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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Test my Physics! Give me your FPS!

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Fallout
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Posted: 16th Jul 2003 23:33
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Ok, instead of me spending hours waiting for a bug to appear, I thought I'd get you guys to do it for me ...

Actually, there shouldnt be many/if any bugs. I think they're all sorted out. All I need for you guys to do is spend a few minutes watching this car tear its way across a randomly generated landscape, flipping and crashing and jumping. Then tell me your specs and your average FPS. I get about 180 FPS. I'm thinking it should run at a good 100FPS on most middle-low systems, and 50FPS on low end systems. The car might move like a missile on real high end systems.

This is still very early ... you'll notice the car isn't exactly a car. The colour spheres indicate the front and rear, so if the front ends up at the back, you know the cars on its roof, and that'll explain why its not going anywhere. It'll blow up and respot itself when it stops sliding down the hills or cartwheeling, or whatever.

If you spot any weird physics things which are blantently wrong, please mention them here, with any info you can give ... especially info like
-on an uphill or downhill, or flat
-at high speed or low speed
-travelling at a similar angle to the gradient, or sharply against it
-whether the car was on its roof or not
-any other info you think seems necessary

Above all though, I need FPS quotas and machine stats.

Cheers for your help.

Go here - http://www.kontact-kru.com/game/Speeder.zip (2MB)
Machine: P4 2200, 1GB RAM, GeForce4 64MB, Audigy Platinum
http://www.breakbeat-terrorism.co.uk
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Falelorn
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Posted: 16th Jul 2003 23:49
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70-74 frames per second
p4 1.5G
512ram
gforce 2 - 64mb
win xp home

Worked well. The car did a couple flips in the air but the front tire always went front, so I guess it landed the right way.
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spooky
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Posted: 16th Jul 2003 23:53
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105 fps
Laptop
P4 2.53G
256mb
ATI Radeon Mobility 9000 (64mb)
Win xp home

Nice! Only comment is when 'car' goes up a really steep hill and slows down (as it should), it seems to fly too high when it eventually reaches the top.

R Tape loading error
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adr
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Posted: 16th Jul 2003 23:57
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Dude! those are some cool physics...

~121 FPS
P4 2Ghz
GeForce 2 Pro (!)
512MB RAM

Bender:Blackmail’s such an ugly word. I prefer extortion. The x makes it sound cool.
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Codger
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Posted: 17th Jul 2003 00:01
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I was watching the demo for about 2 mins before i noticed the frame rate in the corner.

145 FPS
PIII 650 HP Pavillion
394 RAM

Geforce4 64meg 440 mx
XP Pro

Same comments as Falelorn

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Fallout
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Posted: 17th Jul 2003 00:18
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hehe, thanks guys. They're some good stats. There's obviously going to be more cars and detail, but I think the most power hungry bits and pieces are in place and it seems to be running at a decent FPS on most specs.

Sonic - that's just the gravity constant. Lower gravity = more air at low speed. I may well make levels on different planets, with moon levels and jupiter levels, so expect high gravity where cars stick to the ground and low gravity where cars spend most of their time in the air. All depends on what theme I give the game.

Once again, cheers for the info guys.

Machine: P4 2200, 1GB RAM, GeForce4 64MB, Audigy Platinum
http://www.breakbeat-terrorism.co.uk
(It's not all about the coding)
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 17th Jul 2003 01:37
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10fps
Duron800Mhz
GeForce2 mx200
128Mb Ram
WinXP Pro SP1
DirectX 9.02

i put it on my other systems and they just ran it at 1,500fps but they all have GeForceFx's in them right now - not one is under 2ghz so erm don't think it really matters as it isn't very likely many people will have similar setups lol

tried to test on Alexis' system, but for some reason i kept getting an error message (dumbass Radeons ) some problem with the Dx system

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Dr DooMer
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Posted: 17th Jul 2003 02:42 Edited at: 17th Jul 2003 02:51
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A consistent 70fps - very nice demo, too!

I'm on a 2.4ghz Pentium 4, 512mb DDR memory and a 128mb Radeon 9000 Pro. The only weird thing I noticed was that the speeder managed to flip itself over on seemingly flat terrain.

I made something like this a while ago, but it was more about tank treads and suspension going over rough terrain. Problem is, I think I deleted it all...

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Fallout
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Posted: 17th Jul 2003 05:20
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The only weird thing I noticed was that the speeder managed to flip itself over on seemingly flat terrain.

