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Work in Progress / Comming Soon - Extended Mesh Commands

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Jul 2003 04:40
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currently the list of commands i'm working on looks a bit like this, and it gives you relatively good lowlevel access the to mesh.

Make Null Object object
Insert Vertex ( object,x#,y#,z#[,u#][,v#] )
Set Vertex Position ( object,index,vector3|[,x#][,y#][,z#] )
Set Vertex Position X|Y|Z ( object,index,x#|y#|z# )
Set Vertex Normal ( object,index,vector3|[,nx#][,ny#][,nz#] )
Set Vertex Normal X|Y|Z ( object,index,x#|y#|z# )
Set Vertex Color ( object,index,RGB|[,Red][,Green][,Blue] )
Set Vertex Specular ( object,index,RGB|[,Red][,Green][,Blue] )
Set Vertex PSize ( object,index,size )
Set Vertex UV ( object,index,u#,v#[,coord_set] )
return (dword) = Vertex Count ( object )
return (dword) = Face Count ( object )
return (dword) = Vertex Code ( object )
return (dword) = Vertex Size ( object )
return (float) = Vertex Position X ( object,index )
return (float) = Vertex Position Y ( object,index )
return (float) = Vertex Position Z ( object,index )
return (float) = Vertex Blend Weight ( object,index,wieght )
return (float) = Vertex Normal X ( object,index )
return (float) = Vertex Normal Y ( object,index )
return (float) = Vertex Normal Z ( object,index )
return (dword) = Vertex Color ( object,index )
return (dword) = Vertex Specular ( object,index )
return (dword) = Vertex PSize ( object, index )
return (float) = Vertex U ( object,index[,coord_set] )
return (float) = Vertex V ( object,index[,coord_set] )

this is cause i want these access's and i remember alot of people bitching about not having the same bb3d access - if there is anything else it would probably be best to say because after this i'll be working on Karma so whatever ain't there won't be looked into for a good few months.
http://members.lycos.co.uk/timesaga/p.gif[/img]
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lcfcfan
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Posted: 10th Jul 2003 05:58
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mmmmm

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The admiral
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Posted: 10th Jul 2003 11:25
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cheers raven this will be very useful for alot of people and for alot of reasons. Any idea of what else your gonna add??

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Jul 2003 13:37
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i'm open to suggestions ... i've run into a tiney snag - all of the functions are coded and working well, the snag being is they don't work with dbp objects right now.

so you could only use them using the primatives created from my plugin ... don't worry i am sorting it all out - in the meatime i'll be posting up another plugin later tonite to tide you all over which conserns real terrain/matrices without the speed hit and with better texture and editing options (i wanted them for my DesertFox game to make worlds similar to C&C Generals)

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DMXtra
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Posted: 10th Jul 2003 14:00
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Raven,

Low level access to Vertex and polys are coming in Upgrade 6.
Just a friendly warning.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Jul 2003 14:09
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yeah and we're not even on Update5 ... and this all took me about 20mins, infact the only reason i've not released is because i can't get the inengine object access - something that i was originally told would be part of the update of the TPF for patch4.

people can either wait 6months for U6 or they can wait a few days while Lee tells me how i'm suppose to gain access

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Jul 2003 15:21
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oki doki... just got an email from lee... looks like i'm gonna have to do something bloody creative

so me and my brain are gonna be indisposed for a while cause i'm sure there is some way to achieve this bugger

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IanM
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Location: In my moon base
Posted: 10th Jul 2003 15:37
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Cough, Cough, *interface library*, Cough

1) Find a free memblock
2) Create a memblock of the required size
3) Copy your vertex buffer to it
4) Find a free mesh
5) Create the mesh from the memblock
6) Create the object from the mesh
7) Free the mesh and memblock

All do-able from the interface library.

