Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Dark GDK / Learning Pace

Author
Message
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 17th Jun 2008 04:08
Link
As someone very new to programming ( and very eager to lose that status ), I thought I'd ask a question for my own reassurance, along with the reassurance of others learning C++.

I've honestly felt like I'm very slow at this after looking at the work of others on the forum ( Jason P.'s OOP Wrapper, for example ). How long have some of you been semi-active/active programmers? Also, I doubt I'm alone when I say that I feel like I'm learning at a snail's pace. Based on the little I've posted ( specifically my latest post here: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=131201&b=22 ), how am I doing, and where can I go to learn more? I've already read a beginners book on C++, and I can't afford another book for now. Are there any websites that you would recommend to learn more?

I hope I asked that well enough.
Back to top
Profile PM
programing maniac
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 19th Apr 2008
Location: Bawk, Bawkity
Posted: 17th Jun 2008 04:24
Link
Quote: "I've honestly felt like I'm very slow at this after looking at the work of others on the forum"


I felt the same way, and it really depends on how you use your resources.

Quote: "How long have some of you been semi-active/active programmers?"


I haven't been for that long, like a month, and I feel like I am pretty good at programming, no the best, but fairly good.



Quote: " I've already read a beginners book on C++, and I can't afford another book for now."


I haven't even used a book!

A good online resource is-
[href]www.cplusplus.com[/href]

It has very good things in it, like right now I am learning about arrays from there.

I think it is really how fast you can learn and how willing you are to do hard work to decide how long it will take you.

HOpefully this was helpful.

oh, yeah, and also, I didn't work on the computer ALL the time, so if you did, then you might learn faster, I worked on it like every other day for not that long. So don't think you have to be a mouse potato!

Your signature has been erased by a mod - 120 high maximum please
Back to top
Profile PM
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 17th Jun 2008 04:38 Edited at: 17th Jun 2008 04:40
Link
Quote: "I felt the same way, and it really depends on how you use your resources. "


Glad to know I'm not the only one.

Quote: "I haven't been for that long, like a month, and I feel like I am pretty good at programming, no the best, but fairly good."


I probably spent about two weeks learning C++. I only spent a few hours each week, though. Not much at all.

Quote: "A good online resource is-
www.cplusplus.com
"


That's were I started to learn it. Then, the next day, I found this:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/cc305129.aspx

I highly recommend reading the whole thing. Wonderful help to learning quickly.

Quote: "I didn't work on the computer ALL the time, so if you did, then you might learn faster"


I've done just about nothing but use the computer and learn as much as I can about them for about two years now. That gave me a huge advantage learning C++: I had a good understanding of how it worked from the start. Though I'm not very good at coding yet, I have built a fair understanding of how C++ is interpreted and compiled and how computers work in general. I think that has been the one thing helping me.

But, I'm only 15. I'm sure it will take me a bit longer to learn this stuff anyway.

Also, if any of you don't mind taking a look at it, I've giving a bit of what I've done with very early stages of my tile-sorting system here: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=131201&b=22.

I was hoping to get some tips with how I'm writing it. I know that all of you know so much more about these things than I do.
Back to top
Profile PM
Lilith
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Feb 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Posted: 17th Jun 2008 05:54
Link
Quote: "I've honestly felt like I'm very slow at this after looking at the work of others on the forum ( Jason P.'s OOP Wrapper, for example ). How long have some of you been semi-active/active programmers?"


It takes a while. I didn't have the benefit of learning the new stuff when I was younger. I began with Z80 assembler and then did some Basic, though I found it a bit cumbersome. I began studying C at the suggestion of someone I interviewed for a job with but only started learning once I was back in the workforce and wanted to write some games. C++ came later.

The best learning experience I had with C a two month long project that I forced myself to complete. It takes some mistakes but the things you figure out from figuring out things on your own are the things that stick with you and give you practice for the bigger mistakes.

