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Dark GDK / Learning Pace

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Mahoney
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 04:08
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As someone very new to programming ( and very eager to lose that status ), I thought I'd ask a question for my own reassurance, along with the reassurance of others learning C++.

I've honestly felt like I'm very slow at this after looking at the work of others on the forum ( Jason P.'s OOP Wrapper, for example ). How long have some of you been semi-active/active programmers? Also, I doubt I'm alone when I say that I feel like I'm learning at a snail's pace. Based on the little I've posted ( specifically my latest post here: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=131201&b=22 ), how am I doing, and where can I go to learn more? I've already read a beginners book on C++, and I can't afford another book for now. Are there any websites that you would recommend to learn more?

I hope I asked that well enough.
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programing maniac
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 04:24
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Quote: "I've honestly felt like I'm very slow at this after looking at the work of others on the forum"


I felt the same way, and it really depends on how you use your resources.

Quote: "How long have some of you been semi-active/active programmers?"


I haven't been for that long, like a month, and I feel like I am pretty good at programming, no the best, but fairly good.



Quote: " I've already read a beginners book on C++, and I can't afford another book for now."


I haven't even used a book!

A good online resource is-
[href]www.cplusplus.com[/href]

It has very good things in it, like right now I am learning about arrays from there.

I think it is really how fast you can learn and how willing you are to do hard work to decide how long it will take you.

HOpefully this was helpful.

oh, yeah, and also, I didn't work on the computer ALL the time, so if you did, then you might learn faster, I worked on it like every other day for not that long. So don't think you have to be a mouse potato!

Your signature has been erased by a mod - 120 high maximum please
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Mahoney
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 04:38 Edited at: 17th Jun 2008 04:40
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Quote: "I felt the same way, and it really depends on how you use your resources. "


Glad to know I'm not the only one.

Quote: "I haven't been for that long, like a month, and I feel like I am pretty good at programming, no the best, but fairly good."


I probably spent about two weeks learning C++. I only spent a few hours each week, though. Not much at all.

Quote: "A good online resource is-
www.cplusplus.com
"


That's were I started to learn it. Then, the next day, I found this:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/cc305129.aspx

I highly recommend reading the whole thing. Wonderful help to learning quickly.

Quote: "I didn't work on the computer ALL the time, so if you did, then you might learn faster"


I've done just about nothing but use the computer and learn as much as I can about them for about two years now. That gave me a huge advantage learning C++: I had a good understanding of how it worked from the start. Though I'm not very good at coding yet, I have built a fair understanding of how C++ is interpreted and compiled and how computers work in general. I think that has been the one thing helping me.

But, I'm only 15. I'm sure it will take me a bit longer to learn this stuff anyway.

Also, if any of you don't mind taking a look at it, I've giving a bit of what I've done with very early stages of my tile-sorting system here: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=131201&b=22.

I was hoping to get some tips with how I'm writing it. I know that all of you know so much more about these things than I do.
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Lilith
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 05:54
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Quote: "I've honestly felt like I'm very slow at this after looking at the work of others on the forum ( Jason P.'s OOP Wrapper, for example ). How long have some of you been semi-active/active programmers?"


It takes a while. I didn't have the benefit of learning the new stuff when I was younger. I began with Z80 assembler and then did some Basic, though I found it a bit cumbersome. I began studying C at the suggestion of someone I interviewed for a job with but only started learning once I was back in the workforce and wanted to write some games. C++ came later.

The best learning experience I had with C a two month long project that I forced myself to complete. It takes some mistakes but the things you figure out from figuring out things on your own are the things that stick with you and give you practice for the bigger mistakes.

Lilith, Night Butterfly
I'm not a programmer but I play one in the office
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Mahoney
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 15:54
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Reading both of your replies had made me realize that, when I'm comparing my small bit of code to that of some of you, I'm comparing the work of a 15-year-old just learning to that of people older and more experienced. I've just been very eager to learn all of this best I can. Thank you both.
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programing maniac
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 23:06
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Quote: "I'm comparing the work of a 15-year-old just learning to that of people older and more experienced."


Age isn't a draw back.... It never is....

Your signature has been erased by a mod - 120 high maximum please
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Zuka
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 23:19
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Of course it isn't. I'm only just allowed on these forums legally.

If you can do any models for FW, reply to the FleetWars thread.

