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Dark GDK / A better way to create games...

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aersixb9
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 07:55
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What's a better way to create games than DarkGDK? It seems like the game-creation kits all create the same games, you're better of modding existing games...too limiting to do anything creative!

Is programming the best approach we've got so far?

What will the future hold for superiour API's? Is there a C# (or even...ech...java...) version of DarkGDK coming out eventually?

Maybe what I really need is a team of programmers to implement my designs. How close are we to programs that write themselves based on english instructions? So that I could write a design document, and have the computer do the rest...

Damn, I need some employees! I think I could make a lot of money if I had employees...maybe I should hire some cheap programmers from India? Does anyone know how much those guys will write D3D code for?
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Grimvoir
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 12:18
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Uh....

Games don't make themselves, I'm afraid. And think about it, if there was something like that, it would take away all the fun of making the game.
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Zotoaster
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 12:20
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What are you talking about? Since when did DarkGDK (nevermind programming itself) only let you make the same games? If you know how to you can make whatever you want. If you want something 'better' than DarkGDK, good luck. It'll either come easier but with less functionality, or with more functionality but harder.

Also, if you're thinking of making a team request here, I don't think you'll get anyone without first having most of your game engine coded yourself to show you have progress and something that can feasibly be finished. And try not to be racist either o.o

Don't you just hate that Zotoaster guy?
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dark coder
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 13:08
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I think Microsoft said in the next version of VisualStudio you will be able to paste in a design document for an application or game and it will generate the code and media for it, because computers are sentient and mind readers and can fully understand exactly what you're doing and find the best way to do it as well as bug test and all sorts.

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MayoZebraHat 1979
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 14:11
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Dispite my want to be super sarcastic, dark coder beat me to it. So I'll just be really dry and informative... HAH. Programming is not a hobby/profession for an idealist. A compiler that based it's interpretation of the English language into assembly or machine code we have now is probably not going to happen. Just English? Requiring everyone to learn the entire English language just to program? Until computers make a significant evolution to work more like a human mind rather than a bunch of transistors switching, we are stuck with machine language compilers. As far as outsourcing goes... you'd be better off finding European demo scene coders who would work for the hell of it. You have a pretty shoddy, narrow minded idea of other countries...

I agree with Zotoaster. DarkGDK is pretty vast in it's ability and easy (if not a lil' wonky yet). There are plenty of robust engines that you can shell out several $10k bucks (just to even get the code let alone publish the final product) for what the big names make their games with then resell license to others.

If C++ is to much then try DarkBASIC. Pretty High level right there. It may not produce an optimum .exe but it works very well and will make any game you want given the effort you are willing to put into it. The syntax is easy, no annoying ";"'s (I learned to love the ";") You do have to provide all the content/data files though. Thus, a really good game requires a team.
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aersixb9
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 18:00
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Seriously - how do I get a team together to interpret my vague design documents into a real game? I'm flat broke, if that matters. If I had a million dollars I guess I could hire 12 programmers for a year here near San Jose...

How do I hook up with those Euro-demo-game-makers? I want a team, and I want to be the lead designer. I only got into coding so I could design, and have held a job as a professional code monkey, which I hated...although they let me do some design, which I loved!

I'm almost thinking about going into QA just so I can test products and make design suggestions...

What should I do? I think I'm a great designer...how do I prove it to others, and convince them to join me?

Also on the power of DGDK, I was actually referring to the "game creation games" (like Bard's tale or GameCreator 9) and not the C++ API's...the C++ API's are arcane and powerful, while the gamecreator programs are simple and weak...

As for just keying in a design document in english, if I had a team I could actually do it! I've been trying to build solo, and it seems like I'm meant to just design and do some, what I call, "Code Design" (where I lay out the code / algorithm in Cish or pseudo, but don't debug it)...

As for BASIC, is it just me or is C++ actually simpler when you're writing real-world programs?
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bergice
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 18:34
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Quote: "Games don't make themselves, I'm afraid. And think about it, if there was something like that, it would take away all the fun of making the game."


That is 100% correct!


