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FPSC Classic Product Chat / [LOCKED] FPSC Model Store = Bad?

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crispex
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Posted: 15th Jul 2008 23:45
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I know people ususally want some kind of compensation for their work, but I'm not to sure about this FPS Creator Store. If you think about it, it is actually more bad than good. Think, if you are adding extra runtime to an application, it runs slower, adding this store cases FPSC to run slower for me.

Also, people used to be proud to place their models on the forums for free use, as long as they got credit. This was the good old days, but ever since the creation of the store, there has been a rapid decrease in models and textures available free of use. If you think about it, people need a little bit of free objects everyonce and a while. Not everybody can pay extensive fees for models. Look at it this way, before the FPS Creator Store, people who couln't afford the model packs turned to the free models that others made on the forums. Well, this has now changed, as many are posting their models for sale. I understand that making models is hard work, and that not everything should be free, but I'm just stating it's now going to be harder for people who can't afford models to make decent games.

Temporarly away from the Phoenix Sentry.
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Indie PC Games
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 00:05 Edited at: 16th Jul 2008 00:21
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I disagree. I think the store is great. Not only are you able to find models and media that is inexpensive but the variety is great. If someone can't afford a couple of bucks for a model or two than they should not be developing games. If you look around the forums there are still plenty of free models and stuff. Also if you go to FPSFREE you will find plenty of free stuff. People should get paid for making killer media and love that the store was released. Go look around at other game engines and model packs. You will spend much more to get what is needed to make a good game. It is not hard to make skins and models for your games so the other option you will have is to make them yourself. Also, the new updates for FPSC are running better than ever for me so maybe it is your computer that can't handle the engine. Praise TGC for what they are doing for game makers. The store is a good thing and has nothing bad about it. That is my opinion.

Indie


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Scurvy Lobster
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 00:14
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I completely agree with Indie PC Games!
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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 01:14 Edited at: 16th Jul 2008 01:14
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i think the store is a ripoff for not only the buyers but even more so for the sellers. imo. model packs ftw!

You'll Know When You See It.

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eekish
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 01:20
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ya it does suk
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puppyofkosh
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 01:28
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Quote: "i think the store is a ripoff for not only the buyers but even more so for the sellers"

What??? The buyers get 50% of the profit while their stuff is sold by TGC, anyone who uses FPSC can buy it, I don't see anything bad there. For buyers they get incredibly good media for incredibly cheap prices.

Quote: "ya it does suk"

Why?

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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 01:33 Edited at: 18th Jul 2008 22:46
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It has its pros and cons.

sig test 6... perfect lol


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Punk13
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 01:43
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Quote: "What??? The buyers get 50% of the profit while their stuff is sold by TGC, anyone who uses FPSC can buy it, I don't see anything bad there. For buyers they get incredibly good media for incredibly cheap prices."


Yes but not until they make at least $500, Bond said he dosnt make any money until he reach's the $1,000 line.

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Nickydude
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 01:45
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Remember though, the store has only just started, those looking for a quick return will be disappointed but it will pay out in the long run.

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Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 01:52
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what, your insain bro, think about it, you have to sell a whole bunch of modles befor you even think about getting paid. i know 4 people that have been in the store since it opened and they have not got a red dime. what you guess see is how many times it has been downloaded, not bought. one person can download the same modle 4 times becouse his software messes up then it counts every time you download it, so the sells dont reflect the downloads. so you have to imagine the sells being way lower then they really are. i looks like people are selling a crapload of stuff. but in reality there not. so when you finley reach that 500 dollar limmit, then you get paid 5 months latter. i dont want that. then it forces them to higher ther prices per modle. think about it. i payed 20 dollars for bond ones pack. it had at least 20 animated guys in it. now i am foeced to pay 5 dollars per guy? rip off.

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puppyofkosh
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 01:57
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Lol! 5 bucks a guy is not a rip off at all, that is incredibly generous for that quality. Also, packs have only a couple of characters, with different textures.

