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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Any serious developers here? I have some presale questions

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3DGIRLX
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Posted: 6th May 2008 13:48
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Hello guys

I am looking to develop a low cost shooter
I read many of the threads here and gathered some info (saw pictures and downloaded demos)

1 can I make a commercial game with DX9? I am not going for DX10 since commercially it will be a mistake

2 I played with some of the demos and I saw that the games are slow are any of you getting better results?

3What about ragdoll and AI? Will hiring programmers with DB knowledge can help me to accomplish my mission?

Thank you
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Dude232
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Posted: 6th May 2008 15:12
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well fpsc requires no coding only for the ai scripts. Yes, you can make games commercialy and sell them. If you downloaded version 1.08 then look in the folder "people" in the script bank. Well the slow down is caused by too many dynamic entities and larg areas... Once you figure out when to change entities static in your games you will be fine.

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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 6th May 2008 15:25 Edited at: 6th May 2008 16:02
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Quote: "Will hiring programmers with DB knowledge can help me to accomplish my mission?"

Yes, that would enable you to do great things with the engine should they modify the source code for v1.
With all of the new features added to v109 though, commercial games are possible without modding the engine.
All you really need are good FPI scripters and the artists for making your custom models. (some people here can script anything that is possible in FPSC, but there is a $1000 commercial license for X10)
However if you have the cash to get things done, then...

Recommendations for scripters...
Plystire
Conjured Entertainment

Recommendations for hiring someone to Modify your engine...
Plystire
Airslide

Recommendations for custom character, and weapons creation...
Bond1
Jon Fletcher

Recommendations for general static object creation...
There are too many to list, so head over to the models and media forum and pick your favorites after viewing their work.

Some of these people may already be to busy to help you, but there are many others who can probably help.
Oh, and don't forget the new TGC store that will be incorporated right in to the editor.
In a couple of weeks there will be hundreds (700+ now & growing) models to choose from that you can buy at a very low cost.
There has never been a better time to develop a commercial game with FPSC than right now.

Quote: "I am looking to develop a low cost shooter"

FPSC is the best solution out there for making low cost FPS games.
Yes there are cheaper ones, but they are harder to use.
Yes there are more powerful ones, but they are harder to use.
The ease of use will save you countless man hours in development and get your products out quicker.
Also, don't forget the license for FPSC, which is far better than any of the competitors. (no license or royalty fees for FPSC, but there is a $1000 commercial license fee for x10)

FPSC is the most user friendly FPS solution out there, and the features are getting better by leaps and bounds.
I plan on pushing FPSC to the limit on my next release, now that we have those scripting variables in v109.
I should have a trailer for my new game up within 2 weeks of the release of the stable v109, then you'll FPSC's new features at work.
I'm working on all of my custom scripts now using the beta version of v109 to get a grasp on these added FPI conditions/actions while we wait.

Team requests are not allowed here in the forums, but if you are serious about making a commercial release with FPSC (only a few of us here are/most do it as a hobby), then I am sure there are a few people here that would be interested in joining forces in that endeavor.

Don't forget to visit Conjured Entertainment

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3DGIRLX
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Posted: 6th May 2008 15:41
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Conjured Entertainment,Dude232 Thank you!

what about ragdoll?
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Cyborg ART
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Posted: 6th May 2008 19:56
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Ragdoll will be in V2, wich should be out really soon (at least I hope so )

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Avid
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Posted: 6th May 2008 20:37
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You're best waiting for them to port the X10 version to DX9. It'll have most of the new features, especially water, improved ai/lighting and improved scripts. Just a more detailed explanation of what I think BVG is referring to.
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Aertic
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Posted: 6th May 2008 20:45
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Quote: "Ragdoll will be in V2, wich should be out really soon "


Real soon? there on v1.09 not for another year, it took us two years to get to v1.09 it may take 1 more until were onto v2.
Unless v1.10-v1.19 will be skipped and just jump the gun onto v2.

