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3 Dimensional Chat / 3D Max, what am I doing wrong???

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Megaman X
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Posted: 28th Oct 2002 12:04
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I usually don't have problems with 3D Max 5.0, but this one made me be awake all night. I made a spaceship to a Star Fox like game that I decided to give a try. I used many extrudes and stuff like that. I grouped them in a single object and cast texture on it. In the viwport the texture is showed correctly. However, when I export it to 3DS, I cannot see any texures... I tried to open with 3D Exploration and it's not textured. runned with DarkBasic, and it's not textured. Even tried to texture "In" Dark Basic with Texture Object Command. No textures at all...

I then Installed again the old 3D Max R3 and I imported the spaceship, the same problem...

Do we have to group, attack or something like that? The weird is that the textures appears in the viewport and in the Max's rendering.

Indeed the textures are in the same folder when I load them in DB or with Exploration...

What am I doing wrong???

Thanks in advance
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
-Rogue
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 29th Oct 2002 00:21
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put your bmp/jpg texture within the same directory you wish to output the model ... open the material browser and select the texture in the export directory (making sure it uses 8.3 dos name format!)

then export 3DS with material options all checked, there you go your 3DS model is textured...
However i'd recommend direct export to X or MD3 as 3DS is really lousy bugged format!

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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Megaman X
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Posted: 29th Oct 2002 00:32
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Thanks Vegeta, for one second I thought I was alone here
I still could not get it to work. Some textures 128x128x16 sized in bmp format cannot be signed to my model... Do u know what it could be?
About the texture problem I will try what u said now
thanks a lot

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
-Rogue
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 29th Oct 2002 01:44
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not sure... i've found that Max does have a problem exporting textures with models (even version 5)

i mean some installations it'll work fine, others it'll just stop - no reason. i'll have a little play tonight and should be able to come up with a fool proof answer

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Megaman X
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Posted: 29th Oct 2002 02:11
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Great Vegeta...

I really think it's a bug with Max or a bug in my brain. If u like I can put my model somewhere on the net for u to take a look. I attacked, made it be only one model and nothing change...still not textured even when I open with 3D Exploration. The weird is that some models works fine, but not this space ship of mine I will upload the picture somewhere...hold

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
-Rogue
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Megaman X
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Posted: 29th Oct 2002 03:30
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Ok, here comes the stuff. The model is crap and I know it but will looks better when I have some textures on it, hopefully. It's for a game Star Fox like I'm doing:



This one does not have textures after I export it with Max, or even converte to .X model. It's a shot from Exploration:

http://www.geocities.com/roguegamedev/shot2.jpg

And a final one with a touch of Terragen...I'm also using Terragen to make the skybox in game



Very Weird, isn't it?

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
-Rogue
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Megaman X
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Posted: 29th Oct 2002 03:36
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Obviouly, I need help uploading the damn pics as well
Arghhhhhhhhhhh

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
-Rogue
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Megaman X
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Posted: 29th Oct 2002 03:40
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http://www.geocities.com/roguegamedev/shot1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/roguegamedev/shot2.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/roguegamedev/shot3.jpg

I just paste in my browser and it openned

thanks again

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
-Rogue
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Megaman X
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Posted: 29th Oct 2002 03:42
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sorry for the mess in this post...It's the first time I put images in this new forum...
Here is what happens when I export it.



Well, should I upload the 3ds as well?

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
-Rogue
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 29th Oct 2002 04:34
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well i've found this sofar... i can easily export the MD3 from Max however, when i try to use it in DBpro i get this error ->
dbpromd3objectdebug.dll - offset: 00001910

same from milkshape3d. quite baffling, and i'm using demo 1.02 oh well...
i'll install the DirectX Exporter and see if i can get that working

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 29th Oct 2002 04:41
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just tried DirectX export using 8.1 Exporter for Max4 (2000 Edition) - something really weird...
In Deep(Exploration the texture is there as material1, however it isn't show just as in DB :\
bloody baffleing... back to trying formats

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 29th Oct 2002 04:46
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just exported 3DS... works perfectly
export -> .3ds -> preserve Max texture coordinates (y)
loaded in DBpro fine

even without the texture being in the directory
gonna shove a simple animation on my 3ds now and see if it exports oki...

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Megaman X
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Posted: 29th Oct 2002 05:10
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Cool, I still have problems with the textures, more precisly with this crap model of mine
I've done a full chessboard for another game I am doing, and all sets are fine, but not the knight ( which also appers untextured ). I dunno what to do....or most probaly what to do

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 29th Oct 2002 05:43
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well if all else fails it still has the Uv data in tact
just use the texture object thing

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Megaman X
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Posted: 29th Oct 2002 07:33
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How can I export models with Max to md2 or md3? Is there a plugin for it???
The texture did not work yet... :: I'm reeinstaling my old friend Canvas......