Quote: "Yes but not until they make at least $500, Bond said he dosnt make any money until he reach's the $1,000 line."

Wow I did not know that. But if you do make models, sell them in packs, its not like a minus to put them in the TGC store. Eventually it will pay off...eventually. So its not bad for the developer because in the mean time they can sell their work in packs.

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Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 01:59
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well i have nothing aginst the game creators i just think they need to change some things as far as how they pay you is all.

DSW
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Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:00
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and yes, 5 dollars per modle adds up real fast

DSW
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Thraxas
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:13
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I think the store is much better than the model packs personally... I bought a couple of model packs and only want a few items from them... With the store I can buy exactly what I want without all the stuff I don't...

I'm not going to comment on how TGC pay the modelers for the store, but I'm doing my best to make sure they all get paid

As for there being less free models available that is the communities fault... Someone posts a free model and then certain members of the community (and it's usually the same few members... you all know who!) complain about how rubbish it is. That combined with the fact that a really good model might get downloaded 50 times and there is only one comment in the thread (from Tanya ) thanking someone for their hard work...

Quote: "i payed 20 dollars for bond ones pack. it had at least 20 animated guys in it. now i am foeced to pay 5 dollars per guy? rip off."


Actually in both cases you ripped Bond off... If you don't think his models are worth more than he charges for them you're crazy...

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AlanC
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:19
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I will say this,

ever since the store launched, free models and media have gone down. Very down. Its not that I am not thankful or anything.

Need Game Music? Check out my song packs! Each song only $0.50 each! Now at Moon Rising. ** www.home.moonrisingame.com/Game_music.htm
www.home.moonrisingame.com/_Alan_c_s_music_pack_2.htm
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Roger Wilco
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:21
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First of all, making quality characters takes plenty of time. If you make one like bond does, you'll need to make the base model, add detail with tools such as zBrush, texture the model and generate normal maps and such, then rig it and then, finally animate. Now, a lot of his models have custom animations too, and those take plenty of time to make.
In total, it probably sums up to taking at least a two-digit amount of hours to complete a quality model.
And we all know that time is money. Even if bond would've charged a dollar for every hour he spent on the models, it wouldn't equal to anywhere near the amounts that modellers get paid when working in proffesional studios.
So, five dollars for a character is very, very cheap. I think that most of his models costs less than that, even.

Second of all, here's a comparsion. I plucked a random model off of TurboSquid.
http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3dsmax-fisherman-realtime/175234
See that? That's low-poly, with a low-res texture and it's not even rigged. It costs $54.50. And that's only saying half of it, I tracked down one of the cheaper models.

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Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:23 Edited at: 16th Jul 2008 02:27
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if you think that im spending more then i need to to make a good game, your crazy. bond ripped himeself off in the begining, first he sells real good stuff for a decent price, now its an arm and a leg to buy. the reason i got this programe in the first place was for the fact the prices where so good. now there not.???? soon, in the next couple months the way things are going one modles will be ten bucks. ans as far as bond being riped off, no. ive bought better modles of of turbo squide for about the same. i bout a whole pack of really good modles for only 10 dollars. trust me. he knows his market. if he knew he could make more he would. he is not stupid. he is not here to do us favors. look out there in the modle world and realise there is a huge amont of modles for real cheap. and real good ones to. no offence to him. i love his stuff but am not willing to pay 5 dollars per modle for it.
edit
free
http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/256544

DSW
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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:25 Edited at: 16th Jul 2008 02:26
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Quote: "What??? The buyers get 50% of the profit while their stuff is sold by TGC, anyone who uses FPSC can buy it, I don't see anything bad there. For buyers they get incredibly good media for incredibly cheap prices."



exactly, sellers get 50% of the profit, that right there is garbage, theyre taking 50% of profits just to put it in the actual program, they dont see a lick of money untill 500 or 1000 dollars. i hate to say it, but it sounds like they set up the store so that people could sell in it, but if their models arnt popular enough, they will never see any money for them. the tgc store was a good IDEA, but they went about it the completely wrong way. i mean 50% cmon, thats just dumb. i wouldnt even go more than tgc getting 25%. its like, bond could spend 6 hours making one character, he decides to market it at 3.00$ each character. he would only see 1.50$ of it, so all 6 hours of work put into the character pays off to about....25cents a hour of work per model, per download. in theory sure, it would pay off, but once he recieves his 250/500$ cut of the check, does he have to start over and get to 500/1000$ again to see another check? or does he start getting paid per download...

