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Geek Culture / Kazaa crack down...

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Puffy
22
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Location: United States
Posted: 6th Aug 2003 15:02
To anyone who has Kazaa or Kazaa Lite, Diet Kazaa... etc... There is an active crackdown on it... The fine is 125,000 bucks... =\ I suggest you guys get rid of it... (In the USA at least or California... -_- I dunno if anyone else cares)... I never thought they would fallow through =\...
EVERYONE LOVES THE PUFF!... =\
MrTAToad
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 6th Aug 2003 15:26 Edited at: 6th Aug 2003 15:28
I've got all the anti-RIAA running - mind you, their supeonas wont be valid in the UK anyway. I would like to point out I dont use Kazaa Lite much at all...


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IanM
Retired Moderator
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Location: In my moon base
Posted: 6th Aug 2003 15:33
Yeah, and only to download stuff you've already got huh?
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th Aug 2003 15:46
i hope you mean they're cracking down on anyone with stolen software on it ... cause i subscript to this bloody thing - hate to think that my last few months is invalid because of a court ruling.
surely you can still use it for legitimate reasons right??

Eddie Gordo
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Location: Ohio - USA
Posted: 6th Aug 2003 15:52
Uhhh...yeah, Raven they will only crack diwn on you if your Rating is Supreme and there is a website thats tells you if they are looking for you so you can just get a magnet and erase the MOBO...i gotta get the site from my man Scott but he may not be here at work today...

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Eddie Gordo
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Location: Ohio - USA
Posted: 6th Aug 2003 17:02
OK, here it is

[href]www.eff.org[/href]

its at the top of the center frame in the HTML...type in your IP adress or any user name or anything(kazaa name, ISP username, E-mail, IP)

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th Aug 2003 17:21
lol ... and people were bitching about Mircosofts new TOS agreement - you seen the new legislation they've passed?
well sit back and await the bitching from all thr pirateers

Wiggett
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Posted: 6th Aug 2003 17:37
what if you use it to get products that arent in circulation anymore, im sure thats viable?? arr

Eddie Gordo
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Posted: 6th Aug 2003 17:50
Nope thats piracy still...

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the_winch
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Posted: 6th Aug 2003 18:47
Quote: "Nope thats piracy still..."


If the company that owns the copyrights doesn't exist or care then I would guess you are safe.

For $125,000 fine you could run to the shops and quickly buy all the cds they knew you had mp3s of with cash and take the cds to court and say you had them for ages and they would hopfully let you off.

Thats if this isn't just scare mongering in the attempt to scare people to stop using it.
Arrow
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Posted: 6th Aug 2003 20:03
Lat time I checked, they could only nail you if people are uploading software off your computer.

Teenage Male Geek + Female Remotly Intersted in Common Geek Activities = Teenage Male Jackass
Eddie Gordo
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Posted: 6th Aug 2003 20:14
Last time i checked only 255 people have been supenaed, so i am guess none of us are gonna have that problem unless one of us has a T1 line and it very happily putting the word "the" and clicking all of the downloads that pop-up...

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Ian T
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Posted: 6th Aug 2003 20:34
*starts Kazaa*

They aren't scaring me with this crap .

--Mouse

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 6th Aug 2003 20:41
Quote: "They aren't scaring me with this crap"


Right on, brother!


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Eddie Gordo
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Posted: 6th Aug 2003 20:57
they arnt scaring me either cause i technically cant be sued cause i dont pay for the ISP...muhahahhahahaha...oh and the fact i dont use Kazaa...or P2P sharing...at all...

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8truths
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 03:37
If you plan to stay on Kazaa, better makes friends with transparent proxies for your IP addresses. Least you can do, if they catch you, is force them to pay for a couple guys to explain to the jury how it works.

Somebody is really being a jerk, because a few of the IPs I've used in the past have fallen the way side the last couple days.

BTW -- Eddie, they can sue you. They may not WIN, but they can sue you. Bear in mind, in the corporate mindset they can kill you with fees and paperwork. Look up Pyrrhic victory.

The RIAA is fighting for its existence, and I'd be surprised if they don't run themselves right into the ground rather than relent.

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
Ian T
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 03:54
Transparent proxies? Oh, I doubt those steps are neccessary. I share a very small amount of files, and download a very small amount of music. There are tens of thousands of Kazza users and many thousands of them are in a lot more danger than I am.

Regardless, I am curious about what exactly you mean by that

--Mouse

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Puffy
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 03:55
o_O Ok... few... I'm clean... but I'm going to stick off of Kazaa for a bit... think I might do some more MIRC... harder but better stuff...