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
-Rogue
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Megaman X
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Posted: 29th Oct 2002 13:14
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Max is really bad for game dev. Maybe it has a great inbuild render for animated stuff and so, but for games is buggy. I've just installed my 3D Canvas. I got it a long ago, the version 5.0 ( current is 5.7 ). And I imported the model I did with Max....first, the model was REALLY too big, even looking normal with Max. After resize and position it where I wanted, I re-textured my model with Canvas and, without need of any shit puglin, I exported to .X and voila. All textures appeared. The model need very few ajusts in the engine, instead of resize here and there and try to apply the textures manually.
I don't see many peoples using 3D Canvas here around, but believe me, it has great compatibily in comparation then with Max and it's price is CHEAP... Max manufatures are stealing with it's price...
There's some bugs indeed and sudden crashes... but even windows has it, so it's fine:
give a try:

[url]www.amabilis.com[/url]

Thanks a lot for help Vegeta... I will stick with Max for grounds ( it's good ) animations ( nice render ) and very few modeling. The rest will be Canvas in my game...

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
-Rogue
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 29th Oct 2002 20:36
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personally i hate max all around... i'll see if i can get someone here to make a quick directx.DLE for Max4
i'm sure its just microsofts useless exporter

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Megaman X
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Posted: 29th Oct 2002 22:28
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Now I start to understand why u hate Max

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
-Rogue
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ironhoof
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Posted: 30th Oct 2002 05:45
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Yea I dont like MAX either. I know people who will protest that it is just the cats pajama's and maya too for that matter, maya IS good. However MAX and MAYA are professional which means they are HYPERLY over priced! Im sorry no software is worth over 100$ IMHO. 3d canvas is ahlright, its a little slow because its programmed in visual basic "Not like you cant tell". However it dose a very decent job it makes animations and dosnt give me problems, however from what ive seen so far you cant upgrade without buying it over agian.

-----\
There was a man on the stairs that wasn't there.
He wasn't there agian today I think he's from the CIA.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 30th Oct 2002 06:42
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Canvas is really stupidly lay'd out...
there is a reason why Max/Maya/Lightwave/trueSpace are proffesional products, and its because even through thier faults they are still outstanding compared to anything on the market due to depth - and sensible layout.
personally i hate Max's setup as you have to do 20things for something that is a click away in Maya/trueSpace, but that aside it is still a powerful product - and if nothing else it does have more features than you can shake a stick at builtin

i think these products have been overhyped and overated - but then again to someone who can actually use them, several thousand is a small price to pay for hours of work chopped off

on that note though... Canvas is VB, however VB + Direct3D is actually quite fast - especially 6.0 sp5 with processor pack, but then again you need moderatly decent C++ knowlage to use it and might as well just use MFCs

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Megaman X
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Posted: 30th Oct 2002 17:44
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Yeah, Canvas has a strange layot, but u can get used with that. I was using the number 5.0, but I upgraded now for 5.7 and there're many funcions on it as Max using the right click, as extrude and few others, which were far well hidden in the older Canvas versions.

The thing is, most of us won't be able to design something really professional if u dont take a class or something. And Max ain't easy, and most of the users not really will use all the functions that comes with it. No matter what, we won't make a Bug's Life alone and without study Max in a class So I think cheaper softs ( as Canvas ) fits very well for hobbiest game dev as most of us here

About Visual Basic, I think Visual Basic is another GREAT language for hobbiest developers, it saves time, few coding ( unless u wanna make a database ) and professional Quality - Design. The Combo VB + DirectX ROCKS... I got really impressive fps with my Geforce4 and directX 8.1 running VB. Also, there're plenty of sites with great tuts about using VB and DirectX, though, u will still need to code collisions using Visual C++ pure ( Microsoft Fundantion Classes won't help anything for collisions ).

But I think it's a way to go. If you wanna be professional, take a 4 years class for programming and a great course for Max. U most may disagree, but it's the truth. If u are a guy, who takes a hobby ( cause to be a serious programmer u have to study. Even to get a job, u need to show up some papers bub, no matter if u fixed all Win95 bugs using ASM, or created a OS 200% Faster then Win and bugs free... wihtout papers is hard to get a job ).

So, for make games as a hobby, a Basic Language (VB, DB, DBpro and the other one I wont say or they delete my post, lol ) And a simple modeler, nice price as Canvas.

U wont' make anything worthy of money with Visual C++.NET and 3D Max 5.0 as a hobbiest, u need study for it U can be good, but the damn market ask for diplomas...

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
-Rogue
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 31st Oct 2002 00:23
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Classes won't teach you anything you can't simply learn from a manual!
To be honest it think its a shame that actual talented people are passed up for this stupid college grads who have a degree on howto create a polygon but are actually just in this for the money not the love of the work!
As an artist you can tell who is just out to make a quick buck and who is actually passionate about thier work.

I've said this before and will continue to say it, and artist is never a programmer and a programmer is never an artist, because to be good at either requires alot of dedication and love for the work you provide - class's can teach you how a tool works but not howto use it!

you dont' require diplomas in Computer Game Graphics or some other stupid ass course that any moron can pass...
for some reason it counts as industry experince to take them, but you gain no REAL work style experience - oftenly people end up being in WELL over thier heads because they're expected to work as if they've come from another development company right away. For someone 21-22 this is a major shock to the system and oftenly can't handle the pressure.

