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3 Dimensional Chat / Final Projects- Sci-Fi Gun & Fantasy Tavern

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John H
Retired Moderator
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Location: Burlington, VT
Posted: 22nd Dec 2008 11:55
http://www.iamjohnhall.com/3d/adv/final/browser.html

First off, a couple pieces of art. A futuristic gun and a fantasy Tavern, both of which are intended for use in next-gen engines. The house was constructed to be used as part of a construction set, I presented it in the Unreal engine in a couple different forms, unfortunately I didn't FRAPS it or grab any screenies :\ Either way, it can be built into a different type of house, although I might change this so I could make the entire thing look better (contact shadows, etc.)

Very image intensive, thumbnails are just re-sized 1024*768 JPG's, so... ye be warned! Turntables are all roughly 5mg .mov files that can be downloaded and looped. Assorted renders in Mental Ray, Maya Hardware and Maya Vector. I'm slowly re-doing all of the renders with a more neutral background and different style turntables.

Got a few critiques from the final review, but was wondering what other input I could gather.

3D Game Art & Animation Major @ Champlain.edu
Maya | Photoshop | CrazyBump | ZBrush
WoW US Shattered Hand - http://www.paroxguild.com/
Alucard94
17
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Joined: 9th Jul 2007
Location: Stockholm, Sweden.
Posted: 22nd Dec 2008 12:45
Superb work John! Haven't seen you around for a while so it's good to see some new work from you.


Alucard94, the member of the future of the past.
dark coder
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Joined: 6th Oct 2002
Location: Japan
Posted: 22nd Dec 2008 13:52
My critique based on the premise of this being for a next-gen game, the gun:

• First off it looks like the texture is quite low res, despite it being 2048^2, perhaps certain areas could have shared texture space as there isn't a lot of stuff that can't be mirrored(i.e. text). This is especially important in key areas you'd likely see most of the time during a typical idle stance in an FPS, as shown in this pic, areas such as behind the scope mount could be better/more precisely detailed.

• The 2nd thing I noticed was the rivets, looking at the diffuse texture they are just copies of each other, they just don't look right, maybe if the surrounding metal indented slightly or there was some variation between the rivets it would look better? If you look at a lot of modern guns, even ones primarily constructed from metal they often don't have anywhere near as many rivets as are present in your gun, even when they do(well usually screws) they look to fit better with the weapon frame as to not snag on the user's clothing and such. Also as you have a normal map these rivets shouldn't really be shaded else it'll look a bit incorrect in certain lighting conditions.

• The scratches seem to have been placed on the map without looking at the 3D model. As linked to earlier, in this render at the back of the scope mount where the wire leads into the metal, why are there scratches present under this? It's highly unlikely such a place would get scratched, much less heavily scratched. Similarly the muzzle is completely covered in scratches yet most of it is covered in a metal frame as shown here, I'm sure it's possible for these areas to get scratched but it's not really likely.

• The hand guard? If you look in this pic you can clearly see the hand guard is covered in bullet holes, rather small bullet holes at that, it seems quite unlikely that guard would get hit so many times, especially when larger structures of the weapon(thus easier targets) lack bullet holes, and this isn't just from the front, the sides of the guard have holes in them too.

• Why does the scope get smaller toward the end? Unless it's fitted with some rather large targeting computer it seems illogical. Ideally you'd want the lens(at the end) to be the largest part of the scope to collect as much light as possible, there's little reason why you'd need a small lens and some giant scope that does very little. besides it doesn't appear to be a long range weapon, and after it's taken so much damage I doubt it'd be of any use as one so fitting it with a smaller and more tactical scope would be more logical.

• The screen/display, why would you need a display similar to the size you'd see on a PDA to merely tell you that the gun is online and that you have some ammo? If you really need an ammo display then all you'd need is a 2 digit readout which would be quite small and if it were offline then the light could just turn off, after all it can't count ammo if it's broken. And as everything else on this weapon's been thrown off a cliff why hasn't the screen broken?

• The wires, what's with the over elaborate wire placement around the gun? I could understand a battery pack located in the back requiring a wire leading to a non-standard scope, but this wouldn't go in and out of the gun several times, plus it would be securely fastened to the gun's frame at multiple points to prevent snagging and potentially rendering the weapon useless in a combat situation. Besides as the wires go through the weapon and don't appear to be some third-party non-standard add-on why don't the wires just go through the gun to prevent such issues?

• The grip/trigger, I'd expect a multiple finger trigger from an RPG Launcher but not what looks to be an SMG/rifle/bullpup that fires radioactive ammo. Where would you place your hand? Of course because you have a fixed shoulder rest and forward grip you don't need a right hand grip as such, but it would really help to stabilize the weapon.

• This isn't really easily noticeable in the renders, but when looking at the diffuse texture you can easily see repeating brushes. If you look toward the right side of the centre of the texture you can see some light-ish grey scratches and that they were made with a single brush setting multiple times, maybe if they were set to auto-rotate it'd be harder to notice.

Anyway I couldn't find that many good pics of the UT3 weapons with a quick search but here's a nice FPS pose of one here. You can see that the model itself looks quite clean but it still has chipped paint.

The house:

• It still looks a little low res, especially if it were in a game like Oblivion or UT3 etc, because it's a building you could have made use of multiple texture layers. I.e. having the predictable and repeating brick texture as a separate layer on all the walls and just box mapped or something simple, then having the more complex layers of dirt and grime over the top, after all multiple texture layers have been used in games, especially for architecture for ages.