Shhh. Nobody else watched it long enough to notice that. That's a semi bug. One of the parameters you pass to the function that randomly generates the track is bumpiness, and it simulates bumps on the matrix, even though there arent actually any there. The only problem is occasionally on a joint between two matrix tiles, it seems to invert the bump into a ditch.

If the car wipes out and is respotted just before a tile join that happens to have a ditch, you can see the ditch. The cars wheels bounce down into it, one after the other like a big ass pot hole and at really low speeds it gets stuck. At high speeds, the little ditch is obviously enough to throw the car into the air.

I've actually stuck in some smoke trail effects, and put in another 4 cars - same FPS oddly enough. It's obviously just the graphics that slow it down. The code is effectly running 5 times per loop to process all 5 cars, and the FPS is the same. Anyways, the computer cars dont actually slip up in the same place. Where one car hits one of these ditches, one that's a fraction slower etc etc. doesn't, so basically, when it happens, it's bad luck.

I should really sort it out though. I'll find out how annoying it is as the game progresses into one you can actually play yourself. Can't say how much easier it is to have A.I. controlling the cars as you add stuff though. You just hit F5 and wait for it to happen, rather than having to control the thing yourself.

Btw, thanks Raven. A warning to everyone - nobody play this on an 800mhzDuron with an Mx200 else it'll suck.

Machine: P4 2200, 1GB RAM, GeForce4 64MB, Audigy Platinum
http://www.breakbeat-terrorism.co.uk
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Puffy
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Posted: 17th Jul 2003 06:19
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=\ It works fine... but the tires leave some ramps kinda early...

EVERYONE LOVES THE PUFF!... =\
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 17th Jul 2003 09:05
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hey Doomer thats the one where i clocked up 250mph in the tank wasn't it?

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randi
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Posted: 17th Jul 2003 09:12
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I got 110fps...
then it went down to 70fps...
then to 30fps...
then 0fps...
then my computer blew up.
and then ummm...ummm...

Oh wait...
I didn't even download it.
I just like to mess with Fallout.



Randi
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Ratty Rat
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Posted: 17th Jul 2003 13:05
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System - AMD Athlon XP 1.8ghz, Ge-Force 2 Pro 32MB, 1GB RAM, win 2000 pro - got about 75-80 fps.

Very nice fallout, it looks as though your doing your physics (momentum, gravity, rebound) on two seperate points (where the front and rear balls are) attached by a rigid line (the box) which produces the tumbling etc. Makes me wonder how easy it would be to do the same on 4 points, and how you could attach them ( an 'H' shape might be better than a square)?

Anyway, nice demo!

"Don`t try to engage my enthusiasm, I don`t have one"
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Yuri
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Posted: 17th Jul 2003 13:40
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celeron 1333 256 Mbytes win xp ati mobility

blank screen an then exit..

CBMZone main administrator
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Dave J
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Posted: 17th Jul 2003 14:01
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Pentium 400mhz
Radeon 7000 Pro
30 FPS

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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Fallout
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Posted: 17th Jul 2003 14:09 Edited at: 17th Jul 2003 14:11
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Yuri ... ouch. I assume you're on a laptop. The resolution is fixed at 1024x768x32 at the moment. I'm guessing yours is 800x600 max, so that's probably it. If not, then I don't know.

Ratty:
Yep, in essence, that's it. Two points and one rigid line is easy. As soon as you go for more, that's when it gets tricky. And collision with rigid line stuff throws up problems too. Give it a go with the H stuff. I've been working on a physics system that'll work for anything using dynamic creation of rigid lines, then I'll release it as open source. I just can't make anything except 2D physics until zrotate object works.

Randi:
Notice how I don't care. Notice how you're the after thought of my post. Notice how your post is forgotten in and instant. Sorry? Who? What? What did you say again? What is your name? How ...??? Sorry, no time for you! Bye bye.

Machine: P4 2200, 1GB RAM, GeForce4 64MB, Audigy Platinum
http://www.breakbeat-terrorism.co.uk
(It's not all about the coding)
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Dave J
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Posted: 17th Jul 2003 17:49 Edited at: 18th Jul 2003 09:51
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I think failing to acknowledge Randi's post at all would've been somewhat more effective.

