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FPSC Classic Product Chat / First Ragdoll in FPSC

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Slayer93
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Posted: 11th Jan 2009 22:46
Well I was a bit bored so I decided to try out ragdoll in FPSC. Even made a video but the quality isn't to great to make it a small file size so you can see ragdoll in almost all its greatness.

There are plenty of problems with it though, simply because I haven't toyed around with the source long enough to fully implement it, meaning its pretty much useless however it does look cool. Besides that I can now say I was the first to implement Ragdoll in FPSC.

I also didn't try to implement motors or constraints into the ragdoll so the ragdoll isn't perfect either.

http://blog.teroton.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/fpscragdolltest.wmv

AaronG
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Posted: 11th Jan 2009 22:55 Edited at: 11th Jan 2009 23:02
Wow, I really like that. What defines each joints in the model and which ones to move? The friction is a little strong, they seem to be on ice.

I would love you for a how to and a source release, I'd even probably pay for such a thing.

dumpus
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Posted: 11th Jan 2009 23:02
If this is developed further, it could become quite useful. Nice job so far!

*This post will self-destruct in 10 seconds.*
crispex
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Posted: 11th Jan 2009 23:02
Very interesting. Nice work! Now if you could just try to apply that to models you would be good!

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X Games
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Posted: 11th Jan 2009 23:06
wow this looks promising
Crav3
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Posted: 11th Jan 2009 23:50 Edited at: 11th Jan 2009 23:55
I lol'd when U jumped on that guys crotch at the end.
Oh I think It would be better if the bodies stayed in the same position when they die because dead bodies dont usually slide along the floor but if u melee or shoot them they should move slightly.
crispex
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Posted: 12th Jan 2009 00:03
Quote: "dead bodies dont usually slide along the floor"


Umm...yes they do. Have you ever seen a dead person get kicked? They still move, it's not like when someone is dead they freeze up completely.

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Slayer93
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Posted: 12th Jan 2009 00:54
Quote: "Wow, I really like that. What defines each joints in the model and which ones to move? The friction is a little strong, they seem to be on ice.

I would love you for a how to and a source release, I'd even probably pay for such a thing."


The Head, Upper Arms and Legs are connected to the body by a ball joint and the lower Arms and Legs are connected to the upper arms and legs by a hinge joint. They move by themselves as I didn't apply any forces to them. The friction is something I didn't change and could be because of some of FPSC's settings.

I didn't modify much because it is not really implemented into FPSC just thrown in there.

Quote: "If this is developed further, it could become quite useful. Nice job so far!"


Not sure if I will develop it further unless I get rid of a few of my other projects. Really, one of my projects is to update the dbp wrapper that can do this and I need to update that to update this and modding FPSC to make this fully implemented would be a pain. Besides from what I hear Lee is going to implement Ragdoll in the migration, I just wanted to do it first.

Quote: "Oh I think It would be better if the bodies stayed in the same position when they die because dead bodies dont usually slide along the floor but if u melee or shoot them they should move slightly. "


There are a lot of things you need to do to stabilize ode, more than I care to do right now

Nomad Soul
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Posted: 12th Jan 2009 01:16
Great work and nice effects.

In Lee's presentation video shown on in the last TGC newsletter there's a slide saying new physics engine for FPSC which he doesn't give details about but hints at it.

Anyway nice tech.
X Games
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Posted: 12th Jan 2009 01:17
Quote: "The Head, Upper Arms and Legs are connected to the body by a ball joint and the lower Arms and Legs are connected to the upper arms and legs by a hinge joint. They move by themselves as I didn't apply any forces to them."


so this could not be applied to an existing model? Great idea thouh
Slayer93
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Posted: 12th Jan 2009 02:25
Quote: "In Lee's presentation video shown on in the last TGC newsletter there's a slide saying new physics engine for FPSC which he doesn't give details about but hints at it."


Don't remember seeing that but sounds interesting and might be redundant to continue this, if I were to continue.