• The barrels look like they were derived from a lower resolution texture and stretched onto the current map, you can clearly see filtering from a lower res texture to its current scale so that has potential to have greater detail.

• Small issue, the wood beam thing is intersecting the red roof here.

• Could use more detail, this would be nice for a 2nd LOD level but for a next-gen game unless this was an RTS you'd expect more mesh detail. For instance you could have been more adventurous with the tiling, as I'd imagine not all tiled rooves of this sort are perfectly arranged, or stay that way after a while; if you modelled in some lose tiles slightly perturbing from the edge it would look much better.

• Similarly the wood could have been less rectangle like, not all beams of that size are perfect and are often slightly irregular in their thickness.

• The red awning looks like it's made from sheet metal and not what's most likely plastic or some type of fabric, make it sag more in-between the points where the poles attach to it.

• Could have maybe even had an interior with transparent windows if it was for a next-gen game, unless this just some misc prop.

Anyway I can probably think of more but I have things to do. Good work on the models though, I do like them despite what I said, they are just what I believe to be issues that should be addressed before you could call them next-gen.

John H
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2008 14:13 Edited at: 22nd Dec 2008 14:15
Alucard - Thanks Just doing college stuff and web work to make some cash.

Dear God DC - Hi and how have you been, thanks for the critique

With the gun, I'll be honest, this is the first gun I've done and I have ZERO knowledge of the construction basics of a gun (and yes, I know google.com would fix that, and I was foolish not to do my homework before going willy-nilly on the thing), besides the fact that there needed to be some rivets and stuff! The scratches were all done rather haphazardly... err.. carelessly I guess would be a better word. The holes on the trigger guard are actually rivets, I don't think there is a close enough render to show though. The renders themselves... I'm not exactly a mental-ray pro, I tend to click production, change the filter to Lanczos, hit the render button and see how things go, could explain the terrible quality

Most of the issues with the gun can be answered with "I just did it because I could". Heh Scope, yeah thought it would look cool. LCD monitor? Wanted to have a glow map, for no real reason. You should have seen how much glowy stuff I had on it previously, it looked like a damned Christmas tree But yeah, overall I'd call the gun a failure, but hey, first approach at a gun, I wasn't -too- displeased with it. I was however, quite ready to call it done, as is probably rather apparent. When I do eventually revisit it, its not going to be a "quick touch ups" type of thing. Going to require a complete re-haul, more than likely a complete remodeling, because well, most of it just doesnt make s*** for sense!

House - yes the barrel was stretched from an old UV I did a year ago, was going to make a new one but said whatever and moved on Blurriness can probably also be explained with my low knowledge of MR settings. Didnt even notice the board sticking through the red roof, nor did anyone else - good eyes!

The windows on the house, are total failure. I need to redo them completely. I want the tavern to feel very welcoming, which I suppose the warm colors help move towards, but then you have these dark abysmal windows that don't match anything at all! The slightly different hues on the bricks on the edge of the building I've decided to remove after mixed reviews. Good points with the awning and wood. I'm thinking of removing the entire concept of this house being modular, and just painting in contact shadows and adding in some more sensible and interesting geometry to make the piece a bit stronger overall.

Thanks for your time, appreciate it

3D Game Art & Animation Major @ Champlain.edu
Maya | Photoshop | CrazyBump | ZBrush
WoW US Shattered Hand - http://www.paroxguild.com/
lazerus
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2008 17:18
simply amazing, i love the videos aswell,

cheers cb

Inspire
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Location: Rochester, NY
Posted: 23rd Dec 2008 18:10
Looks nice.

The tavern reminds me of a picture of the Green Dragon Inn from the Hobbit (my book came with illustrations).
John H
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Posted: 24th Dec 2008 09:14
Sorry, still getting around to the re-renders... I really want to get a few beauty shots... of the tavern especially (gun is meh ). Holidays have been keeping me busy and well.... put in so much time before coming home, really haven't bothered to open Maya since Been working on my website along with some freelance work, but I'll definitely be getting around to redoing the renders one day when I'm incredibly bored, at which point I'll update you all here. Until then... any more changes for the second round of rendering are more than welcome... they are encouraged!

3D Game Art & Animation Major @ Champlain.edu
Maya | Photoshop | CrazyBump | ZBrush
WoW US Shattered Hand - http://www.paroxguild.com/
Alucard94
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Joined: 9th Jul 2007
Location: Stockholm, Sweden.
Posted: 24th Dec 2008 11:10
Quote: "Holidays have been keeping me busy and well.... put in so much time before coming home, really haven't bothered to open Maya since"

I hear that! I haven't gotten any time these past few days to work on anything.


Alucard94, the member of the future of the past.
Sushi01
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Location: Houston, Texas
Posted: 24th Dec 2008 17:38
Yo dude your texturing skills are nice. Good Work
John H
Retired Moderator
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Location: Burlington, VT
Posted: 25th Dec 2008 09:06
Thanks Next project is a bust in ZBrush... I think we'll be doing 4.. maybe 5 layers... so my next thread will probably be pure geometry crit. Happy holidays all!

3D Game Art & Animation Major @ Champlain.edu
Maya | Photoshop | CrazyBump | ZBrush
WoW US Shattered Hand - http://www.paroxguild.com/

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