When the object loader stuff is in place (for loading different formats of object), you may be able to use that as well.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Jul 2003 18:42
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yeah... but the speed lost would loose the entire point of the new commands.

don't worry that is my backup plan and has been even before Lee suggested it earlier this morning.
but i know there has got to be a way to grab the object data directly - else Karma will have to go back to being a 2 instance thing doubling memory requirements.

i've found out howto access the graphics card directly and grab instances... but i'm still yet to find out howto use this to my advantage and get the pointers but still only like 30hrs trying, hopefully i can figure this out.
also noticed a neat way to create Software Shaders hehee, so i might work on that once i'm finished with all of this...

ya know Lee's entire answer to all of my Q's is wait for the DBO Documentation - dunno why he can't just lemme take a peak now lol

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DMXtra
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Posted: 14th Jul 2003 14:56
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Raven,

Why not ask DBS for a Job. You have all that skillset now you could put it to use and things with DBPro could be done three times as fast. You and Mike could work together to do specific tasks. Makes perfect sense to me.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th Jul 2003 17:14
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Quote: "Why not ask DBS for a Job"


i have a fulltime job thanks, i work on my DB/P stuff whilst i should be really sleeping... if i ever sleep would probably be a good question posed someday.

and to be honest i'd rather just use DB/P rather than help develop it, i'm happy extending but actually being on the Dev-Team would spoil my illusion that i'm only doing this as a hobby

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Rob K
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Posted: 14th Jul 2003 20:04
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The commandset appears to be missing a SET VERTEX ALPHA command.

Just thought I'd let you know.


BLUE GUI Plugin: http://blue.robert-knight.net
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th Jul 2003 20:32
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unfortunately setting a verticies alpha value in DirectX 8.1 and above isn't a simplistic affair, i'd require actual access to the rendering pipeling and have to change something in Dx's rendering itself.

however i could set an Object Alpha command, just never occured that it'd be needed with alpha capable textures.

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DMXtra
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Posted: 15th Jul 2003 13:40 Edited at: 15th Jul 2003 13:48
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Raven,

Why not join DBDN then? I personally think its worth it. Not to beta test, but also to be able to know whats really going on and to be able to affect the outcome of DBPro because of that knowledge.

You could see what Mike and Lee are doing and how you would do things different and then help them out by sending ideas, code,etc...

Uprade 5 Beta on DBDN should be out this time tomorrow (its already been uploaded to the FTP site, just needs to be made live).

Since you work with .FX files a lot and shaders in general, you could really be a great asset by helping Lee and giving him code and pointing him in the right direction, same with Mike.

All programmers can learn from other programmers and there is no shame in that. I work 10 hour days so yeah, I am a bit tired when I get home, but I still try to keep up with my projects and also help DBPro become better in any way possible. No matter if thats bug fixes or better ways to code something or new technologies.

As you are right now making DBPro better with your low level .DLL, thats great and I would like to see more of this kind of thing. Like I said I would like to see you giving advice and helping Lee with the latest stuff on DBDN. I think most people really want DBPro to rock, but we can get better results if we all pitch in to make a difference.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 15th Jul 2003 14:48
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yeah, problem is i don't want to be on dbdn ... i have my reasons i've stated over and over again whenever people have asked.
something i've always disliked is being somewhere, people like to sit there and rely on what you know to help out - but where you have to constantly prove what you know.

that is something that truely pissed me off over at RGT, and alot of the RGT user who come here also brought this attitude of "until we can touch, see and hear it you can't do it" kinda attitude.
and i know a hellof alot of those people are also on DBDN, i just don't like the idea of getting that when i'm trying to help people out ya know.

it doesn't have to be the actual people i'm helping out, just if someone is gonna sit there and be all like bitchy about it ... and what would be ever worse is that i'd of PAID to actually have that?!
sorry but no thanks, piss's me enough here let along knowing i've paid for that kinda pissy attitude.

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DMXtra
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Posted: 16th Jul 2003 13:39 Edited at: 16th Jul 2003 13:41
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yeah, problem is i don't want to be on dbdn ... i have my reasons i've stated over and over again whenever people have asked.
something i've always disliked is being somewhere, people like to sit there and rely on what you know to help out - but where you have to constantly prove what you know.

that is something that truely pissed me off over at RGT, and alot of
Quote: "
the RGT user who come here also brought this attitude of "until we can touch, see and hear it you can't do it" kinda attitude.
and i know a hellof alot of those people are also on DBDN, i just don't like the idea of getting that when i'm trying to help people out ya know.
"


I don't know anyone like this in DBDN, its all a friendly bunch trying to play with features, find bugs, and make huge suggestions.

