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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Is FPS worth it?

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flickenmaste
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Posted: 3rd May 2008 05:46
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I dont have vista so i cant get FPSCX10

so is normal FPS creator worth it for a first time game creator?

I noticed it doesnt have ragdoll, can fps creator ever have ragdoll??
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Slayer222
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Posted: 3rd May 2008 06:17
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Soon, it supposedly will. I HIGHLY recommend it. The first year it wowed me a lot. Now, not so much, but it's still great fun.

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darimc
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Posted: 3rd May 2008 06:26
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Put it this way, it is basically stealing at only $50. It's not a next gen engine that can recreate halo but you can make games for cheaper than you can buy one.



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lllstrikesmember 2
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Posted: 3rd May 2008 11:39
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yeah dude
U can make amazing games with this trust me!!!

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Aertic
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Posted: 3rd May 2008 14:23
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Not amazing, but par quality, X10 is the wow factor, but although FPSC is limited, the updates make it better, now we got the abbility to jump out of the map by one press of a single button and a single script, so yes, it is worth £50, although I payed £15 for mine(Play.com.)

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Pus In Boots
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Posted: 3rd May 2008 14:36
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It is completely worth the £30. Not only can you create some very imaginative games, there is a whole batch of updates and mods on the horizon, such as water, Team Deathmatch, dual wielding, vehicles, etc.

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Aertic
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Posted: 3rd May 2008 15:42
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Also there is the latest compos to get reputation of being good at games.
Also there is a batch of stuff that will Change you're live, right now im in several projects doing work, and these projects im in will boost my game developing skills, form textures to models.

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Zdrok
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Posted: 3rd May 2008 16:28
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Best $50 I've ever spent, I highly recommend this. on't listen to IGN, GameSpot, etc., because FPSC is hugely misunderstood. I bet when v2 arrives with ragdoll and all of the other bells and whistles, people will say v2 is not "horrid" like v1 is.

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Posted: 3rd May 2008 16:41
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Flickenmaste,

Look at FPSC as an entry level type of application. Do not purchase FPSC if you think you are going to make the next crsis/halo/CoD4 type of game. It's not going to happen. Sure they are working on V2 and I know a bunch of people are waiting for it to be released, I wouldn't hold my breath on functionality at all. If you are serious about game dev please do some homework and learn a programing language and stay away from the drag and drop apps like FPSC.


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Aertic
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Posted: 3rd May 2008 16:42
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Them are good words dave.

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Silvester
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Posted: 3rd May 2008 16:42
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Well, away from the crappy death sequence... its a pretty good engine. There is always room for improvement, but its still pretty awesome.

It's not the best thing I bought with my money,but it sure beats the crap out of some other engines.
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Indie PC Games
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Posted: 3rd May 2008 16:56
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I agree, money well spent with both engines!


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Chris Ganuza
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Posted: 3rd May 2008 17:20
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The x10 migration, which will be this summer is gonna add ragdoll

CG
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Aertic
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Posted: 3rd May 2008 18:26
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This summer... I doubt...

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flickenmaste
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Posted: 3rd May 2008 18:42
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ok thx u guys cause my birthday is in 15 days and i want this product...now im shure i really want this product!!

Thx u guys...if i make a game ill post it up!


-flickenmaste
http://instantaction.cominstantaction- the place to play 3-d games in your browser for free!
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flickenmaste
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Posted: 3rd May 2008 18:50
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Thx you guys...My b day is soon and i wanted this program causei want to make games!

thx for the input so now ill buy it!!
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Silvester
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Posted: 3rd May 2008 19:11
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More like next summer... Seeing how "fast" X10 came on the market...
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flickenmaste
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Posted: 3rd May 2008 19:20
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well i hope to see yuor guys games!
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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 3rd May 2008 20:37
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Congratulations

The important thing to remember is nobody will ever produce a commercial game with other, arguably better featured engines because they require a good knowledge of C++ and other languages like HLSL to produce anything.

This is why only indie companies use them because they have a team of coders to do what you and I can I do with FPSC in a fraction of the time. That just makes good sense and I'd rather be making good first person shooters than telling the world I'm using Unreal Engine 3 and not actually be able to do anything with it.

I tried using the A5 engine for a while and it had a bunch of tools for creating entities and such but nothing feels as well integrated as FPSC does. The way you can import game media with such ease and make completely unique looking and custom games really is quite amazing.

When your having to read manual documentation and write code just to import a custom model into your environment that kind of takes away from the enjoyment of actually making the game (for me anyway) which is already a time consuming task.