Click here!
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Mahoney
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 23:34
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Quote: "Age isn't a draw back"


True. It can make you feel that way, though. Just glad to know I'm not the only one.
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Mahoney
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 23:42
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@Zuka

You're 13? I envy you. You have at least a two year head start.
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I LIKE CEREAL
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 23:43
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Lol I envy people that can program no matter what their age.
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Niels Henriksen
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Posted: 18th Jun 2008 01:14
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I have been a professionel programmer for more than 10 years and sometimes I feel me as a noob

Niels Henriksen
www.tales-of-the-realms.com
if Microsoft can sell software with bugs, so can I.
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Lilith
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Posted: 18th Jun 2008 02:57
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I've been at it for close to 30 years but I don't know if I'd say I'm a professional since I don't make a living at it. I'd say that I'm competent but don't throw me in a room with real professionals because the conversation would go over my head pretty quickly.

For me the problem with not working in the field is that I have less inclination to keep up with the language du jour or the paradigm en vogue.

Lilith, Night Butterfly
I'm not a programmer but I play one in the office
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I LIKE CEREAL
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Posted: 18th Jun 2008 03:10
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Any chance of teaching me some stuff lol
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Mahoney
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Posted: 18th Jun 2008 22:15
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Or, possibly, some French?
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Antigroup
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Posted: 20th Jun 2008 05:04
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I've been at it since 13 ('course im only 14 now) and i have found that C++ is the most challenging. The biggest problem i have found was that once you know the basics, you really don't know where to go. I dont understand WinAPI and am not good with OOP in C++.( I have plenty of understanding of VB.NET and C#.NET, i just need to be familliar with all the libraries in it) It is also frustraiting sometimes when trying to use Object Oriented things with DarkGDK because DarkGDK is not really OO. But the most important thing is persistance. If you can't figure something out. Don't stop until you do.
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Mahoney
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Posted: 20th Jun 2008 05:18
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Quote: "i have found that C++ is the most challenging"


Pretty much. I love the structure of it, though. So, I don't mind. I love a good challenge.

Quote: "The biggest problem i have found was that once you know the basics, you really don't know where to go."


Yeah. It's like that, though, with basically any language that doesn't have a set purpose ( like DBPro, for example ).

Quote: "I dont understand WinAPI"


Who does? It's in C!

Quote: "and am not good with OOP in C++"


It's a matter of preference, I suppose. But, once you get a hold on the concept of OOP, it really make things more readable and maintainable. Have you seen a larger C program's source? Dear goodness. . .

Quote: "I have plenty of understanding of VB.NET and C#.NET"


Yeah, going from that to C++ will be harder than going straight to it. It is a totally different mind set. ( Well, with VB, at least. )

Quote: "It is also frustraiting sometimes when trying to use Object Oriented things with DarkGDK because DarkGDK is not really OO."


Yeah, unless you go with something like Jason's OOP set, you have to make your own classes for whatever use you need.

Quote: "But the most important thing is persistance. If you can't figure something out. Don't stop until you do."


Exactly the kind of attitude you need.
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Sephnroth
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Posted: 20th Jun 2008 19:48
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been at it for about 16 years. first programming experiance is when my uncle sat me down at about 8 years old, put me infront of his BBC micro and got out his bbc magazines and let me type up the game listings in the back and then play them.

He was actually just trying to teach me how to type because he "thought it might be a useful skill one day" - but I ended up loving the code more.

Its his fault im no good at sports.

DarkGDK/WinAPI Tutorial [Old - VC6]
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tobi453
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Posted: 20th Jun 2008 21:53
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I began programming when I was 15/16? . I started with dark basic, then DBPro and finally DGDK.

I'm now 20 years old.

I learned the c++ basics in a school course (I knew basic at that time). Then I bought a good book (it's in german) and learned something about pointers, structs etc..

But the most important thing is to practice. You need to understand how to translate an idea into something that the compiler can understand. That's much more important than understanding every single feature of c++.

Btw, I'm not a professional programmer and I'm not interested in becoming one. Actually I want to become an aerospace engineer.

FINAL VERSION RELEASED!!!!
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Mahoney
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Posted: 20th Jun 2008 22:17 Edited at: 20th Jun 2008 22:18
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Quote: "Its his fault im no good at sports."


I blame the fact I like to be in control. XD

Quote: "I began programming when I was 15/16? . I started with dark basic, then DBPro and finally DGDK."


So, learning Java at 13 and C++ at 15 ( and loving it, I might add ) isn't that bad?

Quote: "But the most important thing is to practice. You need to understand how to translate an idea into something that the compiler can understand."