Quote: "so this could not be applied to an existing model? Great idea thouh "


It could but it would take a lot of work. ODE itself isn't directly linked to objects but the wrapper makes them directly linked. So I could make a number of bodies and attach them to the limbs instead of objects which should deform the model. Of course there could be a number of issues and it would take a lot of work to even get that started, which is why I haven't done it yet. Although I am planning to implement that into the ODE wrapper soon.

Crav3
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Posted: 12th Jan 2009 02:48
Quote: "Umm...yes they do. Have you ever seen a dead person get kicked? They still move, it's not like when someone is dead they freeze up completely."

if u were to kick someone they wouldnt slide as if they were on ice they would proobably just flip over or something and in fpsc u cant kick, I mean when u walk over a dead body it should be still because that would be really annoying if u were playing a multiplyer game and dead bodies would get in the way. The dead bodies in the vid are too light, they need more weight.
crispex
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Posted: 12th Jan 2009 02:49
Actually, if you kick a dead body, depending on weight and material, it would slide.

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Pride
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Posted: 12th Jan 2009 03:04 Edited at: 12th Jan 2009 03:11
Oi whatever about the sliding of real bodies, geez.

That is breathtaking. I thought this thread was BS but I was pleasantly surprised. Man, I think I'd actually muster-up some cash for a tutorial on how to do this. But a free tutorial works just as well .

This is amazing and would very well like to see it expanded on. Hell if you made a tut and give me the right stuff I'd rig everything I could!

- You know you're curious
Slayer93
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Posted: 12th Jan 2009 03:17
It's a tech demo, a proof of concept if you will...I never said it was accurate besides there are a whole lot more I would have to implement to actually get it nice and accurate.

If you really want to see this implemented I'd try to bug your favorite modder to do it because like I said, I have a lot of projects and this was something I did when I was bored and because I wanted to be the first to implement ragdoll in FPSC.

Crav3
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Posted: 12th Jan 2009 05:55 Edited at: 12th Jan 2009 05:57
Well i've never kicked a dead body before so im not going to go any further.

anyway, Slayer93 I'd really like to see this implemented, If this must be just something you did when you were bored Lee must be really lazy with updating(not to be rude). So when can we expect a release? Oh and have you tried this with any character meshes yet?

Great work.
Slayer93
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Posted: 12th Jan 2009 06:11
Quote: "
anyway, Slayer93 I'd really like to see this implemented, If this must be just something you did when you were bored Lee must be really lazy with updating(not to be rude). So when can we expect a release? Oh and have you tried this with any character meshes yet?"


I wouldn't blame Lee. The only reason this was quick was because you can't interact with it except for moving into it. You can't shoot it or anything (it is not an entity). I'm also not sure if I am going to release it because you can't do anything with them. If I were to release it I would want it to be fully implemented and that would take a much longer time to do.

Besides that, it does take a bit to update the ODE wrapper to accomplish this which I did actually take time to do right and didn't do just because I was bored.

And for applying it to a mesh look a few posts up to see what it would take to do that.

Red Eye
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Posted: 12th Jan 2009 13:36
massive great, i like this really cool keep up the good work


Red Eye - The Game: Work In Progress - W.I.P.
Avenging Eagle
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Posted: 12th Jan 2009 18:52
Personally, I think the body would roll over if you kicked it, not slide.

AE

Dark Goblin
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Posted: 12th Jan 2009 19:20 Edited at: 12th Jan 2009 20:17
okay Slayer93 this is Mod Edit: no, no, no ^^ amazing.

Keep on working on this, because it is really great. Hope to see this on a few characters to see how it looks on them.

Keep on!

... efxMod Developer!
Zeldar
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 01:41
Only one song crossed my mind when I saw your video...


Lock eyes from across the room.

Signed, Zeldar
.....what?
Dr Parsnips
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 18:29
Quote: "Lock eyes from across the room."


Haha! genius! i see it now! lol Nice work dude!