I didn't mind writing a ton of code back when making games for things like the BBC Micro and Spectrum but in this day and age its nice there is a tool like FPSC that streamlines the process.

Anyone with a real passion for playing and hopefully making a good game should support FPSC as its already a very good engine, especially with FPSC X10 out there and it's receiving a wealth of updates to improve it all the time.

FPSC X9 and X10 are those kinds of software that give you a reason to have a PC and spend an unhealthy amount of time using it. It's criminally cheap for the amount of use you will get from it. Once you've used it you'll be blown away with the possibilities.
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Posted: 4th May 2008 00:58
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Quote: "Once you've used it you'll be blown away with the possibilities."


A bit stiff I think, maybe awe struck at first but nothing to lasting.
I think the most important thing people need to remember is that this engine (FPSC) is not a bad entry level Game development tool; if you are truly serious about game development you will not limit yourself by using this engine as a main tool in your efforts to create a quality game.

The good news and the bad news...

While FPSC x10 was hyped up I don't believe that it has done much more than add a coat of polish to the already troublesome software that spawned it. It may be a tad bit better than the Dx9 version but it is still the same software.

Now that directx 9 is being drowned by its older brother directx10 and with Microsoft ending all WindowsXP (including directx9) support by fall '09 you have to ask yourself "Is it worth creating a game with the x9 version?" well the answer is a "yes" and "no" depending on your wants.

situation A: If you are making games for you and your friends then yeah this is a great piece of software regardless of the support and updates that you will eventually need. If this is just something to stop you from chewing on your own ear while licking windows than this software is awesome.

Situation B: If you are serious about game development at a professional level then this software will only hold you back in terms of what is considered commercial and what is not. If you are interested in going Pro then I suggest you stop looking at this forum for a minute and open Google. Once you get it open look for Digital arts and animation based schools next buy and read as much literature as you can.

Cheers,
Dave


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lllstrikesmember 2
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Posted: 4th May 2008 01:46
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amen nomad!!!!!!
and dont lisgn to LT u can make amazing games
u just have to be CREATIVE!

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flickenmaste
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Posted: 4th May 2008 02:17
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reality forgotten

i want to make a game just to make em so people can play then...its not like im going to be selling the games for money

I just wanna make online game people would wanna play!
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Leander
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Posted: 4th May 2008 04:45 Edited at: 4th May 2008 05:02
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Flickenmaste To answer your question I have to say that it really depends on what you expect.

If you love shooters and want to create games regardless of the lack of visual perfection you will have fun with FPSC.
It is also a matter of age I think. Fifteen-year-old teenagers will definitely find FPSC totally cool and awsome..."wow, let´s make our own shooter, wow, that gun is sooo cool".
But if you are older, "cool games" are not that important any more and you want to create serious games that surpass the "it is totally cool to shoot some monsters" feeling you might not be content with FPSC.

Personally, I am disappointed with the software. I prefer another program that cannot handle 3D but is stable, almost bugless and has endless possibilities.

My salespoints for FPSC are:

+ nice physics
+ 3D world
+ it is fun to run through a self-created 3D world
+ many model packs
+ tons of user-created entities, segments

I compare FPSC to bricks. It gives you loads of different bricks in all colors and sizes...just use your imagination. You can buy model packs, you can download community-created stuff for free and get a whole universe of "bricks".
The problem is that those bricks are many, cool, beautiful, stunning, exciting...but once built your world of bricks is disappointing.
Let me compare FPSC to a car. There are hundreds of parts and colors you can build your car with but the car will only run at half-speed because its engine is old and has many flaws.

What I dislike:

- horrible loading times: some levels take e.g. seven minutes to load, just for some rooms, objects and lights.
- forget multiplayer mode...too many bugs, almost unplayable, not enjoyable
- lack of visual perfection, lack of a good collision detection...
enemies do not run but ice-skate on the floor without moving their feet...textures flicker, have z-clashing, lots of graphical flaws...
- Running around in your created world is fun but when it comes to fighting all fun is gone. Enemy hit -> blood is visible -> enemy behaves like nothing happened...keeps running, shooting...falls to the ground, stands up again...those animations are so far from being realistic. Enemy behind closed doors => you already see parts of the body shine through...parts of the body move from objects and walls etc.
The collision detection is really bad.

To sum up it depends what you expect. What you want to create and how important visual perfection is to you. Personally, I like the huuuuge amount of objects but all I can create with them is a - sorry - crappy game that takes many, many minutes to load and is just annoying when it comes to fighting... Bad AI, bad collision detection, bad behaviour and bad animations spoil my fun, sorry.