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AlanC
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:28
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Quote: "sellers get 50% of the profit"


WTF? 50%? Are you sure? That kind of seems low. 60% or 70% would be better. But TGC just wants money I'm sure.

Need Game Music? Check out my song packs! Each song only $0.50 each! Now at Moon Rising. ** www.home.moonrisingame.com/Game_music.htm
www.home.moonrisingame.com/_Alan_c_s_music_pack_2.htm
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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:29 Edited at: 16th Jul 2008 02:29
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Quote: "TGC just wants money I'm sure."


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Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:29
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yes, its only 50 percent. thats it.

DSW
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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:30 Edited at: 16th Jul 2008 02:31
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we should all petition to get that changed, have everyone on the forum refuse to buy anything from the store untill they cut the sellers more of a profit... just a thought.

even though that would hurt the seller just as bad... xD should have all the sellers just start selling same prices on turbosquid untill it gets changed xD

You'll Know When You See It.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:32
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Quote: "i bout a whole pack of really good modles for only 10 dollars. "


Fully animated? Custom Animations?

Quote: "if he knew he could make more he would. he is not stupid. he is not here to do us favors."


I, and many others, have already said we would pay more for the models he makes... If you don't want to pay more that's up to you. Personally I think he is doing us a favour, he could easily move to a different (more widely used) engine, charge 5 times what he charges now and make more sales...

Quote: "the reason i got this programe in the first place was for the fact the prices where so good."


The prices here have always been too cheap! Now because people are so used to getting excellent work for practically nothing they don't truly understand what quality work costs...

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AlanC
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:32
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What dose TGC do to derserve 50% of your profit? You do all of the work, and they just distribute it. That is NOT worth half of your hard earned money. They don't advertise it or anything.

Need Game Music? Check out my song packs! Each song only $0.50 each! Now at Moon Rising. ** www.home.moonrisingame.com/Game_music.htm
www.home.moonrisingame.com/_Alan_c_s_music_pack_2.htm
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Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:32 Edited at: 16th Jul 2008 02:33
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yes , fully animated, riged, ready to go, quit acting suprissed, qiut defending something that is wrong

DSW
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Thraxas
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:33
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Well please link to them so we can all share this good fortune...

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Roger Wilco
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:34
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The 50%-deal is rather cheap, I agree.
But as for the deal about the models, it takes more time to make media optimized for video games, as it requires that you restrict the quality some. If you had no limits with the polys on a character, anyone with at least a couple of months knowledge of a modelling program could make custom media.

In the end, five dollars is still very cheap.

Check out the Gunn3r Games web-site and its growing community, and expand the joy of indie development!
http://www.gunn3rgames.net/
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Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:34
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what enjine????????? do a shearch, this is a gold mine, its not that easy

DSW
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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:35
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Quote: "What dose TGC do to derserve 50% of your profit? You do all of the work, and they just distribute it. That is NOT worth half of your hard earned money. They don't advertise it or anything.
"


they implemented the store....LOL.

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Roger Wilco
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:36
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Quote: "what enjine????????? do a shearch, this is a gold mine, its not that easy"


I think what Thraxas meant was that you could link to the specific pack you bought. But I guess that's just too much to ask.

