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3 Dimensional Chat / *.X model, Where has transparency gone?

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sydbod
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Posted: 17th Jul 2008 11:16
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Hi All,

I have been trying to convert a few free *.3DS files into *.X files for a project I am trying out.

Every time I convert to the *.X file the transparent areas (cockpits of aircraft, propellers, etc) just become nontransparent in both the DirectX viewer, as well as in the game.(it happens with every conversion program I have so far tried)

Can anyone please shed some light into what I am doing wrong, or should I provide a copy of the models for others to look at?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. (I have done a search but can find nothing)
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Osiris
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 03:20
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Well, since they are free you should post em for people to check with, however maybe the texture on the plane has no alpha, maybe it just had a lowered opacity in max.

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
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sydbod
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 18:48
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Thanks for the reply Osiris,

To the best of my knowledge (and that is not very much) the transparent objects are transparent materials rather than being skinned in transparent textures.

Anyway here is one of the aircraft 3DS models of a P51D.
I have also included a converted *.X version of the model in there to demonstrate what the problem is when you view it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Osiris
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Posted: 19th Jul 2008 00:46
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Yeah, transparent parts are native to max, most game engines or viewers wont recognize that. I dont think it even exports either.

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
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sydbod
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Posted: 19th Jul 2008 05:34
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Quote: "most game engines or viewers wont recognize that."


AHHHHH... so I am probable (but not totally excluded) not stupid.

What would I have to do?
Just skin the Cockpit/Prop polygons in a transparent texture before converting the file to *.X format? (Sigh!!!! will have to learn Blender or something to do that ... something I wanted to avoid)
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Osiris
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Posted: 19th Jul 2008 06:06
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Yeah, your going to actually have to re-texture it. With transparent areas.

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 19th Jul 2008 14:02
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And of course makes sure the texture format you're using can handle alpha channels - bmps and jpgs tend not to, but png should have little or no problems.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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sydbod
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Posted: 19th Jul 2008 14:43
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Quote: "but png should have little or no problems."


Yes, I was thinking 32bit PNG files. (I suspect the 24bit PNG do not have alpha information.)

It is amazing how one has to be a "jack of all trades" to do even simple things with game engines. ...... it almost makes one want to take up drink.
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Osiris
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Posted: 20th Jul 2008 09:24
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Use a nice old Non-lossy format. Targa (32-BIT)!

*I wish there was a superhero emoticon*

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
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sydbod
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Posted: 20th Jul 2008 12:22
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While we are talking about it, what are the pros and cons between files like *.TGA and *.PNG .

Is there a format that is becoming the default standard currently that we should try to standardize on?

I don't like *.JPG , but what is the best of the non-lossy formats out there?
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Osiris
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Posted: 20th Jul 2008 19:50
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Well Targa is pretty much standard because you can open it and change stuff as much as you want and it wont lose any detail through compression. Other formats act like printed paper and a scanner, like if you scan something and scan the copy of that and so on eventually it will be an unrecognizable blob. Also, PNG is more for internet stuff "Portable Network Graphics".

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
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sydbod
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Posted: 21st Jul 2008 05:49
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Thank you Gentlemen, every bit of enlightenment will not get wasted.
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JoelJ
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Posted: 21st Jul 2008 06:53
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PNG is superior.

you could just edit the texture file itself, and make the cockpit texture transparent. you can do that in Photoshop really easily, or THE GIMP or PAINT.NET as those two are free.

[center]
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Osiris
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Posted: 21st Jul 2008 07:16
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How is PNG Superior?

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
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sydbod
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Posted: 21st Jul 2008 09:32
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Quote: "and make the cockpit texture transparent. "


I wish it was that easy.

If you look at the files I provided, the cockpit has not textures to make transparent. The material property for the cockpit is actually transparent, and this can not be carried across to a *.X file.

I suppose the real problem with any sort of game development is that the correct resources have to be in place before any code is even being written.

In my case, there has to be at least one aircraft model that is to scale, has working skins and transparency, and has the correct limbs for animation (undercarriage and propeller at least).

For me this is proving to be a nightmare, because I can not ask for help (getting a model) in creating a project, since the project is not advanced enough (the forum rules), and I can not get advanced enough in the project without spending HUGE amounts of time trying to get the expertise in an area that I know nothing about.

Oh well, life was never meant to be easy .... or so they tell me.
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Osiris
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Posted: 21st Jul 2008 18:52
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Well, you could always use a place holder until the you really need the model. Or just ask if someone could unwrap the model for you.

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
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sydbod
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 04:50
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Quote: "a place holder"


Yes that is what this P51 model will actually be.

One still tends to get problems like not having a working undercarriage.
So one just avoids developing code around that area.
But then one hits the snag of testing flight models (at take off and landing speeds). One can not verify aircraft handling on the ground and whether the tail of the aircraft actually lifts as speed increases.
It is all those little things that represent around 90% of the code functionality that can not be done without a proper starting model.

Oh well, as they say "Santa helps those who help themselves".

The decision is made ...... time for this little black duck to learn some model making.
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Osiris
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 05:48
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Well, there is no reason it needs transparency if all you need is animations to work, I mean that only effects the bling of the game.

RIP Max-Tuesday, November 2 2007
You will be dearly missed.
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sydbod
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 08:35
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Quote: "Well, there is no reason it needs transparency if all you need is animations to work,"


It is nice to be able to see out of the cockpit.
I have been using a workaround of placing an image over the face of the camera to simulate the pilot view, but it is disjointing my code.

Anyway I have managed to remove the mesh for the cockpit and prop, so I should now be able to remove the fake cockpit overlay and get on with a bit more coding.

Just for fun, a picture is included

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