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3 Dimensional Chat / How Should I make my model look more real?

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castek
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Posted: 13th Feb 2009 07:00
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Hey guys! I'm trying to make a Hay (Or straw) Bale stack what ever you call it, but I cant get it too work. the problem probably is A. My modeling skills arnt very good and B. I'm using 3dWS.


So I was just wondering if you guys could give me any pointers or advice! But what ever you tell me it would have to work in a free program.


PLEASE and THANKS!!!!!!

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bond1
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Posted: 13th Feb 2009 07:36
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First, try putting everthing on one smoothing group (or whatever 3dWS calls them) to get rid of those sharp corners.

Next, try rounding off the corners of the model by adding more polys or beveling. The 90's are long gone, there's no need to be so neurotically stingy with polys anymore.

For the hay cylinder, get some reference of an actual hay bale, the ends of those have the hay in a circular pattern. I'll post some reference of my own if I remember, I took some reference pics of this very thing this past fall.

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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 13th Feb 2009 09:52
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It is generally better not to use smoothing groups (hard edges) to add definition to the low-poly game mesh. Smoothing groups cause the vertex normals to be split along the hard edge, which both increases the number of vertices in-game, and can cause normal map baking errors because the split normals each "see" a different part of the high-res mesh during the raycasting process.

Source

The myth about low poly game art is that the lower the poly's the better. It's actually the lower the vertices the better. In goes hand in hand, but technically it's the later. Smoothing groups do more harm than good.

I would bevel it like Bond said, but don't get carried away with it because that also doubles the vertex count along that edge. Something I would try (not sure how it would turn out), would be to stick random planes in around the surface of the object rotated so that they are sticking out at different angles and texture them with an alpha mapped stray/hay/dead grass image. This might help with making it pop, but then again it might not. Just play with it



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JLMoondog
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Posted: 13th Feb 2009 22:34
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Some random plan meshes with a random clumps of hay texture with alpha would add some depth to it. Add some subdivisions in the center and scale them irregularly. Add a simple normal/bump map and maybe a spec map and it will look much better.

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castek
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Posted: 14th Feb 2009 01:30
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Almost all of the above things are near impossible with 3DWS So Maybe I'll download wings 3d or anim8or.



Quote: "Add a simple normal/bump map and maybe a spec map and it will look much better.
"


How do you make a bump map or spec map? sorry if that's a stupid question but I really don't know

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castek
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Posted: 16th Feb 2009 00:00
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Bump:


How could I add a Height map or anything like that using a free program or 3DWS?

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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 16th Feb 2009 05:12
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Bump maps are grayscale. This site gives a pretty good explanation of them. Google around for good tutorials.

Uninstall 3DWS and download Blender. There are plenty of resources on Blender and it has a great community. If you doubt it, here is an animation made with Blender: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE7VzlLtp-4.

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greenlig
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Posted: 16th Feb 2009 06:04
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You could make a sweet bale without a bump map. In fact, it may only detract from it. If you have ever spent a fair amount of time around hay bales (I grew up on a farm ) you will know that barns are about the driest and dustiest places you can get. Try and bring that out in the character of your bale. Maybe make it a little fatter on the ends, and pull the middle of the bale in (the square one), add a few alpha mapped planes to simulate bits of straw, and the always present bailing twine I will do a quick model/drawing later and try to explain this a touch better.

Making simple models is a lot of fun, because the onus is on you, the designer, to make it as full of character as possible, within the limits of the item. Enjoy!!

Greenlig

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castek
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Posted: 16th Feb 2009 23:45 Edited at: 16th Feb 2009 23:48
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Ok i downloaded blender but it is really hard. I Didnt give up yet though.

@ Sid What programs can I use to add bump mapping? does Blender support it?

and @ Greenlig I need it to be low poly but still look good so I cant really have straw sticking out but thanks for the advice!

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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 17th Feb 2009 00:08
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www.google.com will help you find:

http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Manual/Bump_and_Normal_Maps

http://www.blender.org/development/release-logs/blender-232/displacement-mapping/

http://www.google.com/search?q=bump+mapping+in+blender&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

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greenlig
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Posted: 17th Feb 2009 01:16
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@ castek - adding a few polygons for straw wont hurt your polycount at all Don't model the straw individually, but just add a plane (two triangles) on each edge (24 extra polygons), and map a nice alpha texture to it.

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castek
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Posted: 17th Feb 2009 17:07
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Well you may be right but I do have about 100 hay bales cause I'm making a little mini game where they have to get through a hay maze. so I'm trying to keep the poly down and the fps up. And Maybe I will add it to a few of them. Thnaks for the advice though!

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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 17th Feb 2009 17:55
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As bond said above:
Quote: "The 90's are long gone, there's no need to be so neurotically stingy with polys anymore."
Of course this is within reason, but you don't have trade quality for poly's.

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castek
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Posted: 17th Feb 2009 23:39
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well currently my map has around 65,000 polys and it's only going around 40-50 fps with sync rat at 60

I originally had more but i removed some to keep it going faster

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greenlig
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Posted: 18th Feb 2009 02:48
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Might I suggest actually modelling the hay stack as a maze? It will definitely make it look better, then you can add cool alpha mapped bits of straw going every which way. Could be very cool.

Greenlig

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castek
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Posted: 18th Feb 2009 03:31
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Quote: "Might I suggest actually modelling the hay stack as a maze? It will definitely make it look better, then you can add cool alpha mapped bits of straw going every which way. Could be very cool."



What do you mean by that?

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greenlig
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Posted: 18th Feb 2009 14:48
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Instead of making each individual bale, make the whole maze as one object. That way you could really make it unique and add good detail. Also, you wouldn't be wasting polygons that aren't visible, such as the underside of bales.

Just an idea

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