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Geek Culture / Politics

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8truths
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Joined: 10th May 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 7th Jul 2003 01:53
Why do some folks here make political tones, then shrink back when people get wired? There are a few topics when you jump on them will become rough, and politics is definitely in that category.

I'd rather people be pissed about politics than apathetic.

Is that as bad as everyone acts like it is?
We can't stop here! This is bat country!
the_winch
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Location: Oxford, UK
Posted: 7th Jul 2003 02:51 Edited at: 7th Jul 2003 02:56
The trouble with a forum like this is you don't really know who is reading and political jabs and comment that would normally be agreed with or pass unnoticed normally are picked up on and challenged.

If you are talking about life in general I think it's just human nature not to back down when you have made up your mind and to see things in black and white even when the issue is horrendously complicated and proberly doesn't have a right or wrong answer.
Eric T
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Posted: 7th Jul 2003 03:06
kinda hard to do political flame wars when theres too much of a spread of countries, thus peoples opinions are WAYYYYYYY different. Then it'll get too the extent of people getting seperated by country and not by anything else. Trust me i've seen it happen.

Opinions are like a$$holes, Everybody has one.
Kanzure
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Posted: 7th Jul 2003 03:08
And thus, communism was created ^_^..




(No..I live in the USA if your thinking otherwise )

~Morph/Kanzure
8truths
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Posted: 7th Jul 2003 03:10
Winch . . . I sort of see it the other way. I think a lot of folks DO back down.

As a male of military age, politics scares the hell out of me at times, because I cannot believe how casually all the old guys, no longer of military age, on TV scream for wars. Especially in the US, because estimates of disaffection among troops in Iraq indicate that the days of the volunteer army are over-- soldiers are already saying they won't re-up-- and it will be no more than ten years before we see the draft again if that happens.

What is worse, no one our age votes.

Half of them take up this crap like Iraq and root for it -- despite the fact it really doesn't matter which dictator, oligarch, mullah, pope, czar, or suzerain delivers our oil as they long as the deliver it.

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
the_winch
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Posted: 7th Jul 2003 04:00
Quote: "Winch . . . I sort of see it the other way. I think a lot of folks DO back down."


When it turns in to flames after 5 posts other people will be reluctant to get involved. I don't know if this is a reaction to politics or just people not wanting to have to read the flames and mis-information that usually causes them. I suspect as most people here appear opinionated it is proberly because they are tired of the repetative flame war that the posts usually end up as.
Ian T
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Posted: 7th Jul 2003 04:23
8truths, it's like this.

I made a small, political-related joke in my first post. It went on fine for a while, there were a couple more jokes, the topic leaned towards it but generally stayed on topic.

Turning the entire thread into the exact same debate you and Raven have been carrying on for weeks now is a different matter entirely. I'm especially surprised you would do that to a thread that was supposed to discuss a holiday. Hell, I don't think it can even be called a debate any more-- you and Raven have long since both sunk to taking potshots at each other from long distances and using any oppertunity possible to snipe at each otther. If you're going to turn it into a huge thing, make another post about it where you can continue to argue there.

I personally am sick of political arguments. Have you noticed yet, 8truths, that nobody ever convinced anybody? Nothing is gained on anyones' part and all it does is bring out the worst of everyone. You're rather perceptive, and I'm surprised you haven't realised this yet.

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Jul 2003 04:44
... :: yawnie ::

CrayZemon
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Posted: 7th Jul 2003 07:45 Edited at: 7th Jul 2003 07:46
OFF THE TOPIC-

Raven, how many times are you going to change your avatar and signature over the next month? Just when we begin to develop a taste for "frankenstein-yellow-pillow-dogs" you abruptly change it to two different avatars of anime people and a handful of mutant-punk pikachus that came from "the Matrix" (smoking something??). Heaven knows how many other sigs I've seen...

EDIT- oh, and this is coming from a person who's been on the forum for about two weeks.

"I need gopher-chucks!!"
Ian T
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Posted: 7th Jul 2003 08:16
Well, happily, I haven't liked a single one of them and doubt I ever will. So it's no difference to me

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
8truths
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Posted: 7th Jul 2003 08:42
MOUSE! Are you flaming Raven about his avatar?

As for politics on the net . . . It does get a bit radical. But, a lot of that is because the main mechanism for coercing people are missing. There is no eye contact (your real money maker in argument), no voice, no presence, and peer pressure often runs in reverse -- bucking opinions is generally considered more fun, and suffers no checks because the normal social mechanisms are not in play.