EVERYONE LOVES THE PUFF!... =\
indi
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 04:13
I see it now, Zombie proxied machines all kazaa-ing for one persons greed.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 04:16
just when i think you can't be a bigger moron ... you go and prove me wrong.

Quote: "The RIAA is fighting for its existence"

.. a government backed agency is fighting for existance? how exactly?
.. RIAA might go under just for another agency to take thier place, there will always be an agency in its place.
Considering that these guys are not the ones who will sue you but actually track you down on behalf of a company suchas EMI or Warner Entertainment - which are the ones with the price tag NOT the agency.

Quote: "BTW -- Eddie, they can sue you. They may not WIN, but they can sue you. Bear in mind, in the corporate mindset they can kill you with fees and paperwork. Look up Pyrrhic victory."

actually rather than pushing for paperwork or any of that bull, what'll happen is they'll present the evidence to your attorney.
They will TRY to get you to settle this out of court, if you do goto court it isn't a case of "you might win..." if they are taking you to court then you have already lost. That is how the business works i'm afraid, companies don't take you to court unless they know they will get a return.
Hense they won't sue you they'll supeana you first, and try a cease&desist with compensation damages.

ya'll can sit there thinking up clever ways to get around this but i recommend you READ the law that was passed on this.
it doesn't affect anyone outside of California (yet!) but no doubt when the legislation goes to congress along with the spamming laws there are gonna be some bills passed.

and just thinking because your not in the US you can't be touched because all software is governed by an international law which states that if you USE that software you agree to the terms of service which bind you to the laws of the companies nationality incorporations.

Someone like FastTrak Publishing would be governed only by UK law... whereas someone like Nintendo would be governed by Japanese law -> International Law

so they can do you based on thier own laws internationally - but as they're also incorporated under European and US law they could choose to take you to court under thier laws too.

-- -- -- --

i seriously doubt you guys understand exactly what trouble even being accused of software piracy will do to you ... not just financially but as the part and package deal - they can destroy credibility ... it can give you a criminal record (yes just from being accused) - it could hurt your credit rating.

ya'll ain't got any clue to how serious the trouble is even being accused of this is, let alone if they actually follow through and take you to court.

no amount of snake oil will get you out of this - you think some francy IP masking or dynamic IP or IP Ghosting or IP Hopping will save your ass?
christ ya'll best get reaquinted very fast with what your computer has in it... every motherboard, processor give your comptuer a unique ID number, this is combined with your Networking Card/Modem/PCMICA card's own unique IP (which is built INTO the card you CANNOT change it no matter how much you want to) which can be called from your machine remotely.
each computer is like a finger print, and your hard disk also has anti-piracy measures now too ... unless you know EXACTLY what the hell your doing they will find evidance and link you.

you think you know that you can beat these people, they can take down the serial codes of everything attached to your computer at the time (which are all unique to that product) and they can take down the entire system callback to what is actually connected according to the OS... all within 10seconds on a standard modem.
Not to mention thier rights to obtain you information which is sent to your ISP everytime you log on, most IPs by law MUST log your computers number and activities...

so you may be able to pull of cleaning your own system and trying to fake your way around everything - but there is always a backup of everything you've done.

--- --- ---

sorry but out of all the cases they've taken to court they haven't lost one... what makes you think you can fool the system.
its like people who think they can fool a lie detector, yeah some people can - but you have to be bloody good at knowing what they'll be measuring and controlling that.
Sorry most people just don't have the skills, those who do will no doubt be noted to for having these skills and that will be taken into account with the prosecution.

Ian T
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 04:20
Oooh, Raven is on RIAA's side. Now I really have reason to be terrified

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
indi
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 04:30
"every motherboard, processor give your comptuer a unique ID number, this is combined with your Networking Card/Modem/PCMICA card's own unique IP (which is built INTO the card you CANNOT change it no matter how much you want to) which can be called from your machine remotely.
"
perhaps for newer machines but that rule doesnt apply to every machine used or id have a method to secure DT bound to each machine.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 04:42
it's not for external connection indi ... i'm not entirely sure how your suppose to access it.

i understand that all the machine connections are done through it, kinda like

Modem IP -> PPP (internet) IP -> Internet Service Host
Nic IP -> IPX (intranet) IP -> Intranet Box -> Server

my point is no matter how many barriers you can put between you and the internet - at the end of the day its like a phone system, you can hop you number as many times as you like, but if the police can jot down your home number they can call you and get an answer.

how you get this number i ain't got a clue, its in the IP callbacks - and oftenly sheilded from inbound access ... which is why games online have to either find out your systems IP when they connect else they have to refresh every 3600seconds to get the current internet one.

