of ten orders of magnitude is valuable.

- Experience is valuable.

- Knowing the literature is valuable.

- Being able to integrate methods and knowledge from different fields is valuable.

- Being consistent is valuable.

- Being creative is valuable.

- Focus is extremely important. Being able to maintain focus for the length of a project gets harder and harder as schedules grow longer, but it is critical to doing great work. (Side note - every time "focus" is mentioned now, I think of Vernor Vinge's "A Deepness in the Sky", currently my favorite SF novel)

- Focused, hard work is the real key to success. Keep your eyes on the goal, and just keep taking the next step towards completing it. If you aren't sure which way to do something, do it both ways and see which works better.

- An interesting question: is it easier to motivate a learned individual that never does anything, or educate an ignorant individual that actually produces things?

- In the information age, the barriers [to entry into programming] just aren't there. The barriers are self imposed. If you want to set off and go develop some grand new thing, you don't need millions of dollars of capitalization. You need enough pizza and Diet Coke to stick in your refrigerator, a cheap PC to work on, and the dedication to go through with it. We slept on floors. We waded across rivers.

- The cost of adding a feature isn't just the time it takes to code it. The cost also includes the addition of an obstacle to future expansion. ... The trick is to pick the features that don't fight each other

- Because of the nature of Moore's law, anything that an extremely clever graphics programmer can do at one point can be replicated by a merely competent programmer some number of years later

- Programming is not a zero-sum game. Teaching something to a fellow programmer doesn't take it away from you. I'm happy to share what I can, because I'm in it for the love of programming.
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Plystire
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2008 00:20
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Quote: "- An interesting question: is it easier to motivate a learned individual that never does anything, or educate an ignorant individual that actually produces things?"


The second one... I know, because I'm the first.
I'm jobless and can never truely focus on anything that doesn't give me what I want: recognition. I hate working in an office, because when you finally finish something, no matter how big or small, or how important or unimportant, you don't get the same recognition as you do for doing something by yourself that everyone can use.


Side Note - At my last job, I programmed a large Dynamic Report Generator for the military that allowed them to generate any kind of report that they wanted, or even create a new one. It took less than 5 minutes to put out a complete and detailed report with all accurate information. A captain in the US Navy was bragging to my boss about the wonderful job that I was doing and how bright I was... that made me feel good inside, and gave me the recognition that I was looking for. Upon completing the task some months later, I was immediately fired on false charges (The same day as the task got completed). My name will never be in the credits of the software, but my code will still be there, no doubt. This is why I have never regained my attitude towards working for a living. I was let go in August of '06. I have not had a job since and do not intend to get one.


Why do I program? For the recognition that I get from everyone who uses my product.

Why do I become suddenly angry at times? Because some people who use my product are ingrates and almost immediately ask for more.


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

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Slayer222
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2008 00:33
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You know, doing something for recognition is nice, but it's not a very realistic ideal (no offense intended). You may get a thanks here and there, and in real life, money, but especially for an indie (even thats stretching it) game development engine, you can't expect much thanks, as there aren't that many users. Many people buy FPSC expecting to make Halo 4 (knock on wood it never happens) and even when someone makes a huge pack, many people ask is "is it free?" or "where's the DL?" or "can you add this?". Sure thats fine once and a while, but if it's all you get as responses, I can understand the frustration. However, you don't, no thread gets that. There's always a few people at least who say thanks, or give some good C&C or report a bug and (sometimes) give more details when asked. Some people say these forums are falling apart, but I don't think so. As for getting angry, I think we all lose our tempers sometime I think this forum has seen quite a bit of turbulence lately (not all my fault, which is rather amazing) but it'll always make it through, no matter what. Life's an elevator, it goes up and down
Slayer_2

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FredP
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2008 07:02
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Quote: "You know, doing something for recognition is nice, but it's not a very realistic ideal "



Tell that to the folks in Hollywood...

RIP Floating Skull unknown-2007 we will miss you in FPSC x10
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Slayer222
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2008 07:20
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The people in Hollywood aren't real silly

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Plystire
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2008 07:40
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Slayer, I don't know why you felt the need to go into that.

I never said that I don't get gratification from people who use my Mod. There are those who are grateful and say thanks. That's pretty much all it takes to make the whole thing worthwhile.

This isn't a job that's supposed to make me money, it's a hobby, so there's no way that it couldn't be a realistic ideal. I have fun making Mods, because I get to play with it before everyone else does and experience what it's able to do. And when I release it, I have even more fun hearing from people who got to play with it too!


The one and only,
~PlystirE~

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Slayer222
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2008 08:01
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Because I am an evil monster.

In that case, if I haven't said it, can't recall as I never really used your mod, it seemed to enjoy toying with my head a bit too much. But thanks anyhow. And the dual wielding was cool, albeit a bit lacking without the plrdrop command, which is hardly your fault.

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game freak16
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Posted: 24th Apr 2008 03:22
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Alright, everything makes sense now. Thanks Plystire.
@ Plystire
Wow I really have not been on in a while. I didn't know you made your own mod. I will check it out.

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