Please don't get on a course thinking it'll make you super fanstatic at something - don't get books thinkin that they can teach you everything you always wanted to know and understand, because you'll just end up regurjitating what they have and the whole point in being a programmer and an artist is to be CREATIVE - think about howto use tools and operators to achieve the goals you seek!

Time and time again i've noticed what kinda people who advance to actually do what they want and who don't... and its the people who enjoy what they're doing, enjoy working with several people closely and know that they're all there becuase each one has a unique talent - there is NO one man army to create a game like stories about the industry would have you believe ... oftenly you'll hear "oh Paul Steed is a fantastic modeller, his work for id was outstanding..." and yet through all this hype no one understands the guy can't pixel push to save his life!!
We all have talents, and you can't hope to achieve anything if you decide that you have to focus all of you talents on the WHOLE aspect of something. DirectX coders should have knowlage of databases, however they don't need to be the BEST at developing them as they'll never be asked to do it!

Focus on your strengths - practise your weaknesses everything else will fall into place.
And make sure you LOVE what you are doing, becuase over the years you'll have your work picked apart by critics, be asked to do things just out of your depth of knowlage by your team, and just get a repuation be being a copycat person who isn't able to innovate to achieve what they want.

and if you don't believe what i'm saying, all those big names you look upto in the industry - never took a class in thier life on howto do any of this!

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Megaman X
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Posted: 31st Oct 2002 01:23
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Hmmmmmm, I agree with almost everything u said. But there's nothing better then have a teacher who can help u out with ur doubts. Someone to make it clear for u. U did not start to talk or walk without ur mom showing u the way. After a while, them u could talk and walk by yourself. Indeed many thinks to do requires talent and pratice, but it's always easier to have someone helping u out, showing you the way.

Also, taking a class is a big chance to meet peoples who has the same entresting as u. Share knowledges is damn important. Like, no matter what, sooner or later u wont find answers in forums like this. U Vegeta, does, answer all post here and give great help to everyone.

Can someone learn without take a class? yes, indeed they can, they just have to wish to do so. Like setting up tasks and times to acomplish things, many peoples cannot "self organize", it's good to have someone like that.

I, for exemple, speak 6 languages and I never took a class to learn any of them. But none of those I speak are perfect ( look my english how bad it is ). If I have take a class, probaly I should know grammer much better.

I mean, talent is important, I agree with you, pratice as well, but a teacher always give a help Show u how to write in the right lines. Though, when I was studying in the University ( I am a jornalist, but I cannot find jobsmy area ) there were many peoples in there who were just studying to have something to do in their lives. But the market will kill them for sure when they go out to know the real world...
Well, making short, I agree with all u said, but I think that take a class is good. If it's not the best way, won't make any harm at all

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
-Rogue
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 31st Oct 2002 12:08
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lol well i'm not saying not to take classes
cause yeah they can help - however what i'm saying is that don't take the classes thinking that you'll suddenly become the next Bill Gates, because at the end of the day learning from someone you WILL gain thier bad habits and bad knowlage - learning on your own allows you to actually take in what you are doing and understand much more deeply and a txtbook explaination - especially from teachers who oftenly have never done such proffesionally!

I actually find it quite amusing that the 3D Games Artist Tutor had never been employed within a games development company - also on the opinion of myself and others from the area wouldn't have the talent to actually be even a considered for a jnr position
they can teach you fundimentals, they can't teach you how something works though ... especially as the point in someone who teaches is to empassion the student to WANT to learn, to want to strive to think about what they're doing and why - and those qualities arn't what are looked for in a teacher

If you ever have industry level teachers who have that ability to captivate you into something that you never knew you liked then tresure them as they're a very small breed - noticed time and time again that when students enjoy what they're doing and worry less about it they actually do outstanding work

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Wrabbit
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 14:53
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What everyone seem to be missing about what is wrong is the fact that this person has a WAREZ copy of 3D Max..
Unless your rich.
ie
$3500 us for max 5
thats why most of us have to use the free GMAX...

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Megaman X
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2002 21:34
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Wrabbit

Bwhahahahah, yeah, having a WAREZ copy will not texture an object. Besides, who said I don't have 3D Max legaly and it's none of ur businnes if it is or not. Go and tell ur mom u think a guy in DB forum has an illegal Max copy...

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
-- Rogue
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 20:56
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lol... gotta say its one thing to Berate someone who admits to it. Its another to actually accuse someone in that mannor.

it is very beside the point that illegal or not, his copy should still texture.
Personally I don't think Rouge has, but for my own reasons i'm not gonna say.

I can't remember if we solved your problem and i can't be bothered to read all of the crap we wrote - hehee

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Megaman X
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 21:26
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Don't worry Vegeta Thanks for the help anyway bub I will have to format my PC again Then I will see what happens Maybe the textures will suddenly work again U know, windows is full of surprises

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
-- Rogue
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Nov 2002 22:44
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hahaa yup (^_^)
if it happens again erm... whatever it was i'll try to keep on subject promise - but won't be easi

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