HMMMMMMM
CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 20:25
Quote: "If you really want to see this implemented I'd try to bug your favorite modder to do it because like I said, I have a lot of projects and this was something I did when I was bored and because I wanted to be the first to implement ragdoll in FPSC."


Ohhh Plystire...Lol J/K...

Ths looks pretty cool, I like the concept, and it proves it well. I suppose the amount of wor it'd take to actually get this into a usable form would be alot...

"Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Give a man a fishing rod, and he'll break it up into firewood...or swap it for a fish."
-Frankie Boyle, on Mock the Week
Pus In Boots
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Posted: 13th Jan 2009 23:46
Quote: "
If you really want to see this implemented I'd try to bug your favorite modder to do it because like I said, I have a lot of projects and this was something I did when I was bored and because I wanted to be the first to implement ragdoll in FPSC."


Why don't you release the source mod so others can use it? Or have you just used the x10 ragdoll, made the video look like x9 and claimed credit? Sorry for being so quick to accuse, but I'm suspicious of everything.

"I will personally give aides to all the underprivalaged children of the world."

Slayer93
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Posted: 14th Jan 2009 01:30 Edited at: 14th Jan 2009 02:49
Quote: "Ohhh Plystire...Lol J/K... "


Seems my plan is already working

Quote: "
Why don't you release the source mod so others can use it? Or have you just used the x10 ragdoll, made the video look like x9 and claimed credit? Sorry for being so quick to accuse, but I'm suspicious of everything.
"


The reason I haven't released it was because of how it wasn't useful besides looking at (which can only get so fun). Although the important code is actually already out in the open in another thread on the dbpro boards, but I'm sure most don't visit those boards so I'll post the changes to the fpsc source here.

Now I won't post up the whole thing but if you have a good knowledge of dbpro and the fpsc source I'm sure you could figure out where to put this. Also note you have to download the updated version of the ODE dll I made if you want to use this.

Function to make the ragdoll-



You'll have to create a new action command with this stuff (I'm assuming you know where to put teh codez)...



And the command...you'll notice I used the position of obj to put the ragdoll so you would have to put down an entity and use the command in the appear script. This was only because I have a limited knowledge of the FPSC Source and it was the quickest way I could find at the time. I am sure there is a much better way.

Edit: Ok I decided to look to see how you could do this with just a marker. And changed the code from looking at the object position to the entity position, which works better.



I only released this because it was already freely available, I don't expect anyone to actually use this.

Edit: And the reason I said to ask your favorite modders was a little bit as a joke and because having to mod the ODE wrapper for dbpro and then to edit the FPSC source to mod my additions in there and then to write scripts to test them and show as examples would be a big pain. That's like programming in three different languages (I don't know if you consider the fpi scripting language as programming though)

But thats my first accusation since being here, have I proven myself yet

Pride
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Posted: 14th Jan 2009 01:44
Amazing, now we need to get Ply on this project! Thanks man!

- You know you're curious
Benjamin
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Posted: 14th Jan 2009 09:55
Quote: "Actually, if you kick a dead body, depending on weight and material, it would slide."

Sounds like you've been kicking too many dead babies. I don't think the average person has enough force in their kick to actually send a dead adult corpse sliding along the floor (unless on ice as someone mentioned), but who knows.

Oh and nice work on the ragdolls Slayer93. Cool stuff...

crispex
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Posted: 14th Jan 2009 11:40
True, but possible. I will admit that the bodies could be more realistic on collision with the player, as it seems they just float away when hit.

Temporarly away from the Phoenix Sentry.
Plystire
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Posted: 14th Jan 2009 20:09
The website containing the video won't open for me.

I'm quite interested in hearing people's thought on applying this to an actual model that isn't completely made up of seperate objects.


The one and only,


Pus In Boots
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Posted: 14th Jan 2009 20:44
Quote: "But thats my first accusation since being here, have I proven myself yet"


lol yeah, you have!

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Cyborg ART
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Posted: 14th Jan 2009 21:02
Quote: "I'm quite interested in hearing people's thought on applying this to an actual model that isn't completely made up of seperate objects.
"


Sounds great!