Edit: I can't sepll

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 17th Jul 2003 18:13
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lol... exeat let the children play

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Soyuz
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Posted: 17th Jul 2003 19:44
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Yuri, your avatar makes a real stand for gay spacemen - I applaude your desire to come out in the open like that.
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 17th Jul 2003 22:03
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I got around 290-300 fps. It did get stuck and wouldn't move at some point for some reason...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins and other exciting things - oh my, yes!
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Fallout
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Posted: 17th Jul 2003 22:53
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Cheers. Yep, still ironing out a few more bugs. To be honest, I haven't got a clue whats causing them, so no doubt they'll be real head scratchers. Just getting some other essentials in place first.

FPSs are still looking good!

Machine: P4 2200, 1GB RAM, GeForce4 64MB, Audigy Platinum
http://www.breakbeat-terrorism.co.uk
(It's not all about the coding)
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 17th Jul 2003 23:10
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Indeed - its a clever demo...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins and other exciting things - oh my, yes!
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Dr BOK
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Posted: 17th Jul 2003 23:32
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390-420 FPS
athlon XP 1.8ghz
512mb ddr pc2700
geforce 4ti4200

I watched it for ages - Sort of hypnotic in a way. Nice physics mate.

Flawless Designs
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Dreamora
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 00:26
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raven, when will you learn that your benchmarks are useless? 128 MB ram + winxp is suizide for any multimedia programm as winxp uses nearly the whole ram for its core parts.

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iammesol
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 00:43
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great game, nothing wrong w/ it, and by the way....




YOURE MIXING RULES!!!!!!!!!!! ELECTRONIC MUSIC REIGNS!!!!!!

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 00:46
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Its a good test to see what happens with limited resources/XP under stress.

Was this demo written in DBPro ?

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins and other exciting things - oh my, yes!
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Fallout
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 02:48
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Dr Bok - cheers buddy. I'll get the next version up as soon as the geeza doing the car model gets it done. The current version has one bug sorted out, 5 cars racing about and smoke trails, plus the background scrolls. Slowly coming together. Loads more to do though. It's cool watching 5 cars race against each other.

iammeso -nice one. You check out the tracks, or just my 20 minute mix on the decks?

Machine: P4 2200, 1GB RAM, GeForce4 64MB, Audigy Platinum
http://www.breakbeat-terrorism.co.uk
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Dr DooMer
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 03:21 Edited at: 18th Jul 2003 03:45
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I'm not sure, Raven - I think I released the source here a while ago (I'll look back through the topics in a moment), but it didn't have any kind of speedometer. In fact, it didn't have much at all - just four cyclinders, a box and a wireframe matrix!

EDIT: No, can't find it, not even with the Google forum search trick. I'll wait until we've got proper forum searching and try again, since I want to play around with it again!

What are your car models like, Fallout? I'd quite like to make one of them myself, if you need some; perhaps even have a mini-compo to see who can come up with the best!

Oh, and translating the same thing into 3D is far harder than just the XYZ euler rotation, Fallout. I made mine in 2D first, but then found out I'd have to use things called quaternions if I wanted realistic 3D rotation. Saying they're a bit tricky is a massive understatement!

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Fallout
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 03:47
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Well, here's a bit of design art of the sort of thing I was after. Wanted to go dune buggy style, and I wanted to keep the cars fairly flat, so the wheel height is almost as high as the car, as this makes my collision a lot easier to handle. Wheels must be at the front and rear of the vehicle as well. Basically, all the collision and friction and physics is based on this sorta model shape.



Feel free to have a go making a model if you like. I can't guarentee I'll use it though, but I'll definitely try it out in the game. The only rules are it has to be similar to the diagram in dimensions at least and it has to be low poly - and we're talking 500 at the most really. Yep ... that low poly. Doesnt need to be any bigger with the distance its at.

Machine: P4 2200, 1GB RAM, GeForce4 64MB, Audigy Platinum
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Dr DooMer
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 03:58
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Yeah - those guidelines seem good. Time to put my Rhino NURBS modelling to the test!

I'll email you the result in a few days.

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Fallout
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 04:37
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Cool. Like it. There's a beer in it for you.

Machine: P4 2200, 1GB RAM, GeForce4 64MB, Audigy Platinum
http://www.breakbeat-terrorism.co.uk
(It's not all about the coding)
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HZence
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 09:09
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60-70 FPS
p4, 1.6 ghz
640 megs ram
geforce 4 mx 440 (pci )
winxp

Hey, is anyone else noticing the strange differences here?