Lilith, Night Butterfly
I'm not a programmer but I play one in the office
Back to top
Profile PM
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 17th Jun 2008 15:54
Link
Reading both of your replies had made me realize that, when I'm comparing my small bit of code to that of some of you, I'm comparing the work of a 15-year-old just learning to that of people older and more experienced. I've just been very eager to learn all of this best I can. Thank you both.
Back to top
Profile PM
programing maniac
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 19th Apr 2008
Location: Bawk, Bawkity
Posted: 17th Jun 2008 23:06
Link
Quote: "I'm comparing the work of a 15-year-old just learning to that of people older and more experienced."


Age isn't a draw back.... It never is....

Your signature has been erased by a mod - 120 high maximum please
Back to top
Profile PM
Zuka
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Apr 2008
Location: They locked me in the insane asylum.
Posted: 17th Jun 2008 23:19
Link
Of course it isn't. I'm only just allowed on these forums legally.

If you can do any models for FW, reply to the FleetWars thread.

Click here!
Back to top
Profile PM
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 17th Jun 2008 23:34
Link
Quote: "Age isn't a draw back"


True. It can make you feel that way, though. Just glad to know I'm not the only one.
Back to top
Profile PM
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 17th Jun 2008 23:42
Link
@Zuka

You're 13? I envy you. You have at least a two year head start.
Back to top
Profile PM
I LIKE CEREAL
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Jun 2008
Location:
Posted: 17th Jun 2008 23:43
Link
Lol I envy people that can program no matter what their age.
Back to top
Profile PM
Niels Henriksen
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Sep 2004
Location: Behind you breathing heavely
Posted: 18th Jun 2008 01:14
Link
I have been a professionel programmer for more than 10 years and sometimes I feel me as a noob

Niels Henriksen
www.tales-of-the-realms.com
if Microsoft can sell software with bugs, so can I.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Lilith
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Feb 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Posted: 18th Jun 2008 02:57
Link
I've been at it for close to 30 years but I don't know if I'd say I'm a professional since I don't make a living at it. I'd say that I'm competent but don't throw me in a room with real professionals because the conversation would go over my head pretty quickly.

For me the problem with not working in the field is that I have less inclination to keep up with the language du jour or the paradigm en vogue.

Lilith, Night Butterfly
I'm not a programmer but I play one in the office
Back to top
Profile PM
I LIKE CEREAL
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Jun 2008
Location:
Posted: 18th Jun 2008 03:10
Link
Any chance of teaching me some stuff lol
Back to top
Profile PM
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 18th Jun 2008 22:15
Link
Or, possibly, some French?
Back to top
Profile PM
Antigroup
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Jan 2008
Location:
Posted: 20th Jun 2008 05:04
Link
I've been at it since 13 ('course im only 14 now) and i have found that C++ is the most challenging. The biggest problem i have found was that once you know the basics, you really don't know where to go. I dont understand WinAPI and am not good with OOP in C++.( I have plenty of understanding of VB.NET and C#.NET, i just need to be familliar with all the libraries in it) It is also frustraiting sometimes when trying to use Object Oriented things with DarkGDK because DarkGDK is not really OO. But the most important thing is persistance. If you can't figure something out. Don't stop until you do.
Back to top
Profile PM
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 20th Jun 2008 05:18
Link
Quote: "i have found that C++ is the most challenging"


Pretty much. I love the structure of it, though. So, I don't mind. I love a good challenge.

Quote: "The biggest problem i have found was that once you know the basics, you really don't know where to go."


Yeah. It's like that, though, with basically any language that doesn't have a set purpose ( like DBPro, for example ).

Quote: "I dont understand WinAPI"


Who does? It's in C!

Quote: "and am not good with OOP in C++"


It's a matter of preference, I suppose. But, once you get a hold on the concept of OOP, it really make things more readable and maintainable. Have you seen a larger C program's source? Dear goodness. . .

Quote: "I have plenty of understanding of VB.NET and C#.NET"


Yeah, going from that to C++ will be harder than going straight to it. It is a totally different mind set. ( Well, with VB, at least. )

Quote: "It is also frustraiting sometimes when trying to use Object Oriented things with DarkGDK because DarkGDK is not really OO."


