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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Is this possible (a world question?)

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Megaman Zero
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Posted: 17th Jul 2003 16:01 Edited at: 18th Jul 2003 00:38
Ok, lets say I have this idea for a world that I got from a game for the GC. Lets say I want to do the same kind of scenery in DBPro, but I am not sure if DBPro can handel it, can someone give me some advice on weather or not it can be done, & which way to do it (make a model worlds, a matrix or 2, etc.)

Ok, ill link to my pics now, one link to test ou the image tags, & another to a url...








Now for the links...
http://www.angelfire.com/games4/heero_yuy1983/forrest1.JPG
http://www.angelfire.com/games4/heero_yuy1983/forrest2.JPG
http://www.angelfire.com/games4/heero_yuy1983/forrest3.JPG
http://www.angelfire.com/games4/heero_yuy1983/seeshore1.JPG
http://www.angelfire.com/games4/heero_yuy1983/seeshore2.JPG
http://www.angelfire.com/games4/heero_yuy1983/seeshore3.JPG

Sorry for the big pics, its 7:00 am & I didnt sleep last night, so I couldnt edit them more.

Thanks,

IanM
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Posted: 17th Jul 2003 20:01
Can't see the pics, or get the links
ReD_eYe
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Posted: 17th Jul 2003 20:03
pics work fine for me, although 4th link is just plain text(not blue) they are quite detailed and i haven't seen anything like it in db but i think it could be done, it would have to be a combination of models, matrixes though i think.

You know whats weird???
Donald duck never wore pants, yet everything time he got out of the shower he put a towel around his waist...
Whats with that???
Megaman Zero
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 00:43
@ IanM
Try copying & pasting the link into a browser window, I can see it though.

@ Red Eye
How do I use a matrix along with models or world files? I mean, how do I load it so its just right. I am considering using a few heightmaps along with another model for the water, but I really dont know how to make a heightmap that well, does anyone know of a tutorial?

The Third picture from the last is the one I want my terrain to look most like, but it will be hard to get it right. I guess I now get to go work with models for a while to try & get similar results.

One last question, how do I make my model transparet, & give it the water ripple effect as seen in most of the pictures? I am wanting to use MS3D, but im not sure how to start on the models or how to get the water to look like that (basicaly clear water, with a tinted color that fades with the water.

Thx,

MrTAToad
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 01:03
I dont see why DBPro cant handle the graphics - especially on the more advanced cards.

How about dropping the Manga influence though for the graphic at the bottom right of the screens - whilst it may make Raven happy, it looks very much out of place.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins and other exciting things - oh my, yes!
IanM
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 01:25
Nope. I still the the 'Page is unavailable...' no matter what I do.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 01:33
you must a firewall up Ian cause they're showing fine

creating that would be a case of Matricies & Static models, however you'll never get the same level or detail and beauty from them i'm afriad no matter how good your texture artist is. Some things on the GC are just out of DBP's reach without Shaders (and they're not too reliable right now)

however my GeoTerra is capable of that level of detail.
seeing that raises a good point though, because currently it doesn't deal with overhangs so you'd have to model that yourself (overhangs being enclosed model areas)

perhaps once i'm finished with GeoTerrain i might be pursuaded to make an alternative format to BSP ... as it is a pretty old fomat now and past its time with such huge worlds.
so i could look for suggestions.

as i said right now your best bet is Matricies and Models that are loaded as a single format - but in a few weeks hopefully you'll have a far far better option

IanM
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 01:48
Sod it. I give up.

It's not my firewall - it still doesn't work when I disable it.
I use my host file for blocking ads - it's not that.

I can ping the hosting site, I just can't get HTML traffic
MrTAToad
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 01:51
Your missing some very nice graphics, then, Ian.
Bit too Manga-ishy for my liking, but there you go...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins and other exciting things - oh my, yes!
IanM
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 01:53
Yeah, thanks mate. Why not rub it in?
MrTAToad
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 01:56 Edited at: 18th Jul 2003 01:56
Okay... If you like...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins and other exciting things - oh my, yes!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 02:03
maybe you can view from my ftp ian






Megaman Zero
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 07:25 Edited at: 18th Jul 2003 07:29
Yeah, those screenshots are from Phantasy Star Online for the GC, Eppisode 2. I want similar terrain, but I dont know how the best way to go about making it is, anyone? And Raven, how long till your geoterra be completed?