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3DGIRLX
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Posted: 6th May 2008 21:01
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Quote: "Real soon? there on v1.09 not for another year, it took us two years to get to v1.09 it may take 1 more until were onto v2.
Unless v1.10-v1.19 will be skipped and just jump the gun onto v2."


are you serious?
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Cyborg ART
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Posted: 6th May 2008 21:42
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I dont think V2 actually will be a update, more like a remade version of FPSC wich will be realesed for free for those who allready owns FPSC.
Thats what I have heard.

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shadow651
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Posted: 6th May 2008 21:49
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isn't that the same as a major update


[url] Operationblackmesa.vossey.net [/url]
Forums [url] http://operationblackmesa.vossey.net/forums [/url] OPBM Developer
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3DGIRLX
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Posted: 6th May 2008 21:53
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so should i buy FPSC with some of the packs now?
how latest updates effect your levels?
is it easy to backup them?
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Aertic
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Posted: 6th May 2008 22:20
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the latest upadte(v1.09) which is still in beta is okay some problems here and there but there being fixed, but I would buy this tool(and I have.) but probaly the best update I have witnessed( note: I skipped v1.06-v1.07) Is v1.04, its the lighting effects I got with v1.04.

But buy this if you're a casual develpoer, not serious, if you're serious then use Dark Basic pro instead, but that needs code, it aint drag and drop.
But I would and do use fpsc as a beginners tool.

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jeffhuys
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Posted: 6th May 2008 22:34
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FPS Creator has changed many lives, just like mine.
You'll learn how to make levels, how to make the lighting look good, how to model, animate and much much more!
I would buy it, you can learn from it!
And with EfxMod, well then you can even make it look pretty darn good!!

Jeff



You're the 'th to view this signature!
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Aertic
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Posted: 6th May 2008 22:41
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*COUGH!!!* lighting good!!! !!! !!! I doubt.

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Scurvy Lobster
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Posted: 6th May 2008 22:53 Edited at: 7th May 2008 15:31
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Be aware that FPSC games have had a very hard time making any money. The primary problem to this is that the games feels 'generic'. They have the core elements of any FPS game but no unique selling points and features that stand out.

In my view FPSC is the best toy ever (or at least second best compared to LEGOs ) but as a professional tool it is really best for prototyping some level design and the structure of your story etc.

FPSC X10 is the most advanced at the moment but very few people have the computers to play the games you make with it. I have FPSC X10 on a brand new pc but I use the classic FPSC almost exclusively because of the lower demands on the end users compared to FPSC X10 games.
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Black Terror
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Posted: 7th May 2008 01:41 Edited at: 7th May 2008 01:47
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Hey man I am going to be really honest (and i hope the mods dont have a problem with this). If you really want to make a commercial game, I doubt FPSC X9 (or X10) will cut it.

For commercial models, you will want to contact John Fletcher or Bond1. They both have great talents but I don't know how much they will cost. Also check turbosquid.com. They have fantastic 3D models. Characters in FPSC should have 3000-5000 polys, guns should have 3000-5000, and the entire screen should have no more than 40,000 polys drawn at one time.

For level developing, you will either need hundreds of new segments (different shapes/sizes) or you will need to buy a program like 3D World Studio (see thegamecreators.com). This will save polys, increase performance, and make your level look better assuming you decide to use FPSC. If you want, I also make levels, I've been using 3DWS for a while and I can make some good items in it.

The reason FPSC doesn't make a great commercial quality game, is because it fails to have many features. Multilayer does not support dedicated servers, and is bugged. The default settings look extremely bad on a widescreen monitor or a monitor with a larger resolution.

For publishing and advertising, I would either hire a professional (including myself) to make graphics logos for your game. Unless you think you can do it by yourself. It can sometimes be overwehlming to make an entire game, get it published, make a logo, website, and promotional stuff.

My suggestion:
View Leadwerks, and take a look at that. Their new Version 2 is coming out in a few weeks. It supports .5 million polys rather than 40k and has some different qualities that FPSC lacks. Please justs take this as constructive feedback, I am not trying to put down FPSC but I personally do not think it is capable of making a commercial quality game. I still suggest using John or Bond1 for models, characters, and weapons.