The screenshots are really beautiful and it is fun to run through the 3D world. It would be great if you could create adventure games like Myst or Gabriel Knight...then the horrible fighting flaws would not be important any more.

I hope that those flaws will be addressed in an update some time.

EDIT I forgot that FPSC lacks shooting strategy. Taking cover behind objects, crouching etc. does not work well. Hiding behind a wall, stepping out, aim, shoot, hide again etc. is not really possible. Enemies either stand around or run after you.
Sometimes an enemy stands guard behind a wall...you see nothing but his left leg...and can shoot and kill the enemy by shooting at this leg. He will not see you nor attack you. It does not matter if you shoot his leg or chest.
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Paul112
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Posted: 4th May 2008 10:57 Edited at: 4th May 2008 10:58
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Quote: "horrible loading times: some levels take e.g. seven minutes to load, just for some rooms, objects and lights."

For a start, that's a load of crap. If your light mapping quality is set tremendously high, yes sure, in test mode. I have a map that takes up at least a quarter of the grid with nearly 1000 lights, and it takes about 5 minutes to load the test game, and next to 20 seconds in the final build. Once built, your game no longer renders the lights, they were generated as lightmap files when you built the game. Lightmapping is a pretty draining process, I don't think many editors will be able to render lights quickly.

TO THE POSTER:
Yes, FPSC is worth every penny/cent. If you venture into the DBPRO showcase, a lot of the level design is pretty poor (sorry to say it) because they have to spend so long trying to make their engine work as they want it. FPSC gives you the chance to skip that and learn the basics of game design straight away.

I am in my third year of using FPSC, and I'm still not bored. I've learnt lots about level design, modeling, texturing, lighting, and now animating, which I simply wouldn't of tried had I jumped to DB or DBPro to make a game.

Get it and have some fun,
Paul
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Leander
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Posted: 4th May 2008 14:42
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Paul I don't have the fastest computer. I bought mine in 2004: PIV, 3.2ghz, 1 GB ram, ATI Radeon 9600 128 MB. Still the loading times in BUILT games (e.g. the Hunt for evil-demo) without dynamic lighting and with medium textures are minutes.

I think this has to be improved. Other shooters (e.g. the old Medal of Honor - Allied Assault), F.E.A.R. multiplayer, Overlord, Morrowind - Elder scrolls etc. have far more complex and larger levels, yet they load within one tenth of FPSC games' loading times.
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Plystire
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Posted: 4th May 2008 15:15
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Quote: "Other shooters (e.g. the old Medal of Honor - Allied Assault), F.E.A.R. multiplayer, Overlord, Morrowind - Elder scrolls etc. have far more complex and larger levels, yet they load within one tenth of FPSC games' loading times."


However, they were not created with an engine as dynamic as FPSC. They were all created with level editors SPECIFICALLY designed to create those games. No having to script the special stuff like we do.

FPSC was designed to be very flexible in what it can do. When you make a "Game Maker", you need to take in SO MANY different possibilities for what it can output. The Editors for the games you've listed had an Editor (IF they had one at all) that was only capable of building levels for those particular games. This is why they load faster. They pre-restricted themselves to what they wanted in the game, because before they even made the Editor, they already knew what they wanted and so didn't have to put in a lot of extra un-needed stuff.

It's completely unreasonable to ask that a drag-and-drop editor be made to create games that would be up at the same level as those games. If you want to make a game like that, then find a better engine, and good luck finding a nice, easy-to-use Editor to go with it.


The one and only,


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Mr Makealotofsmoke
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Posted: 4th May 2008 15:43 Edited at: 4th May 2008 15:44
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i would say FPSC is on the indie scale, par. Its easy to use, but its not the best. You could make a few dollars from it, but mostly if u make addons for it

and IMO, how many ppl have DX10 anyways? You could make a game, but give it to whom?


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Paul112
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Posted: 4th May 2008 17:27
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Quote: "Paul I don't have the fastest computer. I bought mine in 2004: PIV, 3.2ghz, 1 GB ram, ATI Radeon 9600 128 MB. Still the loading times in BUILT games (e.g. the Hunt for evil-demo) without dynamic lighting and with medium textures are minutes."


I bought mine in 2004 too, Pentium 4, 3.2GHz, 512MB RAM and an ATI Radeon X300 128MB graphics card, so I still stand by my point. What cursed version of FPSC are you running?