Still, I am amazed how an argument -- over hard drive connectors or processors or the virtues of full binaries versus pseudo-compiles -- can actually overwhelm people's passions to the point they threaten each other, but politics . . . well . . . that's just the orange-haired girl with freckles and no figure.

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Jul 2003 09:07
i stopped using Gir cause everyone was using him... it was begining to piss me off - i like my individuality and not having everyone act just like me and have everything just like me.

So i've got things which i liked and edited them in such a way that they're unique only to me ... my av is now probably the final one i'll have, and my sig is changing again soon - but what to i'm not gonna say. (as i'm still working on it in Max, but its something bloody special)
my av was only temp anyways.

that said... if mouse wants to insult my avs and sigs then fine... i'm not the one who has a racoon as an avater and calling myself (dark)mouse - you av is there to say something about who you are.

i think 8truth's with the out of service signal is quite adept for right now

8truths
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Posted: 7th Jul 2003 10:05
Raven . . . that's your best flame? C'mon!

I'll help you out . . .

I like the "test pattern". It is a test test pattern, because if it were "out of service", there would be no signal (read FCC regs on transmitting outside your scheduled broadcasting -- even tests -- day). Also, test patterns are used for a variety of purposes, and frequently are part of the cue for a tape.

Please, Raven counter . . .

Maybe we could watch you assault television history? I'll put up the Indian Head test pattern and watch as you try to convince us the Indian is Hindu, because the Latin root of Indian obviously means a person from India!

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
8truths
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Posted: 7th Jul 2003 10:10
Oh, I've already got part two of Indian Head Hindu test pattern . . .

We could suggest that there are a number of Muslims in India, and therefore we cannot assume the Indian is Hindu. He could even be a Buddhist or a Janist.

That would take us off to the Muslim conquest of India, and bring us around eventually to the BRITS!

We could hit a nice bit about statistical sampling, and the likelihood the Indian is Hindu or Muslim.

And then, we could stare at his feathers!

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Jul 2003 11:21
lmao... aww how cute you still think i'm flaming.
obviously someone just doesn't have a sense of humour

Ian T
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Posted: 7th Jul 2003 18:19
I'd say how pathetic you two were if I wasn't getting a laugh out of this dumb argument. It reminds me of two presidential candidites fidning the smallest possible things to nitpick about each other and generally making fools of themselves in the process.

Altough I must admit, 8truths has a bit more style...

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
8truths
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Posted: 8th Jul 2003 00:30
Raven not flaming?! That's a first! . . . OR A LIE!

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
Ian T
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Posted: 8th Jul 2003 01:20
...sometimes.

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th Jul 2003 02:48
lol ... ya know what i'm finding funny is that 8truths appears to be fighting with his shadow here

8truths
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Posted: 8th Jul 2003 02:59
A known arsonist denies his Flame. Has the Flame been told of this rejection?

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
Arrow
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Posted: 8th Jul 2003 03:55
Quote: "I stopped using Gir cause everyone was using him... it was begining to piss me off - i like my individuality and not having everyone act just like me and have everything just like me."


Know the feeling, that's why I stopped using Yorda. That's why I add my name to my new one.

Teenage Male Geek + Female Remotly Intersted in Common Geek Activities = Teenage Male Jackass
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th Jul 2003 04:06
it no biggie finding other avs and such ... but it is annoying when people copy you and think its fun - i mean don't they like having thier own identity?

WOLFY
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Posted: 9th Jul 2003 00:13
I see no problem with changing Avs, even as much as Raven does. What bothers me is the size of Raven's sig. Are you trying to compensate for something? Geez!

HOOOWWWLLL!!!
CrayZemon
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Posted: 9th Jul 2003 20:27
If you are as influential on these boards as Raven is, it is probably good image to have such large sigs.

"I need gopher-chucks!!"
8truths
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Posted: 9th Jul 2003 20:58
Everybody takes note of themselves their own way. Raven has just picked something a tad more boisterous -- in fairness, that keeps with how he operates.

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
Ian T
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Posted: 9th Jul 2003 21:08
Raven influential? Phhhh, nobody takes him seriously

--Mouse

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8truths
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Posted: 10th Jul 2003 10:04
Back on the original topic . . .

Did anyone see the post, claiming that George W was the 3rd antichrist, that got locked?