- Black Terror

BTW: Expect to spend anywhere from $1000-$3000 dollars for any commercial game that doesn't use stock media. Here is a link to a game that was made in FPSC and actually could of successfully published for thousands of dollars in my opinion. The game was made by a studio and they made some big modifications to the actually game coding. They featured a cartoon-like environment, 100% custom media, and animated HUD's. I cannot believe they backed down on a project like this.
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=111090&b=25

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Cheese Cake
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Posted: 7th May 2008 09:34 Edited at: 7th May 2008 09:35
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I agree with most of the stuff you posted Black Terror.
But i think it is possible to make commercial games with FPS.

It would be a bit harder since you would have to delete some stuff since it goes wrong with the FPS or maybe that it doesnt imported that well...
Or maybe some other bugs...but eventually you could make some great levels out of it.
And if you have a good story than you could make a great game out of it.

Bond1 and Jon Fletcher are probably the best modelers over here.
And if you hire them...than no doubt that your game would look so much more unique and better.
Of course it would cost a bit more since you are getting commercial quality media.
If you want something cheaper you also have:

Strelok, (dont know if he quited FPSC since i didnt see him for a while now).

Disturbing13,(he moved over to another site).

Rolfy, (also a very good modeler).

And i also make models, maybe not as good as the ones i typed.
But for an idea you can look at some of my threads (the best one is Cheese Cake's media).

Again it is possible to make commercial games with FPSC, but it would be hard and you would have to take your time and put it in a good use to reach that goal.

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3DGIRLX
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Posted: 7th May 2008 11:17 Edited at: 7th May 2008 11:28
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Black Terror

Thank you for your detailed and long post I really appreciate it. I don’t see any reason for the mods to delete your post.
My budget is set around 6000$ and I really had high hopes for the DX10 version but here is my 2 cent
Vista and DX10 is a big disappointment for gamers. I believe that DX10 will be the reason for many gamers to try consoles.
Microsoft pushed really hard Crysis as a DX10 game but bad programming made this game run slow even on new graphic cards.
If you want to see a good example of programming play COD4 on weak computers with old DX9 cards.
The problem is that I am not much of a programmer although I got the knowledge I am more an artistic person.
I have 2 projects, one is more artistic and the other one is a shooter that will take place in my country.

Multiplayer
got no interest in that

E.L.E
looks great saw it in the past i guess they went for another engine

Cheese Cake
Thanks for your detailed and long post I really appreciate it too
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Flatlander
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Posted: 7th May 2008 16:46 Edited at: 7th May 2008 16:50
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If you are going to get a DB programmer you might as well use DBPro for developing a commercial game. As someone else had said you can use FPSC for a quick proto-typing. Someone else also said that you can modify the v1.x game engine using DBPro. Source code for v1.07 has already been released.

V2 which is also called the "migration" version will simply merge certain code from X10 into the X9 or the v1.x code. I would expect this to be finished sometime by the end of the year.

Go here to learn more about FPSC and beyond.

However, I agree with CE that one could create a commercial game with FPSC. You also might want to check out some of the modifications that are available and soon to be available.

Ply's Mod v1.07

Ply's Mod Version 1.06 started out with an extensive variable system. However, he will not be officially releasing a version until 1.07 I believe.
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KeithC
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Posted: 7th May 2008 17:44 Edited at: 7th May 2008 17:47
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Quote: "E.L.E
looks great saw it in the past i guess they went for another engine"

Nope; they used a heavily modified version of FPSC, but it was still FPSC at it's base.

For the $6,000 you may be spending; you can get quite a few things to help with your development. You don't have to own 3DS Max and Photoshop to make unique graphics; you just have to develop your skill set, or hire someone who can create your vision at a cost that you can live with. Just plan it all out on paper first, then try to put a price tag on everything. That will give you a more realistic view of what lies ahead.

If you plan on doing your own graphics, I've compiled a small list of applications over a period of time:

3D Applications

2D Applications

There are also other lists around the forum here. Also check out the many different engine Mods that are around; they may help cut down on development time for you. Good luck with what you want to accomplish; if you have any questions, there are plenty of people here to help you out.