Paul
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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 4th May 2008 18:57
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Quote: "Personally, I like the huuuuge amount of objects but all I can create with them is a - sorry - crappy game that takes many, many minutes to load and is just annoying when it comes to fighting... Bad AI, bad collision detection, bad behaviour and bad animations spoil my fun, sorry."


You should be sorry. Don't blame the FPSC engine for you not having produced a quality game demo yet.

Try creating your own models, characters, animations and AI scripts then maybe you'll be able to produce something a bit better. Install the latest v1.09 beta7 which allows head shots for improved collision options and improved level loading times or get FPSC X10 and benefit from Dark AI.

Quote: "I am in my third year of using FPSC, and I'm still not bored. I've learnt lots about level design, modeling, texturing, lighting, and now animating, which I simply wouldn't of tried had I jumped to DB or DBPro to make a game."


Very good point. FPSC naturally encourages explorationin into modelling, texturing, lighting, character / weapon development and level design. It allows you to implement as little or as much custom content as you want and at the pace you want to do it.

Quote: "i would say FPSC is on the indie scale, par. Its easy to use, but its not the best."


Define best? I've used a bunch of either engines on the 'indie' scale and I haven't found a better one.

Quote: "and IMO, how many ppl have DX10 anyways? You could make a game, but give it to whom?"


Erm, most people that care about playing first person shooters I suppose. Cost is the only reason a gamer wouldn't have a directx10 ready system. You can develop and play FPSC X9 games using Vista and a directx 10 graphics card. There's nothing to lose by upgrading.

You know everyone seems to have an opinion about FPSC versus other game engines. Unfortunately there is never any evidence of individuals having produced game demos of the quality those engines features suggest.

Everyone used to talk about how there were hardly any complete FPSC games and even less going on sale. Well if you cant achieve that with FPSC your going to be 'thinking' about making a good game with another engine for a very long time.
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flickenmaste
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Posted: 4th May 2008 19:54
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ok well im an indie game makes, and im in high school so this does look cool to me. Over summer ill be taking a class to be able to use UNREAL ENGINE. So fps creator will just be my little tool to kinda be better actuanited with making games. they its not like im goinging to be selling my game i make...maybe just make then free for people to download and play!
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Posted: 4th May 2008 20:12
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Nomad- you make some valid points; does that mean that someone should not even bother to learn a programming language and just give up and settle for FPS style game making to save you the hassle of learning the skills that will increase your chances in the professional market?


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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 4th May 2008 23:55
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Reality - Ok thats a fair point.

I think people should just be aware if they want to use one of those really high end engines, their not going to be making an entire game of their own creation which is possible with FPSC.

If someone is purely interested in becoming a professional games developer and looking to learn a couple of skills well enough to get paid, FPSC would still be an ideal starting point to showcase your work quickly.

I think flickenmaste has made a good decision in taking a course which will teach him the unreal engine and its great you can get a university degree in game development now. However to be fair you can make a game thats at least on a par with unreal now using FPSC which you don't need to go on a course for.

I've learned several programming languages from basic to java and more recently actionscript for flash and its a very rewarding thing to do but you need to look at what your getting out of that investment of time. Its easily justifiable to learn a programming language that enables you to make stand alone, web based and mobile applications and games for your time but engine programming is a lot more specialised.

It's been said by the likes of John Carmack that to get into the games industry your better of using an existing engine to showcase something cool than trying to develop something completely from scratch.

If you don't have the time or finances to go on a course your best chance of getting anywhere is FPSC. If your in the same position as flickenmaste its still the best place to start. Nobody can be expected to download the development tools made by a company who's employees had years of getting to know them for making 1 or 2 specific games and have any chance of having fun with them anytime soon.
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flickenmaste
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Posted: 5th May 2008 02:44
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Well im taking the class for unreal engine at a college, and Im learning actionscript for flash right now, I want FPSC just as a starting point to learn more and get the feel with making games!
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flickenmaste
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Posted: 5th May 2008 07:10
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Ive already got an idea for a game!
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flickenmaste
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Posted: 6th May 2008 04:20
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and i just bought FPSC!!
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Punk13
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Posted: 6th May 2008 05:34
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Stupid question do we have to pay for v2?
ThankX
Punk13

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Posted: 7th May 2008 07:15
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flickenmaste- calm down sparkplug. You will be demoralized soon enough. What collage are you attending?


Punk13- you're right it was a stupid question that was asked in the wrong thread.