Slayer93
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Posted: 14th Jan 2009 22:50
Thanks all, I'm glad you all enjoy arguing over if a dead body would slide or not slide, its very entertaining to say the least.

Quote: "
lol yeah, you have! "




Quote: "The website containing the video won't open for me. "


Hmm...wierd, what does it tell you when you try to connect to it? Is it just the video or the whole site? Anyways I might upload it to youtube later on today if it still isn't working, although I'm still interested as to why it isn't working.

AaronG
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Posted: 14th Jan 2009 22:52
Is there an easy way to have the ragdolls once still bake into the ground? I'd prefer that! Seems like an easy job right?

TGPEG
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Posted: 14th Jan 2009 23:00
Quote: "Thanks all, I'm glad you all enjoy arguing over if a dead body would slide or not slide, its very entertaining to say the least."


I feel an 'Dead bodies do not slide. They will not slide. If you want to make them slide, you can do so over my dead body.' gag coming here.

[center]
Nomad Soul
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Posted: 14th Jan 2009 23:20
Looks like the pressure is now on for the first mod to implement this code and get it fully working.
Urlforce Studios
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Posted: 15th Jan 2009 02:51
I don't think you guys read Ply's response very well

SamHH
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Posted: 15th Jan 2009 03:44
Just do save link as Plys.
Wouldn't the ragdoll with meshes just change where objects are referenced to biped objects?


crispex
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Posted: 15th Jan 2009 04:13
It might be a good idea to shut off rag doll physics once it hits the ground, as this would cause incredible lag having many active rag dolls laying around.

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Plystire
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Posted: 15th Jan 2009 05:57
Why not just have them disappear after a set amount of tme being dead... or do like the pieces of crates, have them go away when they're off screen.


Perhaps you could try hiding the boxes and binding them to their respective parts on the model? You know, remove ODE physics from the character model when they die, then attach ragdoll boxes to the model limbs.


The one and only,


Slayer93
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Posted: 15th Jan 2009 06:09
Quote: "The website containing the video won't open for me."


Actually thinking about it, I saved it as an wmv because as an avi it was a ~150 mb and converting it from windows movie maker made it much smaller, can't remember the size right off the top of my head but I think it was under 10 mb. Maybe you can't play it in your browser like I can?

Quote: " Is there an easy way to have the ragdolls once still bake into the ground? I'd prefer that! Seems like an easy job right?"


If I get what you are saying, you want to be able to move a ragdoll after it has stopped moving on the ground? Well it already does that although I don't know what complications could arise from making it an entity because entities are deleted after they are killed(I think).

Quote: "Wouldn't the ragdoll with meshes just change where objects are referenced to biped objects?
"


I'm guessing your talking about the limbs on the object and referring to Plystire's post. Well it's possible, but I haven't looked at the limb commands to much, so I'm not sure if you could move the limbs within dbp. Even if it is possible, ode is linked to individual objects (Lee made it that way in the wrapper) so you would have a lot of objects, which I'm not sure how it would affect the performance of fpsc. Of course I could change this in the wrapper, but it is a bit more complicated as I would have to change a lot to allow multiple geoms or maybe even bodies on one object. Although I was planning on doing it eventually it would still take a lot of time to do it.

Quote: "It might be a good idea to shut off rag doll physics once it hits the ground, as this would cause incredible lag having many active rag dolls laying around."


Yes it might, maybe not once they hit the ground though, probably after a set amount of time or when they are completely still, besides how many enemies can you kill in fpsc to get a lot of active ragdolls at once.

A stress test I did in dbp allowed me to have ~60 ragdolls at once on the screen before the fps started dropping down to 30 fps (I like keeping things at 60 fps most of the time rather than 30).

Plystire
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Posted: 15th Jan 2009 08:38
Quote: "how many enemies can you kill in fpsc to get a lot of active ragdolls at once."


In one of my videos on youtube, I killed roughly 15-17 at once with a grenade launcher. you could probably do more, but it's best to plan for the most extreme cases.


