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Music & Sound FX / Driven, my new intense electronica piece

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Matt McFarland
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Posted: 24th Aug 2008 08:44 Edited at: 24th Aug 2008 08:55
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Hello!

I've just completed a track that I'm very proud of, if you like electronic music and want something like that in your game this song is free to use. I'd also like to get any feedback if possible from other composers! The song was written in FL and was mastered with Stereo Enhancements, Compression and Limiting. Personally I think it's my best piece.

From my own description of the song:
The song takes you on a trip, and so the title "Driven" has come from the very feeling I get from it. I get the feeling as though I'm being chased, either by time itself or something very, very scary. It has somewhat of a dark sound, while at the same time triumphant, as if it is pushing for an unsure protagonist.

Please listen to it over here [mattmcfarland.com] and if you could, please rate the song at my site!

Thanks!


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Jeku
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Posted: 25th Aug 2008 09:46 Edited at: 25th Aug 2008 09:47
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This is soooo good, I love it. The name is very fitting--- like it would go good with a racing game like Wipeout! I would kill to have these FL Studio and Reason skills


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Choinkees
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Posted: 25th Aug 2008 15:29
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I like it - decent tune, clean samples, nice pace, and really well mixed/balanced/produced. The only negative thing I can think of is that it needed a fatter bass (either the current bassline synth or a second fat bass underneath. drums were fine, bass synth needed more depth) to help punch out the beat a bit more.

That's pretty much the only bit that left me wanting more, and I reckon that's simply because the rest of the track was so good, it made me want more thump out of it.

games and stuff that I've made: www.rickyvuckovic.com
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Matt McFarland
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Posted: 25th Aug 2008 16:14
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Thanks alot guys Maybe I'll do a remix sometime with some fatter bass? Only time will tell!


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Lucifer
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Posted: 25th Aug 2008 17:01
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The song is good, but did you only use presets in the song? i hear alot of synth sounds that sound like some sytrus presets.

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Matt McFarland
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Posted: 25th Aug 2008 17:52
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Yep, all my songs use the presets, I am more into writing the melodies and composing the songs then I am into making custom sounds. I have played with Sytrus before and it is indeed a powerful sampler! Right now, to be honest, I am fully focused on writing music, making sounds is not my forte. Thanks for asking.


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Jeku
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Posted: 26th Aug 2008 00:03
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Yah that's my focus as well--- it's much more fun focusing on melody and composition than modifying/creating new sounds.


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Lucifer
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Posted: 26th Aug 2008 01:03 Edited at: 26th Aug 2008 01:09
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I disagree, there's so much fun in making your own sounds and presets.

And if you always rely on presets, you'll one day get stuck, you're looking for a certain sound but no preset has that sound, what will you do since you've never bothered to look into how the synth works or anything?

I doubt many people who pay 179$ for a synth such as sytrus never use it for other than the presets.

You should realise that people generally can hear if a song has been made in flstudio, and what you want to avoid is exactly that if you want to impress someone, not that i'm saying fl is bad or anything, the Fl sound, from what i've heard and seen is generally looked at as "noob" sound, and what the so called "noob" sound is defined as is The sound and feel of a song EVERYONE can make. But once you ditch the stock samples, start using either maximus or multiband compressor or something alike to mix and master your songs and start making your own sounds you'll jump out of the "fl sound" group and people will think more of your songs, since they can hear there's more effort being put into it than most fl songs, and of course it's 80% more original that most other flstudio songs, and that's what it is really i think, being original and not like everyone else.. But hey, what do i know, i've only been using this program for 4-5 years...

If anyone wants to discuss this further please do, i'm always open for a music debate

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Grandma
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Posted: 26th Aug 2008 01:27
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But some people don't care if their music sounds original or not, It's not about that. They just want it to sound good, for them, not to please others.

I'm on the so-called middle ground, I do make my own sounds from time to time, but there's so many presets to chose from, I have no need to make much. At least not yet.