Oh, & BTW, the manga graphics at the bottom are not in the game PSO, those are screenshots taken with a japanese tool & they are added manualy by PSO World.

Thx,

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 07:30
yeah i know they are... i have it... best damn'd GC game there is imho

the simplest way to achieve that kinda terrain is through a model in max or softimage as they have some awesome tools for it, but making a heightmap in a proggie like Texture Maker then using that to set the height of your matrix would be good too.

Geoterra is planned for release over the next month. don't know an exact date - i'd hate to set one then find a fatal problem like i did the other day which could set back what i promise.
but you'll have some screenshots of its capabilities soon as i get more and more used to creating the textures (my 2d art skills still suck but with chiQs help i'm getting better all the time)

Megaman Zero
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 16:38
Yeah, PSO is the best game out for the PS2, & I belive one of the best games every created. It is supposed to rank right up there with EQ & Morrowind. I hear they are planning a PC port, but its not going to be as good as the GC or XBox version.

If you have an XBox, dont buy this game unless you have XBox live, it wont run. If you play the GC version, you may want to buy either an import keyboard, or some kind of a USB adapter for one of you USB keyboards, so you can type in things & talk to players online.

I still need to try online mode, but I hear there is a big risk involved to play online, a server crash can me one of 3 things...

1. You loose the data from the last point you saved
2. You loose all of your items on your player
3. You loose all data on the character you were playing online (full character delete.)

I also hear that there are some hackers who have the ability to delete your characters.

But yeah, ill give that 3DS Max thing a try, what is soft image exactly, & how would I do the water part? Should I make 2 models, one of the solid walk on map, & another that would be the model?

And I may come back & ask some questions after I have the model made (like particle effects for variouse things,) how to do collision on a .x model, how to make my max water model invisible, so it looks like that water, how to do that kind of waterfall, & how to get the co-ordinates of the world, so I can set the player spawn point.

Thx,

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th Jul 2003 20:18
you know thats actually a very interesting idea... making one model for the collision then another for the visual

Softimage is just another 3d package, pretty good if you cna understand it.
watefalls i'd do with plains, say a selection of 8 along where the water would fall and you place them woven so kind like



and then you have each one billboard towards the player with a water texture falling down. just some simple smoke (but less dense) particles at the bottom to simulate the mist.

the puddle water i'd probably produce with making a matrix, but like an object matrix in a memblock (there is code for it in the snippets) and then edit it like a matrix witha wave physics, against there is something in the snippets for it... but you can have a texture with sphere mapping which looks pretty nice.

the ocean could probably have something similar but with slightly different physics.

oh and remember that when you export from Max, you can use the helper/dummies as invisible object ... so they make good tags for things. (suchas spawn points and entities)
unforunately DBP only accepts upto 256 limbs, so you have to setup the level kinda defensively like that.

IanM
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Posted: 19th Jul 2003 00:11
Cheers raven. Good looking game!

From what I hear, most of the water and mist effects could be achieved using shaders, although that would be a bit difficult with the current level of shader support in DBPro.

As for the terrain, I'd use a heightmap for most of it, and generate the overhangs and cave entrances etc using static objects (I'm assuming that the second pic shows a cave with a force-field in front of it).

I see what MrTAToad means about the consoles - they do tend to detract from the feel of the rest of what is shown - too hard edged and intrusive.
Rob K
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Posted: 19th Jul 2003 00:35
Quote: "although that would be a bit difficult with the current level of shader support in DBPro."


P5 Ian?

IanM
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Posted: 19th Jul 2003 00:36
NDA Rob
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 19th Jul 2003 01:07
most shader effects can be recreated normally... atleast those you see in current games. Alot of people just don't know howto use them which is kinda sad really.
So you get alot of effects that are pretty simple to achieve normal.

PerPixelLighting for example, i've got a working example working in realtime now in DBP on my laptop @ 80fps without any shaders. And certainly makes my dragon look awesome
not sure how much processing power will be needed with the tech demo once i've finished though - but i've also been using the back buffer to some good effect to make it appear like there is a halo of light around the light parts of the model... so like really bight area's kinda glow.

hard to explain but there will be a few screenies of my T-Rex doing it soon, i gives the impression of Volumetric light when there isn't any though

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