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Aaagreen
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Posted: 15th Jan 2009 19:48
No, really, bodies dont slide around like that..

They would on smooth ice, but people dont tend to move when they're dead.

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knxrb
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Posted: 15th Jan 2009 21:01
Quote: "The website containing the video won't open for me."


Just right-click the link and select 'Save Target As', wait for it to finish downloading and then play it.
Otehrwise if you just click the link then IE will start downloading it in the background and it will look like the page is doing nothing but it's actually getting the video.

Plystire
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Posted: 15th Jan 2009 21:08
Quote: "Just right-click the link and select 'Save Target As', wait for it to finish downloading and then play it."


Yeah, that's what I ended up doing.

Quote: "Otehrwise if you just click the link then IE will start downloading it in the background and it will look like the page is doing nothing but it's actually getting the video."


Nope, I just said it couldn't open the page (Error page) and nothing else was occuring. No download or anything like that.


The one and only,


Slayer93
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Posted: 16th Jan 2009 06:23
Quote: "In one of my videos on youtube, I killed roughly 15-17 at once with a grenade launcher. you could probably do more, but it's best to plan for the most extreme cases. "


How unnatural of FPSC.
But yes always plan for every situation, that's the programmers way.

Quote: "Nope, I just said it couldn't open the page (Error page) and nothing else was occuring. No download or anything like that."


Strange, but I'm guessing it was just that video and anywhere else you go to on the site works?

Crav3
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Actually it would be better if the ragdoll automatically turns off when the player gets out of a certain range. Rather than setting a cirtain time, because sometimes people like playing with the bodies if they pass over them again.
Urlforce Studios
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Posted: 16th Jan 2009 08:26
I can't believe you guys don't understand how hard it is to make a ragdoll, the method he used was from an example of how to implement ode physics... FPSC uses character models with bones. The physics bodies must be applied to bones for true ragdolls in FPSC. This still hasn't been done yet. Sorry to rain on your guys' "how to move a dead body" seminar. But the modders/modelers with team experience know the difference.
Simple ode tech demo that found its way to fpsc, via code mind you, these were not entities beforehand. I don't want to come off trollish but you must understand - if it were easy as it appears Lee, ply, airslide, or nighthawk (or me, I personally looked into this months ago with the same ragdoll example) would have showed you it already.

Slayer93
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Posted: 16th Jan 2009 20:48
Quote: "I can't believe you guys don't understand how hard it is to make a ragdoll, the method he used was from an example of how to implement ode physics... FPSC uses character models with bones. The physics bodies must be applied to bones for true ragdolls in FPSC. This still hasn't been done yet. Sorry to rain on your guys' "how to move a dead body" seminar. But the modders/modelers with team experience know the difference.
Simple ode tech demo that found its way to fpsc, via code mind you, these were not entities beforehand. I don't want to come off trollish but you must understand - if it were easy as it appears Lee, ply, airslide, or nighthawk (or me, I personally looked into this months ago with the same ragdoll example) would have showed you it already."


Yep never has been done before, but it is possible. Although I'm not sure what you mean with the same ragdoll example from months ago? I made that ragdoll demo a day before I implemented into FPSC and a few months ago ODE couldn't even create joints. Joints was something I implemented into the wrapper so it would have been impossible months ago. Make it sound like I did no work what so ever, but I'm sure that wasn't your intention.

Urlforce Studios
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Posted: 16th Jan 2009 21:07
Ah my mistake. I had seen a ragdoll implementation exercise and figured it was the same you quoted My apologies.

Plystire
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Posted: 17th Jan 2009 22:22 Edited at: 17th Jan 2009 22:23
Hey, Slayer, just for grins (potentially), see if you can load an FPSC character into DBP and bind your ragdoll boxes to its limbs. If you can get the model's bone structure to follow the ODE influenced boxes, then ragdoll is essentially done.


(Yes, I am aware that it is much harder than I made it sound, lol. )


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