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Jeku
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Posted: 26th Aug 2008 01:28 Edited at: 26th Aug 2008 01:29
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@Lucifer - You raise some good points--- I guess I've never really been good at detecting a song was made with a certain piece of software, aside from the rise in "Reason" sounding songs.

In the end I still get more enjoyment from composing, and would rather avoid messing around with sounds and mixing. Perhaps that's why I need to team up with someone who is good at the more technical stuff


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Lucifer
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Posted: 26th Aug 2008 02:17 Edited at: 26th Aug 2008 02:54
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Quote: "They just want it to sound good, for them, not to please others."


Oh but it's not only that, i realised, after i started working hard on each of my songs that the feeling of ownership was so much more, and if i got positive comments about something in the song it feels so much better since you know this was something you made from scratch. Also (for me) there's much much more pleasure working extra hard on songs, getting exactly the sound i want and stuff, so much more fun.

Jeku, I've seen alot of "teams" out there who produce great music and it always seems to have more depth than other songs so if you're going to look into that in the future i'm sure alot of people would be happy to work with you, but i really do think it's a good idea to develop an ear for good synth sounds, and that's exactly what you'll learn if you start playing around with synths. I probably should have mentioned this earlier, but if you have the freedom to make every sound you ever need you start learning what might fit better here and there in songs, and it also helps being able to fine tune your sound to fit your song.

And mixing, you just have to learn at least some of that! that's a must Mixing your songs to your liking helps define your sound from everyone else's. Even if you do pair up with someone to make music, i think you need to know a little mixing and mastering just to be able to hear what might be better, and what could be fixed and stuff. If you dont already that is ...

And since i'm trying to convince you i'll upload a little example (not a good song or anything just an example.. thing..)
of how mixing and mastering can have big effects on a song, and change the sound of it drasticly.

But like i always say to my friends when teaching them something about recording or composing, do what you feel works for you, i'm only telling you what i've learned myself and if you've got a system that works for you, then that's great, dont take me to seriously

Edit: oops sorry for hijacking this post, i totally forgot myself and uploaded the example song, please dont discuss that song further so we're not offending the topic's creator

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Matt McFarland
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Posted: 26th Aug 2008 15:47 Edited at: 26th Aug 2008 18:59
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I have no beef against using sytrus to it's full advantage, not at all. IF I write a song that gets a lot of positive reviews (such as driven), then obviously using a preset isn't a bad thing at all. I carefully mix/mastered my song btw, used effects such as Stereo Enhancement; Compression, Limiting, Parametric EQ, and aside from Mix/Mastering I did modify the "canned samples" using FL's built in Arp's, and sliders with different time settings, etc. I know to the trained ear my song sounds like it was made with FL, but I don't see how at all that makes the song bad. I personally don't rate a song by how I can tell it was made, most people dont either.

And Lucifer: Do not confuse the masses by putting the art of mix/mastering and the art of sound sample generation in the same category, because they are two completely separate procedures. The principal of Mix/Mastering is making sure instruments are at their correct volumes and the sound is rich, while sound sampling has more to do with generating instrumentation. Both use different methods and one can be highly skilled in one or the other, or both. I myself, am much more trained in Mastering than Sampling.

EDIT: Shortened the post, it was way too long and I took out the initial inflammatory response.


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Lucifer
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Posted: 26th Aug 2008 19:27 Edited at: 26th Aug 2008 19:27
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Quote: "Do not confuse the masses by putting the art of mix/mastering and the art of sound sample generation"


i do not, i was pointing out to jeku that it's good to be good at both. I do not confuse the two. But i dont think that they're all so different, there's alot of mixing that goes on when using synths to create sounds.

I'm bored with this topic now, i'm not going to debate this anymore. You do what you feel works for you, and i'll do what i do, noone has the oppinion about anything

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Matt McFarland
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Posted: 26th Aug 2008 20:49 Edited at: 26th Aug 2008 21:38
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I know you particularly don't want to talk about this, but I do, and I think our audience deserves a good breakdown as to what the difference between sampling and mixing is. I think it's important to recognize they are different. VERY different. This is not "opinion" but indeed tried and true methods taught in various schools (broadcasting/producing/live recording) and is indeed the sole reason why the Mixer was invented in the first place. The Mixer and the arts behind it were invented prior to the Sampler. The sampler is a completely different animal.