-Keith

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3DGIRLX
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Posted: 7th May 2008 18:13
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3. Improved AI, Allies, enemies that are smart. Dark AI would be great.
LEE : To keep FPSC V1 game engine open source, DarkAI will not be added - see X10 migration below

4. Better physics, ragdoll and such. Dark Physics would rock! Water would be nice as well.
LEE : To keep FPSC V1 game engine open source, DarkPhysics will not be added - see X10 migration below

this is a real drawback for me since i am not going to buy the DX10 version, how much it will cost me to get this things?
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Flatlander
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Posted: 7th May 2008 18:44
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3DGIRLX, I think you might have misunderstood. The X10 migration is for merging some of the X10 features with X9. That means the migration or V2 will work only with DX9 not DX10. This is what we are all waiting for. If you purchase FPSC X9 v1.x now you will be able to upgrade to v2 (the migration version) for free. I know this is a little confusing.
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Cyborg ART
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Posted: 7th May 2008 21:07 Edited at: 7th May 2008 21:07
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If you are looking for a team I am able to join as 3d scenerymodeling and as leveldesigner.
I could even make it for free, I just want to work on a serious project.
You could contact me at my email found below.

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Plystire
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Posted: 8th May 2008 01:22
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If you're looking to get DarkAI and DarkPhysics into FPSC, you're going to want to find a DBP programmer who has had much experience with coding them. They are usually found in the DBP board.

Although I know almost every square character of the FPSC source, I have never coded with DarkAI or DarkPhysics.


You seem to have a rather large budget, I'm more than positive that if you put your mind to it, you can bring together a team and make something great.


The one and only,


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Chris Ganuza
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Posted: 8th May 2008 05:03
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1 can I make a commercial game with DX9? I am not going for DX10 since commercially it will be a mistake
Yes, but give FPSC credit, details in the guide.
x10 needs same as above, plus you have to pay them if you make over $5000
2 I played with some of the demos and I saw that the games are slow are any of you getting better results?
Use Directx SDK (software develpoment kit) for better results
3What about ragdoll and AI? Will hiring programmers with DB knowledge can help me to accomplish my mission? x10 migration will be introducing most x10 effects, which does include ragdoll effects

CG
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AlanC
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Posted: 8th May 2008 06:09
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Quote: "I doubt FPSC X9 (or X10) will cut it."


I also disagree. I think that X10 could make a good commercial game. Its capable of making much bigger levels.

$6000 is a lot of money. I'm not sure if you spent all that, that you would make a profit.

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Airslide
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Posted: 8th May 2008 07:04
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Quote: "If you're looking to get DarkAI and DarkPhysics into FPSC, you're going to want to find a DBP programmer who has had much experience with coding them. They are usually found in the DBP board."


I've got expirence with both, in fact I used them not long after they came out. Both excellent plugins, and while I don't think DarkAI would be *too* hard to add to FPSC (Lee did it right ) DarkPhysics might be another matter - simply because of inconsistencies with the way ODE works and the way DarkPhysics works. Mainly in handling characters. Although if characters are kimatic (ack - spelling) objects, DP supports those, so it might work. It's the weird system Lee has for the player I'd worry about.

Quote: "Microsoft pushed really hard Crysis as a DX10 game but bad programming made this game run slow even on new graphic cards."


I actually think that was a driver problem for awhile. Crysis was pretty slow on medium on my rig for awhile (8800 GTS, Quad Core, all the good stuff ) but after a driver update I could run it on High with 60-70 fps. Probably could go higher but my computer rose to 35 or 38 degrees C after playing for awhile and I'm not used to seeing it over 29


FPSC Utilities Page
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Snake Eyes
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Posted: 8th May 2008 12:48 Edited at: 8th May 2008 17:10
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@ Airslide
My 8800GTS idles at 50 degrees C.

@3DGIRLX
Ignore what Chris Ganuza said altogether, it will bring much confusion.

To be honest, i think that no matter how good your models and textures are, if it is made in FPSC, it will distinctively look like a FPSC game. I don't bother playing demos anymore. It is not because they are bad, but at the very core, each is like a reskinned version of the last. I don't think that a game made in FPSC is commercially viable at this stage, but hey, that is just me.