Cheers,
Dave


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Slayer222
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Posted: 7th May 2008 07:50
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Quote: "I bought mine in 2004 too, Pentium 4, 3.2GHz, 512MB RAM and an ATI Radeon X300 128MB graphics card, so I still stand by my point. What cursed version of FPSC are you running?"
Well, mine lags up at around the 10 enemy 20 lights point. Running V1.09 Beta 7. 2GB of RAM, 2.4Ghz AMD 64 processor, nVidia 7800GT 256MB. 168GB of free room on my hard-drive. I'd say decent, no? FPSC is useful, to an extent. I learned tons from it. Heck for the learning alone, it's a steal. Making a game is another thing, but if it's a free game, who cares? Even if you screw up horribly, it doesn't matter Get FPSC, and have some fun. When I first bought FPSC, I was totally amazed for a year or so. Now It's just frustration to me, but thats ok, it's like any other game to me. Fun to play around with, but not so much if you're serious.
Slayer_2

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5867Dude
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Posted: 7th May 2008 23:00
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Quote: "Stupid question do we have to pay for v2?"

No
Lees Kind


Was cool kid
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flickenmaste
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Posted: 7th May 2008 23:26
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Quote: "flickenmaste- calm down sparkplug. You will be demoralized soon enough. What collage are you attending?"


highschool baby lol!
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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 8th May 2008 00:19
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Quote: "and i just bought FPSC!!"


I'm really excited for you. Your head will spin as your knowledge of FPSC grows and you achieve bigger and better things.

The engine will pleasantly surprise you as it brings to life that killer first person shooter which has only existed in your imagination until now.

Quote: "When I first bought FPSC, I was totally amazed for a year or so. Now It's just frustration to me"


There are only moments of frustration which you will overcome with time and skill. It always continues to amaze especially when Lee is knocking out updates like he is at the moment.

The potential for FPSC is greater than any other game engine out there. Have fun with your unreal course though.
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flickenmaste
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Posted: 8th May 2008 02:12
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ok...does the engine auto update or do u have to dl the updates your self?

what updates should i get to make FPSC better?
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Posted: 8th May 2008 06:38
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Quote: "The potential for FPSC is greater than any other game engine out there. "


Nomad please stop referring to this engine as a next gen gold mine, this is far from it.

Quote: "Have fun with your unreal course though"


I seriously doubt he is taking any course related to the unreal engine while he is in high school.


Cheers,
Dave


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flickenmaste
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Posted: 8th May 2008 06:54
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Quote: "I seriously doubt he is taking any course related to the unreal engine while he is in high school. "


yeah i am...$1000 just for the class
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Airslide
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Joined: 18th Oct 2004
Location: California
Posted: 8th May 2008 06:58
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I'm not going to go through all this but I'm going to state something alot of people seem to overlook.

A lot of people complain about lack of features, loading times, etc. Yet do they not realize that the FPSC source is available? I mean, look at what Plystire, Urlforce, Nighthawk and I have done. We've added some considerable new content to the engine itself, and furthermore, it's been genearalized content designed to work in various senarios.

Take this into mind - FPSC is a great base engine. It handles media management, menus, entities, physics, weapons, everything you need to make an FPS. Then you can take the engine and go to the next level. Plystire was talking about how companies have editors that restrict them to what their goal is, rather than FPSC which must allow for all kinds of possibilities. Well, you can't edit the editor, but you can edit the engine. You could take out what you don't need, add what you do, modify how loading is done (you could move some entities to a load-as-needed basis with some work I'm sure) etc.

Although I've always wanted to program my own FPS in DBP from scratch, when really looking at what's available, I think it would be ideal for me to take the latest FPSC source code, stick with that version (unless there is something really, really major added in a new one ) and build my own DBP game from it. The FPSC editor serves as a level designer and with significant enough changes to the FPSC engine I could create a unique game that you might not even reconginze as an FPSC game.

Sorry, I'm ranting, and I'm not even sure who I'm ranting to


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flickenmaste
16
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Joined: 2nd May 2008
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Posted: 8th May 2008 07:25
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no thats good, i agreed with you this looks like a great program!
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Mr Makealotofsmoke
17
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Joined: 10th Dec 2006
Location: BillTown (Well Aust)
Posted: 8th May 2008 10:42 Edited at: 8th May 2008 10:43
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Quote: "Erm, most people that care about playing first person shooters I suppose. Cost is the only reason a gamer wouldn't have a directx10 ready system. You can develop and play FPSC X9 games using Vista and a directx 10 graphics card. There's nothing to lose by upgrading."


i have DX9. I got vista ultimate in a box and a 8800, but i dont like vista and i dont want to re-install everything. All i play is FPS games.


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