Sampling is only required in certain genres of music(like Techno for example) and Mix/Mastering is a technique used for ALL types of music. There is a big difference when considering that way. Mixing is good for live music, acoustics, concert music, rock, pop, jazz, blues, etc. Sampling is NOT. In that respect, I find Mixing to take precedence. I am actually taking private lessons from a professional producer(we're using Adobe Audition and physical equipment), and he is teaching me a lot about mixing, and I have learned and am still learning mixing and sampling are wayyyy different. Using both instruments (mixer/sampler) the same way is a roadblock that I have recently overturned. One should understand how to use them both as they were designed.

A mixer itself is definitely not a sampler and while one can make neat sound effects with it; if you don't understand the importance of compression, limiting, stereo analysis, then you can't produce like the pro's. All professional producers in all types of music (Music styles that don't use samplers for example) use Mixers to create a rich sound all across the board. This is where the term Mastering comes from. Once the song is completely mixed down it is Mastered.

I suppose this is why I got all nitpicky in the first place when Lucifer went on about mixing when initially he critiqued my song for using a Sampler /Preset. I used the Sampler to generate the noise I wanted (presets yes but nonetheless) and used the Mixer to mix my music down professionally. The amount of effort I put into mixing the song down was bar-none my most, partially because I have learned a lot about Mixing recently.

This is important for someone like Jeku to recognize. One can use presets and prefab samples and make an amazing song if using the Mixer properly. The Sampler itself is nothing more than a tool to make custom noise. I personally don't feel the need to make custom noises, but can use instruments and already made noises to create my songs, much like a band uses already made guitars and drums.

Furthermore presets aren't evil. A drum-kit itself is a "preset", a Bass Guitar itself is a "preset", as instruments are instruments and there is no need to reinvent the wheel. It's much more important to be able to write the melody then it is to make the noise. And it is by far more important to have the knowledge and understanding of Mixing and Music Theory then it is to understand and know how to make a unique noise with a sampler. Most of the best noises have already been made anyway, and they're presets.


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Grandma
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Posted: 27th Aug 2008 02:48
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Quote: "Oh but it's not only that, i realised, after i started working hard on each of my songs that the feeling of ownership was so much more, and if i got positive comments about something in the song it feels so much better since you know this was something you made from scratch. Also (for me) there's much much more pleasure working extra hard on songs, getting exactly the sound i want and stuff, so much more fun."

I can understand that. I've started on one like that now. I'll see how it turns out. Or maybe I should listen, that will probably be the best way to determine the quality of a song. Actually, I have like 36 unfinished songs. I'll get to them eventually.

I get a new idea, and I move on...

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Jeku
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Posted: 27th Aug 2008 03:32
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Ditto-- I have so many songs that are about a minute long, and I can't end them. Maybe I have a future in scoring car commercials?


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Matt McFarland
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Posted: 27th Aug 2008 16:26
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I do that too! I have a lot of single "patterns" that I think sound cool but can't seem to do anything else with. It's at those times I wish I had someone to work with, see if they could do anything with it where I can't.

I had a good friend who used to make lots of patterns too, we used to use Impulse Tracker, Scream Tracker 3, and now Mod Plug. I can still make beats with Mod Plug Tracker but he never really wanted to learn FL. He moved for away now. But we used to make beats and then see if the other could do anything with the stuff we were stuck on. We ended up making some really interesting songs in the long run.


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Choinkees
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Posted: 27th Aug 2008 16:33
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Sounds like I've got company. I haven't bothered to learn FL yet.. haven't had a real need for it I guess.