Stalin and Hitler missed the mark, but somehow George makes it? That's rich. I may not have voted for him, but I don't think he's the antichrist -- that's a pretty tall order to fill.

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
Eric T
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Posted: 10th Jul 2003 11:01
wait i thought i was the 3rd antichrist....hhmmm

Opinions are like a$$holes, Everybody has one.
8truths
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Posted: 10th Jul 2003 23:50


We can't stop here! This is bat country!
Ian T
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Posted: 11th Jul 2003 04:35
I forget who the first or second were. Why is there such a huge fuss about antichrists when they're obviously all failing to... uh... antichristen? *shrug*

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
8truths
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Posted: 11th Jul 2003 08:53
I seem to recall Napoleon being the anti-christ, because the Pope had been imprisoned by him. Plus, he was supposed to have met some Nostradamus criterion.

Hitler was never declared an antichrist, nor was Stalin.

I believe we get the first antichrist depending on people's opinion of the ex-communication of Frederick Barbarossa II, but that seems like a reach.

There is also a nomination for "the Mahdi" of the Sudan from the 1870-80s. Particularly because he proved to be a false prophet, and did threaten to destroy Christian nations, and did push troops toward Jerusalem (and Armageddon, the hill where the final battle will take place; oddly, the site of a battle between the Brits and the Turks in WWI).

For whatever reason, people seem to believe that the antichrist will rebuild the Roman Empire. Current events sort of make this a long reach, unless you're on the EU-UN antichrist team.

To the best of my knowledge, Napoleon was the only person who has been smacked with it for real.

Oddly, there is not a direct liaison between the concepts of antichrist and the Beast in the Bible. The Beast (who is to come in three forms, thus giving us three antichrists) appears in Revelations (y'know, the part of your Bible you don't tell your kids about, because no amount of Christmas presents and Easter chocaolates are going to calm them after reading it as truth). However, the antichrist only appears sparingly in the books of John.

So . . . hard to say.

The Nostradamans are limping a little -- and are also the source of lot of what we take as doctrine that is not; indeed Nostradmus himself, is a pretty good antichrist candidate under John the Baptist's criteria.

Nostradamus gives us Aug 11, 1999 for the appearance of the next antichrist. However, a few skewers of the timeline will say that given the change over from whatever calender to whatever calander that this becomes Sept 11, 2001, and therefore Osama bin Laden is an antichrist. The Nostradamus prediction does make mention of things from the sky . . .

So, try to figure out what the hell all of that has to do with anything.

The antichrist does seem to have a few clear criteria:

1. He will successfully build or rebuild an empire.
2. He will develop a new religion, to dissuade people from Christ.
3. His coming will either slightly preceeed, or else mark, the Rapture.

I dunno. I don't have a high opinion of this sort of thing. Seems a little odd that the Bible should spell things out (Ten Commandments) on the easy stuff, then get all mystic about the hard stuff!

Most of the antichrist myth is actually developed post-scripture, therefore has to be treated as heresy.

Of course, I'm not a Christian.

And, because I like subtle tricks, I'm placing a 99-1 bet on the current Dalai Lama as the antichrist. He is unusually happy, even for a Buddhist. The kind of happiness that . . . only the Devil can give a man . . .

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
8truths
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 03:03
I was waiting for that one!

Late entry. You will be charged a fee on your next bill.

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
indi
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 03:05
it will be in the form of 3 hamburgers
junoir burger , cheeseburger and quarter pounder.

Solidz Snake
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 03:17
somehow this topic is pretty slow compare to other related "unrelated" topics

Snake? What happened? Snake? Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!!! - Colonel Roy Campbell

8truths
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Posted: 13th Jul 2003 11:35
Slow?

Actually, I thought this thread was DEAD!

Then Geri appeared and started brandishing the Mark of the Beast and giggling like a school girl and pointing at all the dead flowers.

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
8truths
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Posted: 14th Jul 2003 07:52


We can't stop here! This is bat country!
8truths
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Posted: 15th Jul 2003 07:26
Geri, when you said can't decode, did you mean you need a translation?

The Mark of the Beast is 666. Brandishing is when you show something around to others in a threatening way.

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
8truths
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Posted: 16th Jul 2003 06:58
Did you understand what I said, then?

Quote: "The Mark of the Beast is 666. Brandishing is when you show something around to others in a threatening way."


This makes sense?

We can't stop here! This is bat country!

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