Yeah, unless you go with something like Jason's OOP set, you have to make your own classes for whatever use you need.

Quote: "But the most important thing is persistance. If you can't figure something out. Don't stop until you do."


Exactly the kind of attitude you need.
Back to top
Profile PM
Sephnroth
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Oct 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 20th Jun 2008 19:48
Link
been at it for about 16 years. first programming experiance is when my uncle sat me down at about 8 years old, put me infront of his BBC micro and got out his bbc magazines and let me type up the game listings in the back and then play them.

He was actually just trying to teach me how to type because he "thought it might be a useful skill one day" - but I ended up loving the code more.

Its his fault im no good at sports.

DarkGDK/WinAPI Tutorial [Old - VC6]
Back to top
Profile PM Email
tobi453
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Apr 2005
Location:
Posted: 20th Jun 2008 21:53
Link
I began programming when I was 15/16? . I started with dark basic, then DBPro and finally DGDK.

I'm now 20 years old.

I learned the c++ basics in a school course (I knew basic at that time). Then I bought a good book (it's in german) and learned something about pointers, structs etc..

But the most important thing is to practice. You need to understand how to translate an idea into something that the compiler can understand. That's much more important than understanding every single feature of c++.

Btw, I'm not a professional programmer and I'm not interested in becoming one. Actually I want to become an aerospace engineer.

FINAL VERSION RELEASED!!!!
Back to top
Profile PM
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 20th Jun 2008 22:17 Edited at: 20th Jun 2008 22:18
Link
Quote: "Its his fault im no good at sports."


I blame the fact I like to be in control. XD

Quote: "I began programming when I was 15/16? . I started with dark basic, then DBPro and finally DGDK."


So, learning Java at 13 and C++ at 15 ( and loving it, I might add ) isn't that bad?

Quote: "But the most important thing is to practice. You need to understand how to translate an idea into something that the compiler can understand."


I've learned how important that is. A lack of that understanding is the cause of just about every novice question.
Back to top
Profile PM
Lilith
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Feb 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Posted: 20th Jun 2008 22:32
Link
Quote: "You need to understand how to translate an idea into something that the compiler can understand. That's much more important than understanding every single feature of c++.
"


I think the one thing that tripped me up about C++ was that I wanted to make an object of everything, just for practice. It took a while to understand that you don't have to. And now that I've accepted that, I find myself learning how to distribute the functionality in logical ways by building classes that act as if they're separate machines that do what I say but I have to create some control code between them and system.

Lilith, Night Butterfly
I'm not a programmer but I play one in the office
Back to top
Profile PM
Zuka
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Apr 2008
Location: They locked me in the insane asylum.
Posted: 21st Jun 2008 01:20
Link
Java sucks.

If you can do any models for FW, reply to the FleetWars thread.

Click here!
Back to top
Profile PM
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 21st Jun 2008 01:28
Link
Quote: "Java sucks."


Yeah. With the exception of the whole portability thing, it pretty much does. Integrated networking tools, though. But, the whole bytecode to machinecode process makes it slow as crap.
Back to top
Profile PM
aersixb9
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Nov 2007
Location:
Posted: 21st Jun 2008 04:59
Link
You can run java in a web browser...applets are kind of neat, if a bit slow and deprecated by flash...

http://overspace.panddpictures.net
SourceForge: OverSpace
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 21st Jun 2008 05:03
Link
That is another advantage. It's all about the needs you have as the developer.
Back to top
Profile PM
Zuka
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Apr 2008
Location: They locked me in the insane asylum.
Posted: 21st Jun 2008 05:27
Link
Applets are also a networking programmer's hell.

If you can do any models for FW, reply to the FleetWars thread.