I'm still on MadTracker and quite enjoying it (FastTracker II before that, then ProTracker on the Amiga) - many hundreds of unfinished songs
The good ones usually get finished though

games and stuff that I've made: www.rickyvuckovic.com
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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 18:03 Edited at: 28th Aug 2008 18:04
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Oh yah I used to use an old DOS app called ModEdit at about '92 or '93 until about '99 or so when I used ModPlug tracker. I still have those MODs kicking around somewhere--- did you know they play in WinAmp?


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NGXmusical
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Posted: 28th Aug 2008 20:20
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nice techno.

I also use FLstudio and I can see a lot of work went into it.
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draknir_
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Posted: 30th Aug 2008 15:00
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fantastic piece i love it.
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Rudolpho
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Posted: 31st Aug 2008 18:54
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I shall say that this isn't really my genre, but that's some pretty cool sounds you've got there (a tip for you: you should make a surround version of this that utilises some panning. Or at least some stereo panner. Would really add to the feel of it )
Maybe you should experiment with some other waveforms here and there, the saw is outvoicing the other elements most of the time (which I'm not saying is bad, but it's just such a standard sound. Try making some spacey, screaming triangle-based leads mayhap )
Also (just my opinion), I think that you should end this with a lower tone; the switch to the high discant in the ending chord struck me as rather odd.

But hey, this was a really cool song (listening to it from my 7-channel setup )

"I kören hörs de brummande busarna Björnligan och Gondolen"
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Matt McFarland
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2008 17:25
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Hey Rudolpho, I agree with your suggestions. I did use a lot of stereo panning, more enhancing, but refrained frmo using absolute panning (putting sounds into full left or right) it's more of a mix, but I figured it would be richer that way. I do believe more effort in panning could create better results (or worse) but it's something I decided I was finished with, so yeah :p

As far as the switch to the high sicant in the ending, I do believe I felt the same way, and I think I could have an outtro that would give the song a better ending too!

Pretty much though, I'm done with the song, on to the next. Although the criticism received can do well in future productions of other songs.

I was planning on releasing a new song this week, but because of life circumstances(two words: bed bugs) I have been "out of the game" and super busy with extermination. Removing those nasty critters takes an amazing amount of work. You have to be extremely thorough, and persistant. It's something I wouldn't want to wish on anybody. I really hope they're all gone, haven't seen any since. Pretty much spent the entire week heating/ bagging/ trashing/ tearing apart all furniture, fixtures, etc and after Terminix left I still have quite a bit of "unpacking" to do. It's kinda like moving, only worse. Mix that in with my 60 hour work week (I work two jobs) and there ya go.. ugh..


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Inspire
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Posted: 6th Sep 2008 07:48
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Wow...this might sound way ignorant, but I didn't think those really happened in people's houses. How do they show up?
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Matt McFarland
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Posted: 10th Sep 2008 17:23
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well you can get tyhem by picking up used furniture off the street (which I will never do, never did) ; uhh, you can get them if you live in a multi-unit dwelling and one of the other tenants get them. You can get them from taking the bus or going to the movies, etc. I got them from my neighbors, they leave their bed bug infested furniture right next to my house. I've fortified my home and did all necessary stuff to remove an infestation.

They are lil vampire bugs that suck your blood at night. They leave bite marks, they multiply like rabbits, they are the hardest insect to remove from your house. Worse than lice or cockroaches.

I've had to put everything in my dryer, seal it up in a plastic bag. I live out of plastic bags now. Everything has to be torn inside out (all furntiure etc)

It's a ton of work. But I think they're all gone now, I hope they dont reappear.

If you google "bed bug" you will get a ton of info. A bed bug epidemic has swept all major US cities, and the highest infestation is in NYC. I live in Cincinnati which I belive is #2 most infested city.

Bed bugs were nothing but a myth from 1950 to the late 1990s where the resurgence began in hotels. Nobody knows why they have made such a huge comeback, and every year their numbers more than double. A simple google of "bed bugs" especially through news articles will show you how bad this is getting. Some people think its the outlawing of DDT that cause them to return, others cite the increase of internatinoal travel, some say its a mix of both. Either way, they are reinfesting the globe with no sign at all of them leaving any time soon; that I know for sure.


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