Codger
145 FPS
PIII 650 HP Pavillion
394 RAM

Dr DooMer
70 FPS
Pentium 4 2.4ghz
512mb DDR memory
128mb Radeon 9000 Pro.

What gives? Doomer, who's system undoubtedly beats the specs of mine, gets the same FPS. Yet Codger, who's system...uh...well I don't really need to say anything... ...what's up with that?

SW Games - www.freewebs.com/swgames

Yeah, I know, I only have one game. Yeah, I know it sucks. But I made it! Me!
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Rpg Cyco
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 09:43 Edited at: 19th Jul 2003 07:17
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197-215 FPS
AMD Athlon XP 2000+
512MB DDR333 RAM
128MB GeForce 4 MX440SE
Windows XP - Service Pack 1
DirectX 9.0a

I liked it, good work!

l8ter

Rpg Cyco

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Dave J
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 09:55
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Quote: "lol... exeat let the children play "

Yeah, sometimes I think it's better to just let people be.

Quote: "Feel free to have a go making a model if you like. "

I also may have a go because I've got quite a bit of free time on my hands, although I'm pretty sure Doomer will be more succesfully then I lol.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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Codger
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 10:36 Edited at: 19th Jul 2003 02:01
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hzence
I was noticing the same thing it seems that generally the graphics card is far more important than the rest of the system. I have thought about updating my PIII 650 but it still seems to "kick Ass" on anything except Ravens 2g primo mythical systems “1500 fps”. I have been into computers since the Apple II and know how to keep my system clean. e.g. Never allow your hard drive to pass 50% full etc. but I really believe that odd number releases are always beter than even. For example Pentium (I) cool big jump from 386. PII loser, PIII great P Iv (Intel needed the money). Acad never buy the even number upgrades, MsAccess same rule

The only other factor I have noticed over the years is that "Hodge pot systems" suck. If you use the cheapest components the results are really unpredictable. Brand names are better than generics, HP, IBM, Alienware etc have engineers that compare interaction of components others just name drop.

I would really like to see a database of systems compared with a standard set of programs so we can decide whether to "upgrade to the latest Graphics card, CPU etc.

System
PIII 650 MZ H.P. Pavillion
394 Mem GeForce 4 400MX
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Ishamael Sedai
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 12:39 Edited at: 18th Jul 2003 12:40
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130 fps
AMD athlon 1.2 gz
128 DDRAM
gforce 2 gts 32 mb
hmm...what else.... i dunno
windows me * cant run db under linux yuh *
poor system ressources
cd audio running......* dmx*
a bit odd that's it's so high i think

I am the Betrayer of hope naebl'is by the will of
the Great Lord of the Dark. If you do not want to surrender, your soul will burn in the deepest hole of the Pit of doom.
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randi
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 22:02 Edited at: 18th Jul 2003 22:04
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I just tried the demo...
OOOH!! A car game how original.
I would have never thought of that.
(Inside joke, no flames please)

And it kept laying these green eggs.

I got around 40fps
1.4ghz P4, geforce II, DX 8.1


Randi
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HZence
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 23:04
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Codger -

Yeah, you'd think that about the whole graphix card dealy, but there are people here with geforce2s outperforming geforce4s. DO NOT count me there, my geforce 4 SUCKS (MX 440 64 meg SD, PCI! Yes, PCI! it sucks, i need a new one!)

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Yeah, I know, I only have one game. Yeah, I know it sucks. But I made it! Me!
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Dr DooMer
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Posted: 19th Jul 2003 04:01 Edited at: 19th Jul 2003 04:03
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Yes, I noticed that too about my framerate, HZence, and I'm still trying to figure out what gives. I doubt it's a Radeon/GeForce thing because Sonic manages to get above 100fps with a Radeon, even on a laptop. I've tried turning off all my little extras (auto-wallpaper changer, Norton AV, Sonique, etc) and turning my card's quality settings down to minimal - guess what? 72fps. Charming.

Then again, that's the same sort of framerate Warcraft III and UT2K3 run at, even when things are getting busy! My monitor is currently refreshing at 70hz, so perhaps there's a correlation there. I don't know, really - providing it goes fast enough, I don't mind.