Programming Recorder: 2,5 months of dark basic
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dbGamerX
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 18:37
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Visual Basic is the closest you can get to the English language at the moment. If you want the job done, you have to get your hands muddy. No free lunch. No easy way out.

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Mahoney
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 18:38 Edited at: 10th Jun 2008 18:38
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Quote: "As for BASIC, is it just me or is C++ actually simpler when you're writing real-world programs?"


I agree. I don't have much experience with BASIC ( almost none whatsoever ), but, BASIC languages in general seem far to simplified and unstructured for my taste. I love the structure of C-like languages far better than the simplicity of BASIC languages.

Also, if you really want to be a designer and not a coder, then start with writing some detailed game ideas and maybe artwork/models if you can do that to get something going right here on the forum.
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dbGamerX
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 18:44
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Quote: "I love the structure of C-like languages far better than the simplicity of BASIC languages."

I love BASIC (Visual Basic) for app creation. Nothing else. Something too simple is too bad.

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Mahoney
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 18:59 Edited at: 10th Jun 2008 19:00
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Quote: "Something too simple is too bad."


Agreed.

I don't have much experience with VB. It looked alright. A little less unstructured than some other variations that I've seen.
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Zotoaster
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 19:42
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Quote: "As for BASIC, is it just me or is C++ actually simpler when you're writing real-world programs?""


Yes. I think it takes a little more time to get used to everything, but with all the extra features you can take shortcuts that you can't in BASIC. And with OOP, your code never feels like it builds so much that it's too difficult to handle.

Don't you just hate that Zotoaster guy?
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Mahoney
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 19:47
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Like I said, it is much better structured in the sense that it has structure. OOP allows much more organization and efficiency.
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KISTech
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 19:53
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Try programming in COBOL. That'll make you appreciate BASIC.

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Mahoney
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 20:07
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COBOL

You're right. I would much rather BASIC to that!
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Zotoaster
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 20:17 Edited at: 10th Jun 2008 20:18
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No wonder. It was made by a woman

J/k, heheh.

Don't you just hate that Zotoaster guy?
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Mahoney
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 20:24
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Wow. I had always heard that a women started programming. I guess here's the proof!
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Lilith
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 20:46
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Quote: "No wonder. It was made by a woman "


Ahem!!

Lilith, Night Butterfly
I'm not a programmer but I play one in the office
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Mahoney
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 20:48
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He's just kidding. Besides, you seem to know more about programming than most of us!
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Lilith
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 20:54
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I know. I'm just putting in a bit of kidding myself.

I saw Grace Hopper on the the Tonight Show back when Johnny Carson was the host. Truth to tell, I kind of thought to myself, "No social life. I can guess why she had time to dink with computers." Then I turned the question back on myself.

Lilith, Night Butterfly
I'm not a programmer but I play one in the office
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Mahoney
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 20:58
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I know.

I also know the feeling.
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Bishop
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 22:54 Edited at: 10th Jun 2008 22:57
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Quote: "How close are we to programs that write themselves based on english instructions? So that I could write a design document, and have the computer do the rest..."


Wow. Bishop is speechless.


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Lilith
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 23:03
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Quote: "How close are we to programs that write themselves based on english instructions?"


Which we know is an impossibility since something that doesn't exist can't write itself until it itself is written by itself.

Lilith, Night Butterfly
I'm not a programmer but I play one in the office
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programing maniac
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 23:38
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Quote: "How do I hook up with those Euro-demo-game-makers? I want a team, and I want to be the lead designer."


I am working in a team, making a game, and I am not the head designer, and it doesn't bother me. In order to be that, you need a LOT of $$$$$$. The only reason the team got together is because we treat eachother like equals, no one is better then the other.

So I would say, good luck, people don't program because you say-
Program!!!


Quote: "Which we know is an impossibility since something that doesn't exist can't write itself until it itself is written by itself."


I am lost. I have to say is that the best computer are humans.

Global Warfare
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SunDawg
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 23:41
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Having started with C++, I'm a bit biased, but I'd definitely prefer it to BASIC. I work with both regularly, however. With the game I'm working on now, the level editor was written in BASIC, but the engine is in C++.