I've learned how important that is. A lack of that understanding is the cause of just about every novice question.
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Lilith
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Posted: 20th Jun 2008 22:32
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Quote: "You need to understand how to translate an idea into something that the compiler can understand. That's much more important than understanding every single feature of c++.
"


I think the one thing that tripped me up about C++ was that I wanted to make an object of everything, just for practice. It took a while to understand that you don't have to. And now that I've accepted that, I find myself learning how to distribute the functionality in logical ways by building classes that act as if they're separate machines that do what I say but I have to create some control code between them and system.

Lilith, Night Butterfly
I'm not a programmer but I play one in the office
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Zuka
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 01:20
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Java sucks.

If you can do any models for FW, reply to the FleetWars thread.

Click here!
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Mahoney
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 01:28
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Quote: "Java sucks."


Yeah. With the exception of the whole portability thing, it pretty much does. Integrated networking tools, though. But, the whole bytecode to machinecode process makes it slow as crap.
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aersixb9
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 04:59
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You can run java in a web browser...applets are kind of neat, if a bit slow and deprecated by flash...

http://overspace.panddpictures.net
SourceForge: OverSpace
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Mahoney
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 05:03
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That is another advantage. It's all about the needs you have as the developer.
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Zuka
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 05:27
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Applets are also a networking programmer's hell.

If you can do any models for FW, reply to the FleetWars thread.

Click here!
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Mahoney
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 05:31
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Never had any experience with them. Just know the basics of the language and the Virtual Machine system.
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elantzb
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 05:44
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I started with C++ back when I was about 12 or 13. I've since taught myself a lot of HTML, JS, CSS, PHP, SQL, (some PERL) and now I'm back here with C++ at age 17.

there's still a lot i don't know. you can only learn so much by yourself.
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Mahoney
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 05:49
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As someone focusing on game development and not into web design whatsoever, what other languages are there that I should be looking into?
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elantzb
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 05:53
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@Mahoney
depends on the games you want to make. learning other languages was a way for me to switch my focus to other things so i could condition my mind to more understand languages and C++
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Mahoney
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 05:55
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Are there any other languages that are actually useful to know for game development? I mean, C++ is the best language for making games. So, are there really any other languages that would be beneficial to take the time to learn?
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elantzb
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 05:58
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i can't think of any at the moment. i would suggest to learn them as the need arises.
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Mahoney
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 05:59
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OK.

Also, to anyone else out there who might know, what level of skill is required to actually get a job as a programmer? Any professional programmers on the forums?
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elantzb
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 06:01
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ask lillith.
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Mahoney
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 06:02
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Lilith? You reading this?
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Lilith
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 06:13
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Quote: "Lilith? You reading this?"


Here. But I really can' answer the question. I'm a professional but programming is something I learned to make my job(s) easier. I'm probably an intermediate with C++, though to beginners I probably appear to be an expert. I know otherwise because I keep my ear to other venues on usenet and see exactly how much I don't know.

And that might be the thing to do. Lurk in some venues that the professionals hang out in and see the kinds of questions and answers that are passed around.

Lilith, Night Butterfly
I'm not a programmer but I play one in the office
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elantzb
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 06:15
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perhaps you would throw us the address to one of these expert venues.
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Mahoney
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 06:18
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Alright. I've been considering lately what I want to do as far as my career goes. I'm at the point where I'm hearing about friends getting jobs and feeling lazy not having one myself. So, I'm hoping to find out if all this time spent on learning C++ and similar is worth it.
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Lilith
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 06:20
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I monitor newsgroups on usenet. Most people don't subscribe to a news server so I guess that's not a good recommendation.

Try the forums over at www.gamedev.net. But if you want to see what the real programming world is about, don't use the beginner's forum as your measuring stick.

Lilith, Night Butterfly
I'm not a programmer but I play one in the office
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elantzb
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 06:22
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codeguru sounds like a good place too
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Lilith
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 06:30
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I forgot about codeguru. I haven't been over there in a couple of years. I've been inclined to overlook their discussions and use them for code inspiration.

Lilith, Night Butterfly
I'm not a programmer but I play one in the office
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Zuka
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 07:21
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http://devmaster.net

Can't forget old DevMaster! Even though its dead...

If you can do any models for FW, reply to the FleetWars thread.

Click here!
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Sephnroth
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Posted: 21st Jun 2008 13:21
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http://www.gamedev.net
is a pretty good one. but if you want to get a bit hardcore...
http://gamasutra.com/

their article collections are a priceless resource

DarkGDK/WinAPI Tutorial [Old - VC6]
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