I think that with a budged of $6000, you can easily go a step above FPSC.

The Dead man's hand.
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 8th May 2008 17:18 Edited at: 8th May 2008 17:19
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Quote: "Probably could go higher but my computer rose to 35 or 38 degrees C after playing for awhile and I'm not used to seeing it over 29"

My card got so hot running Crysis that the whole screen started flashing white, so I shut it off.
The back of the case of my computer, where the video card is, was too hot to touch.

Quote: "My budget is set around 6000$ "

Save some for advertising, because that can make or break a game.

Don't forget to visit Conjured Entertainment

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Plystire
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Posted: 9th May 2008 03:28
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@3DGIRLX:

Please don't be discouraged with everyone here about whether or not an FPSC game can go commercial or not.

Do any of your remember Legacy of Cthulhu? (Might have spelled that wrong) They actually got that game out on the market! It got some bad reviews but that's because it was made with FPSC V1.01 (To my knowledge). They didn't have the new stuff that FPSC is capable of now. Nor did they alter the source. So much more is possible by altering the source, and giving your game that custom feel.

I encourage you to follow through with your idea, no matter what engine you decide to go with.


@Snake Eyes:

If that's the way you see it, then Crysis is just another reskinned version of Halo, or Bioshock, or <insert awesome FPS here>. The only thing different between them is a different source and different models, but they ALL revolve around the same FPS core concept, doesn't that make them the same?

The correct answer to this is: No, it doesn't mean they are the same.

By editting the source, making your own custom models and media, and completely revamping the layout of the game as well as gameplay aspects, you CAN make a great FPSC game that doesn't even remotely feel like any of the others.


@CE:

Quote: "Save some for advertising, because that can make or break a game."


That's very true. I remember Metal Arms. Awesome game, and I still play it. But it didn't advertise well enough. In fact, I never even saw an advertisement for it. It didn't sell very well but the people who did play it all agree that it was great and deserved a sequel. But since they didn't sell enough to make a decent profit, they couldn't make a sequel, and I have been sad about that because I think it really needed one, as it could have been up with the greatest games out there.


The one and only,


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AlanC
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Posted: 9th May 2008 09:27
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@ plystire: The game The Legacy of Cuthahu or whatever was based on a tv show or comic or something i know that. If i could get the rights to have the ESPN (American sports channel) name in my game (espn's xtreme hunting [not real game ), i would have so many publishing offers.

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3DGIRLX
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Posted: 9th May 2008 18:06 Edited at: 9th May 2008 18:07
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Hello guys!

Thank you all for your sincere answers and thoughts

Since I am working on an “artistic” project that requires less gaming features I will try the DX9 version and while I am testing it I will experience with the engine.
My budget is set around 6000$ and I may find an alternative if DX9 version will not match my needs.
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Aaagreen
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Posted: 9th May 2008 18:14
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That's one big budget. If you are serious about game making, i would recommend getting a more professional engine. Go here for a list. http://www.ambrosine.com/resource.html

Formerly Bum Fat Cheese
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Nickydude
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Posted: 9th May 2008 18:18
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Quote: "Go here for a list. http://www.ambrosine.com/resource.html"


I have a game engine I started on there, called 'M.u.C.e.S'

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3DGIRLX
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Posted: 9th May 2008 18:25
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just ordered the DX9 for my "artistic" project.
the way i see things now and reading your post most of you say it will be a hard work to milk the DX9 to have a commercial shooter while other engines has the features i need by default. my current budget is set around 6K$ but i may get sponsors that will help me to set it to 10K $.
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Cyborg ART
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Posted: 9th May 2008 19:54
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As I said, tell me if you want help with this projekt.
You can find models and game I have made in my profile.

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Satchmo
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Posted: 22nd May 2008 23:08 Edited at: 22nd May 2008 23:09
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Make sure you either learn to script well, or hire someone who can script well. Nobody yet has pushed fpsc to it's limit, but with a budget like yours, it may be possible to create a well selling game. Lee is making all kinds of improvements(Variables, faster speeds) which will help you make better, more professional games. By the way, you might want to experiment with getting shaders into your game, they really look nice(fpsc supports them).


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