Check out the Gunn3r Games web-site and its growing community, and expand the joy of indie development!
http://www.gunn3rgames.net/
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Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:37 Edited at: 16th Jul 2008 02:39
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ok ill have all the links for you in a few, but this is not my point. my point is the prices went up after the store opened. and if you whant to pay a millone dollars for one thing, your the one being ripped.its like going into a store and saying i think ill pay you twic as much becouse your prices are to low, lol,lol,lol, give me a break.

edit, pluse it seems you whant more of the game creators people to pay out the wim wam, if you dident you would shut up about it and relise not every one has alot of money thease days.

DSW
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Thraxas
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:37
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Wow all this TGC hate... I'm pretty sure all the people who put models up for sale knew everything before they uploaded...

What they do is put your models right in the program giving you a far wider audience than the people who post here... Some people, one of my friends included, only visit this site for updates and nothing more... Now the store is within the program they have access to models that they might never have heard about...

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Thraxas
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:40 Edited at: 16th Jul 2008 02:41
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If YOU don't want to pay the higher price don't... I don't really care... I'm in no way surprised that there are other models available... What surprises me is that you are saying that you can get cheaper models of the same quality FPSC ready... THAT is what I find hard to believe... The one link you have posted so far is for a poser model... I don't own poser so that is no good to me!

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Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:41 Edited at: 16th Jul 2008 02:44
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thay modle i made fpsc ready, duuu

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/ready-character-3d-model/375786

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3d-ready-monster-character-gimp-model/331555

well heres a few, ill post some more latter, im off for my birth day party, you guys have a good one.

DSW
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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:42
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Quote: "if you dident you would shut up about it and relise not every one has alot of money thease days."


your obviously failing to realize, what business your in here then. this is game making, things dont get handed down to you on a silver platter. game making is an expansive business if you dont create everything yourself, thats how its always been, thats how it always will be. i mean you ve got to be joking yourself if you think 5$ is a high price to pay for a fully rigged and ready fpsc character the quality of bonds work. What can 5$ even get you now a days anyways? a pack of gum, a candy bar, and a pack of cigarettes are the only things i can think of off the top of my head.

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Roger Wilco
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:42
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I've heard stories of quiet a bit of cheap people, since my father used to run a clothes shop. My siblings and other members of the family have worked there, and they all had quiet some stories to tell, no specific one that I can mention right out of the blue, unfortunately.
But this beats all, seriously. Five dollars, two dollars, 25 cents, big difference. It's pocket change, even for a student with no steady income but allowance and money gained from mowing grandma's lawn. If you can't find it in your heart to spend so little for work that's taken plenty of hours, then I don't know what to say.

Check out the Gunn3r Games web-site and its growing community, and expand the joy of indie development!
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Thraxas
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:44 Edited at: 16th Jul 2008 02:47
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Not duuu! Maybe I don't want to spend MY game dev time messing around re-rigging models...

So you just proved my point... YOU had to spend YOUR time getting that model FPSC ready... For $5 I can get one that works instantly... I also get the knowledge that if something is wrong I can get a quick fix...

EDIT
We are also paying for the time people spend working on these models... I wouldn't work for $5 an hour and you can be sure that Bond spent longer than an hour on these models so why should I expect him to?

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ZbVld
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:45
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I consider, that TGC-Store creation is the big step for company TGTS and chance for modellers to earn money for engine purchase, and simply additional earnings. 26 years at me the young wife and additional earnings to me at all will not prevent me!
That company TGTS takes 50 % of profit so we go on it meaningly, nobody forces us!
Thanks TGC for the possibility given to me to earn!

Sorry my English. I from Ukraine.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:46
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Quote: "What dose TGC do to derserve 50% of your profit? You do all of the work, and they just distribute it. That is NOT worth half of your hard earned money. They don't advertise it or anything."

Agreed. I hear the deal is the same for those who sell 3rd party plugins for DBPro. It's crazy, TGC get the same profit as you even though you are the one that did the work.

Multisync - TCP Server/Client Multiplayer Plugin (DBP/DBCe)
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Daniel wright 2311
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:46
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well guess what, fpsc gives thers animations away for free. whats your point, and as far as cheap, damb right buddy.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:49
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Quote: "
http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/ready-character-3d-model/375786

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3d-ready-monster-character-gimp-model/331555
"


You can afford MAX but you can't afford a $5 model... WOW..