C++ is certainly the best way to create games.


My site, for various stuff that I make.
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programing maniac
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Posted: 10th Jun 2008 23:50
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I only use free stuff, blender, GDK, visual c++, I don't like to spend my $. P.s.- Is basic the language they use for DBpro and DBC?

Global Warfare
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SunDawg
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Posted: 11th Jun 2008 00:22
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DBPro and DBC are two variants of BASIC. Other popular BASIC compilers include the ever-popular Visual Basic and freeBASIC.


My site, for various stuff that I make.
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dbGamerX
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Posted: 11th Jun 2008 00:29
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Quote: "I have to say is that the best computer are humans."


Agreed. It makes me think... We try to get computers smaller but faster- and we aren't getting far. It seems like we need to make them big to achieve more speed (supercomputers). Then we take a look at an ant. Its brain is big as a dust particle. But it is conscious of itself and more aware of the world than a three and a half gigahertz computer O.o How does God do this?

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Lilith
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Posted: 11th Jun 2008 00:34
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Quote: "But it is conscious of itself and more aware of the world than a three and a half gigahertz computer O.o How does God do this?"


He got the Japanese to miniaturize it for him.

Lilith, Night Butterfly
I'm not a programmer but I play one in the office
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Zotoaster
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Posted: 11th Jun 2008 00:40
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Actually the best AI these days is about as clever as a cricket - better than an ant! Ants in themselfs seem to be so complex in the way they arrange themselfs that maybe their big termite mounds themselfs are concious!

Don't you just hate that Zotoaster guy?
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Juggalo Memnoch
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Posted: 11th Jun 2008 03:30
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Quote: "He got the Japanese to miniaturize it for him."


Nice.
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Bishop
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Posted: 11th Jun 2008 10:15 Edited at: 11th Jun 2008 10:16
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Hard to make a comparison between the brain and a cpu. A cpu does x amount of processes per second, one after another. The human brain, on the other hand, does thousands of processes at the same time, but fewer per second.

Best estimates say the human brain runs comparable to 100 teraflops per second, which is 10^12 calculations per second. ZOOM! However, since the brain runs concurrently, it would probably be more like a million calculations concurrently at some-odd gigaflops per second. Since we really don't have a quantitative method of measuring it, we really don't know beyond guesstimates.

There is another problem; cpu processing speeds are measured in FLOPS which is a floating points calculation. We have little idea how the brain really processes, so to say the brain operates on FLOPS as well is fallacious.

Anyways...
</metaphysical_discussion>


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Mahoney
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Posted: 11th Jun 2008 10:18
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Wow. Quite the epic post for this discussion.
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Bishop
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Posted: 11th Jun 2008 12:44
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Yeah, I've been known to crash a thread or two! I love making situations awkward.


Tux is my guildmaster.
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programing maniac
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Posted: 11th Jun 2008 13:33
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Quote: "Yeah, I've been known to crash a thread or two! I love making situations awkward."

I think you did it again!

Global Warfare
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dbGamerX
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Posted: 12th Jun 2008 00:22
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Quote: "He got the Japanese to miniaturize it for him."


Wow... racist. I was just making a point that an ant is more conscious than a computer.

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Mahoney
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Posted: 12th Jun 2008 00:24
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Quote: "Wow... racist."


It was pretty funny, though.
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Lilith
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Posted: 12th Jun 2008 00:29
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Quote: "It was pretty funny, though."


And not at all racist. Back in my youth Japan was known for miniaturizing all sorts of electronics. Nowadays pretty much all electronics start out so small that there's not much more miniaturization to be done nor does it make sense.

Lilith, Night Butterfly
I'm not a programmer but I play one in the office
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dbGamerX
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Posted: 12th Jun 2008 00:34
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OK, OK. Calm down. I guess the matter is settled =D

Getting back to the topic's point, there are programs like Deep Creator which is a WYSIWYG game creator. I heard they are going to put AI features and everything in there. I'm going to check it out and download a demo.

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