You clearly have talent. It would be cool to use your talents to push DBPro further. Giving Mike and Lee suggestions. Since you built a 3D engine and used shaders, thats very valuable. Lee and Mike can use some of your experience.

All I want to see is the progression of DBPro and you have talent to help with that and you could help guide lee and mike and maybe even offer some of your code.

Hell, I would be willing to pay for DBDN access for you, for six months, if you would agree and put boot to ass and help us push DBPro into becoming the ultimate gaming/multimedia language.

I have already talked to Rich about the possiblity of doing this and he said it would be fine.

I would be willing to put my money where my mouth is as long as you would be pro-active and maybe not be so grumpy.

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Rob K
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Posted: 16th Jul 2003 14:01
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Lee knows a lot about shaders, have you seen the latest SFX demo B2DBP? Getting shaders (most of them) to work in one command is a pretty stunning achievement. However - the rest of DBP needs a lot of work. Someone with skills in writing a compiler / debugger would be more useful.


BLUE GUI Plugin: http://blue.robert-knight.net
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 16th Jul 2003 14:49
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b2db ... thanks for the offer but it isn't a case of being able to afford it, just kinda feel that right now it would be a waste.

as for shaders, they're hardly anything new - your just taking tasks that you'd used to put in ONLY if you though a game needed it or when building technology demos ... only real difference now is that you can do things like True Phong shading in realtime. Any programmer who knows an ouce about 3D can develop shaders, developing them well is a different matter though.

personally i'm interested to know if Lee has simply extended the parser but still essentially using the DirectX commands (like with the current shader setup) or if he's gone the whole hog and actually added them properly into the engine and having them become part of the code.
i mean alot of DBP is good, only it seems that DBP is more of an overlay interface than a language at times... especially if you know Dx you'll notice things and how they work in DBP are close to identical to Dx.

for the next 4weeks i'm pretty indisposed to be any help to anyone, i wanna finish Desert Fox - as i got around 20emails from people bitching about the topic of the game (bloody moaners) i've had to redesign all of the bloody vehicles to not be real, have the story line adapted to be less contriversial ... still plays like a Desert Strike clone, but for all intensive purposes it isn't about the Gulf or Afghanistan conflicts anymore. Decided to have some dictator rise up in the gobii - so atleast i get to keep most of my sandy terrains lol

plus i'm busy with something pretty special, my GeoTerra (Geomipmap terrain plugin) will be out within the next 2 weeks ... i wanna write up some good tutorials, make sure the shader language is working 100% - its pretty stable as is, i've not noticed any glitchs but everyday i am pushing it further and further.

there will also be a command in it, which isn't as fast as i'd like but i'll also GeoMipMap Objects.
right now my idea of DBP 1.05 comptibility is setting up swap interfaces for the Dx interface being called back... crude but i'm hopeing that the GlobStruct.h isn't different.

this set of functions will also be released using my backup plan for editing - unfortunately the Face Count() is about 50x slower than i'd like simply because i have to overhead the memblock data into a VB take the sample and then export again.

ho hum though

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Rob K
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Posted: 16th Jul 2003 15:11
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Quote: "personally i'm interested to know if Lee has simply extended the parser but still essentially using the DirectX commands (like with the current shader setup) or if he's gone the whole hog and actually added them properly into the engine and having them become part of the code."


I cannot say for sure but I strongly suspect the second option - knowing Lee & Mike's love for inbuilt DX commands.


BLUE GUI Plugin: http://blue.robert-knight.net
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 16th Jul 2003 15:43
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Raven - just ignore anyone who moans about your game...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins and other exciting things - oh my, yes!
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 16th Jul 2003 15:49
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i would but as most of these people are my target audience as this is only going to be a shareware title, then i should pander to them a little bit.

no biggie really just means i get to do more art hehee
sides i think the game is looking better now with slightly more futuristic vehicles and craft, i've got some buildings to do today which is gonna be fun ... i think the game is really starting to show what work i've done in the past for similar style titles, not succum to using shaders for anything yet either got some good layer pixel routines for explosions - is making them look pretty volumetic with only a matter of 5-10plains

hope to have a demo of the first mission up on Thursday, get reactions from everyone what they think of my physics engine, the effects and generally what they'd like to see. Kentaree's been invaluable figuring out alot of ideas

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