AGAIN I don't own max so these are no good to me... FPSC ready is what I want!

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AlanC
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:50
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I'm shreading my TGC store registration papers.

Quote: "we should all petition to get that changed, have everyone on the forum refuse to buy anything from the store untill they cut the sellers more of a profit... just a thought."


Don't waste your time. As long as they are making money, they will not change a thing. You can't stop everybody from buying from them.

Need Game Music? Check out my song packs! Each song only $0.50 each! Now at Moon Rising. ** www.home.moonrisingame.com/Game_music.htm
www.home.moonrisingame.com/_Alan_c_s_music_pack_2.htm
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Punk13
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:52
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Quote: "too cheap"


Dude nothing can be too cheap

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Thraxas
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:53
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I can't count how many times I have read "I can't buy non-official products, my parents won't let me'... So ok 50% might seem too much (and I'm not saying it isn't) but putting them in the store makes them official and you get a sale you weren't getting before!

Plus by using the official store you know what you are doing is legal... I doubt that some of the people who offer to do this for you on other forums even have a business license!

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AlanC
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 02:57
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I hate it how people will defend a company no matter what they do.

Quote: "you get a sale you weren't getting before!"


If you know how to get your product out to the public, you can make a good profit.

Need Game Music? Check out my song packs! Each song only $0.50 each! Now at Moon Rising. ** www.home.moonrisingame.com/Game_music.htm
www.home.moonrisingame.com/_Alan_c_s_music_pack_2.htm
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Thraxas
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 03:01
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I'm not defending TGC... BUT nobody was forced at gunpoint to sign the agreement... IF you think you're being ripped off by them then don't sell through their store... TBF this wasn't anything to do with TGC this was a user complaining about spending $5 on a model... Who sets the model price TGC?

I didn't say you couldn't make money... but if someone cannot buy unofficial products then all the advertising you do is for nothing...

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Roger Wilco
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 03:01
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Quote: "Plus by using the official store you know what you are doing is legal... I doubt that some of the people who offer to do this for you on other forums even have a business license!"


That's one point worth mentioning in favor of the store's defense. I never thought of it that way before.

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bond1
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 03:06 Edited at: 16th Jul 2008 03:08
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I can't think of anything bad about the store, for once a company is looking out for the "little guy", nowhere else can you buy game assets so cheap and ready to use.

TGC IS advertising this, the press release about the store made it into 3D Magazine website. I've read that magazine on a monthly basis for 3 years now - how cool is that?

Plus you get access to free advertising and large community that TGC, not you, built.

For those who say 50% is too much, that is how much Turbosquid charges as well. And TGC has put a lot of work into the store. Plus they are releasing their own software at no charge with the FREE version of FPS Creator. That is going to really open FPSC up to a lot of people and blow the doors off this place. That's pretty awesome.

How about a little challenge? To the first person to find a game-ready animated character model, that is comparable to one of my recent character models, that is within 3x the price that TGC is offering them for. I will give that person one of my characters for free, your choice, if you can provide a link. Start looking!

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AlanC
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 03:32 Edited at: 17th Jul 2008 01:26
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... it's amazing how uneducated people are.

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bond1
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 03:40 Edited at: 16th Jul 2008 03:41
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Quote: "FPS Free could just be a marketing ploy to bring in more money for themselves"


Well - duh. Isn't that the point of ANY business venture?

Quote: "If not, the user will have to buy more models, music, and sound from the store to replace what's missing. Bringing in more money for TGC. Correct me If I'm wrong.
"


Duh again. And it brings more money in for the store modellers as well. What the hell are you getting at here, because nothing in your post makes any sense... More FPSC users, more money for TGC, more money for store modellers, FPSC becomes more successful so TGC puts more of their resources into it....we all win.

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