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spooky
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Posted: 19th Jul 2003 04:44
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I also tested new 5 car version on my desktop pc and get 295 fps

AMD Athlon XP 2000+
512MB
MSI GeForce4 Ti4600 (128MB)
XP Home SP1

R Tape loading error
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HZence
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Posted: 19th Jul 2003 05:58 Edited at: 19th Jul 2003 11:27
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I'm beginning to think that maybe the processor type as well as amount of RAM have something to do with it. If that's the case, then Athlons blow Pentium out of the water.

Another issue we haven't considered is motherboards. Mine is a crappy OEM Dell.

SW Games - www.freewebs.com/swgames

Yeah, I know, I only have one game. Yeah, I know it sucks. But I made it! Me!
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Ashlocke
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Posted: 19th Jul 2003 07:32 Edited at: 19th Jul 2003 10:13
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>.o About a minute into playing the demo, all the cars stopped and started flipping around on the ground like fish while on a semi-flat terrain. After about 45 seconds they 2 cars recovered and I was on my way again. =)

Cool demo though. =D It kept my busy while waiting for my downloads.

<=200 FPS
2.5ghz
512mb Ram
Ati 9700 pro

EDIT:
Whoops. ^^ I didnt read the first post - saw a demo and downloaded it. The cars were on a 'kinda'(1-2 *small* bumps) flat terrain section, but overall the whole terrain was massive cliffs. The car speed was slow, so they flapped on the ground slowly, when I increse the speed the cars flapped faster. Like they were trying to get up but kept hitting an invisible wall and backflipping. I figure this is a bug. ^^
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Dennuz666
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Posted: 19th Jul 2003 10:47
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1.2 Ghz AMD
512 Mb Mem
ATI All In Wonder 7500
WinXP

77 FPS, and it looks GREAT!!!!!

Do the physics work when you rotate the 'car' though?
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Fallout
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Posted: 19th Jul 2003 15:48
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Yeah, I can't figure out where this random invisible wall flipping bug is. It's not where I first thought it would be. The last place it could be is in my sliding collision function which is responsible for positioning the car above ground based on normals and weird maths. I dont know how I can fix it, because it doesnt seem to have anything wrong with it - it's the same algorithm for everything, but occasionally it doesnt quite put the car above ground properly, and makes it bounce about or think there's an invisible wall, or something. The only thing I can think of is number precision, but everything is a double float now. Been doing my head in for days, this bug.

Dennuz - the physics are based on two point, so it works in a 3D world (ie yep, you can rotate on any axis) but it wont register rotations on the objects z-axis because of this. I'm waiting for the zrotate object bug to be fixed before I go out and do a fully 3D proggy with the physics.

Machine: P4 2200, 1GB RAM, GeForce4 64MB, Audigy Platinum
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Mussi
23
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Joined: 27th Jan 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posted: 19th Jul 2003 17:46
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GREAT PHYSICS, i get a fps of 260, see my specs in my signature

Specs: AMD Athlon 1800, 256 DDRRam 266mhz, 10GB HD, Geforce 4 Ti4400 128mb ddr sdram
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kevinthekangaroo
23
Years of Service
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Joined: 4th Jun 2003
Location:
Posted: 19th Jul 2003 18:51
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75fps with 1.4AMD+3DBlasterMX420

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HartZa
23
Years of Service
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Joined: 5th Jun 2003
Location:
Posted: 19th Jul 2003 23:12
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Athlon XP 2600+ 2088mhz, clocked from 2100+ 1,677mhz
512mb DDR
GeForce 4 ti 4200 128mb
WinXP Pro

I tested this with different graphics settings:
Without AA: 300FPS (ALMOST lightspeed!)
2X AA: 180FPS
4X AA: 110FPS
4X AA & 8xAnisotrophic: 100FPS

Nice looking demo you have here!

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Trowbee
23
Years of Service
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Joined: 12th Apr 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 20th Jul 2003 04:49
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System spec:
2.1GHz Athlon XP
1GB DDR RAM
GeForce 4200Ti (128MB DDR)

And extensive testing...which was insanely dull:
215fps - 800 x 600
210fps - 1024 x 768
170fps - 1152 x 864
170fps - 1280 x 720
180fps - 1280 x 768
175fps - 1280 x 960
164fps - 1280 x 1024
170fps - 1360 x 768
158fps - 1600 x 900
142fps - 1600 x 1024
137fps - 1600 x 1200
137fps - 1920 x 1080
125fps - 1920 x 1200
107fps - 1920 x 1440
100fps - 2048 x 1536
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