Click here!
Back to top
Profile PM
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 21st Jun 2008 05:31
Link
Never had any experience with them. Just know the basics of the language and the Virtual Machine system.
Back to top
Profile PM
elantzb
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th May 2008
Location: Classified
Posted: 21st Jun 2008 05:44
Link
I started with C++ back when I was about 12 or 13. I've since taught myself a lot of HTML, JS, CSS, PHP, SQL, (some PERL) and now I'm back here with C++ at age 17.

there's still a lot i don't know. you can only learn so much by yourself.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 21st Jun 2008 05:49
Link
As someone focusing on game development and not into web design whatsoever, what other languages are there that I should be looking into?
Back to top
Profile PM
elantzb
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th May 2008
Location: Classified
Posted: 21st Jun 2008 05:53
Link
@Mahoney
depends on the games you want to make. learning other languages was a way for me to switch my focus to other things so i could condition my mind to more understand languages and C++
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 21st Jun 2008 05:55
Link
Are there any other languages that are actually useful to know for game development? I mean, C++ is the best language for making games. So, are there really any other languages that would be beneficial to take the time to learn?
Back to top
Profile PM
elantzb
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th May 2008
Location: Classified
Posted: 21st Jun 2008 05:58
Link
i can't think of any at the moment. i would suggest to learn them as the need arises.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 21st Jun 2008 05:59
Link
OK.

Also, to anyone else out there who might know, what level of skill is required to actually get a job as a programmer? Any professional programmers on the forums?
Back to top
Profile PM
elantzb
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th May 2008
Location: Classified
Posted: 21st Jun 2008 06:01
Link
ask lillith.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 21st Jun 2008 06:02
Link
Lilith? You reading this?
Back to top
Profile PM
Lilith
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Feb 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Posted: 21st Jun 2008 06:13
Link
Quote: "Lilith? You reading this?"


Here. But I really can' answer the question. I'm a professional but programming is something I learned to make my job(s) easier. I'm probably an intermediate with C++, though to beginners I probably appear to be an expert. I know otherwise because I keep my ear to other venues on usenet and see exactly how much I don't know.

And that might be the thing to do. Lurk in some venues that the professionals hang out in and see the kinds of questions and answers that are passed around.

Lilith, Night Butterfly
I'm not a programmer but I play one in the office
Back to top
Profile PM
elantzb
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th May 2008
Location: Classified
Posted: 21st Jun 2008 06:15
Link
perhaps you would throw us the address to one of these expert venues.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 21st Jun 2008 06:18
Link
Alright. I've been considering lately what I want to do as far as my career goes. I'm at the point where I'm hearing about friends getting jobs and feeling lazy not having one myself. So, I'm hoping to find out if all this time spent on learning C++ and similar is worth it.
Back to top
Profile PM
Lilith
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Feb 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Posted: 21st Jun 2008 06:20
Link
I monitor newsgroups on usenet. Most people don't subscribe to a news server so I guess that's not a good recommendation.

Try the forums over at www.gamedev.net. But if you want to see what the real programming world is about, don't use the beginner's forum as your measuring stick.

Lilith, Night Butterfly
I'm not a programmer but I play one in the office
Back to top
Profile PM
elantzb
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th May 2008
Location: Classified
Posted: 21st Jun 2008 06:22
Link
codeguru sounds like a good place too
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Lilith
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Feb 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Posted: 21st Jun 2008 06:30
Link
I forgot about codeguru. I haven't been over there in a couple of years. I've been inclined to overlook their discussions and use them for code inspiration.

Lilith, Night Butterfly
I'm not a programmer but I play one in the office
Back to top
Profile PM
Zuka
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Apr 2008
Location: They locked me in the insane asylum.
Posted: 21st Jun 2008 07:21
Link
http://devmaster.net

Can't forget old DevMaster! Even though its dead...

If you can do any models for FW, reply to the FleetWars thread.

Click here!
Back to top
Profile PM
Sephnroth
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Oct 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 21st Jun 2008 13:21
Link
http://www.gamedev.net
is a pretty good one. but if you want to get a bit hardcore...
http://gamasutra.com/

their article collections are a priceless resource

DarkGDK/WinAPI Tutorial [Old - VC6]
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-09-29 23:19:28
Your offset time is: 2024-09-29 23:19:28