Ian T
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 04:52
Yes, if you're using the internet, you can be tracked, that's a rule of life. I'm not afraid of being tracked

--Mouse

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8truths
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 04:59
Raven? Please define "government-backed".

The RIAA is a trade group.

The RIAA is not backed by the US government. It does not receive money or even advise and support from the US government.

Examples of US government-backed groups: DARPA, the USDA, IAEA, CDC, Halliburton, Martin-Lockheed.

The US government would never "back" an entertainment organization because it is all cost (public faith when the RIAA serves kids) and no gain (nobody cares politically).

Saying the government "backs" the RIAA grossly inflates the truth.

With Raven, you don't need fact-checking . . . Raven's truth always looks like what you'd find at a carnival: inflated quickly and twisted into something other than what it was.

. . .

Yes, the US government does typically stand behind those positions the RIAA supports -- until a SCOTUS ruling comes down, they have to.

And, of course, the SCOTUS tends to never weigh in on electronic rights.

The flip side is, a surprising number of US appellate judges are actually siding with file-sharers (to my mind, more than 2 is surprising!).

The general trend I feel is right: America was built on notions of privacy. The entire current conception of the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 14th amendments goes right out out the window with the RIAA.

The RIAA needs to get real. The old model failed in the new era. File swapping is not going to cease.

All they will do is capture the clumsy (alright by me) and help the agile develop into a better breed.

And, if they follow through on the number of filings they plan, it would just be an undue burden on the US legal system. I've known a few judges in my time, and they all tire of petitioner's bullshit very quickly. No judge likes to see a face too many times, even if they are right.

If the RIAA follows thru on their entire threat, all they will do is create such a case load that courts will eventually throw them out.

Christ, I'd hate to see real criminals get their appeals because the courts start moving so slow that due process is violated.

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
8truths
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 05:26
Let's cover criminal law real quick kids:

Quote: "There are four essential elements to a charge of criminal copyright infringement. In order to sustain a conviction under section 506(a), the government must demonstrate: (1) that a valid copyright; (2) was infringed by the defendant; (3) willfully; and (4) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain. "


http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm01847.htm

In other words, you gotta make money off it. Also, there has to be a cash value of $2500 at stake over a given 180-day period, involving at least 10 copies.

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 05:52
lmao ... fine whatever now your a lawyer, tommorrow you might be traindriver - must be nice to live in that world of yours that plays by just your rules.

you mind actually explaining the given taken quote 8truths ... i mean this should be very inciteful to many people hearing you explain exactly what is ment by this legislation.

Megaman Zero
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 06:04 Edited at: 7th Aug 2003 06:05
Yeah, I still think, that the guys doing the suing should be shot, killed, & slain. If its for private use, not at a store or radio station, we shouldnt get this kind of BS. Note: this is a personal oppinion. ^^

By the way, is IMesh in this list? IMesh is a pretty good service & I belive second only to kazaa.

BTW Raven, he may have gotten that info by one of my previous posts in another area of this forum.

Zero (Formerly Shadow Guyver)
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indi
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 06:19
i mesh adds a tonne of addware crap to your system, let alone trying to remove it from your system.

Arch
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 07:06
Err all this is gay. If I get caught i'll just put on my puppy dog face and just say to the judge "..*sniff I just wanted to hear some music because mtv doesnt play any..*sniff" or say im poor or something.

dude and you know wtf how else am I gonna get videos that appeared on Jay Leno, or those Mtv Unplugged. I dont get Mtv2..If I had mtv2 on my cable then I might actually give up on kazaa. Because the only stuff I download is live music anyway, whether it be video or an mp3.

Ian T
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 07:13
Kazza installs loads of adware crap too

1- Use K-Lite
2- Use Spybot- Search and Destroy
3- Use PeerGuardian
4- Have a Nice Time

--Mouse

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8truths
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 08:12
[RAVEN FLAME WAR PORTION]

Other posters (Megaman, particularly) -- don't mind the jabs between Raven and I . . .

Raven is still under the delusion that there is a Coke Soda in Britain.

He misses the underpinning point deliberately, and makes no effort to rebutt the the point itself (in other words, typical Raven style -- make a claim, never present facts).

[/RAVEN FLAME WAR PORTION]

. . .

[ACTUAL RESPONSE TO THREAD PORTION]

Kazaa is a classic case of getting what you pay for. I actually have told people around me if they install it, I am not helping them, even if they offer their first-born son's corpse next to a chest of gold.

If they were too dumb to DL Kazaa Lite when it was readily available, and to hunker down behind a transparent proxy and disable all sharing, screw them.

The least you can do is force the RIAA to make an effort. Counterforces, baby. Equal and opposite and all that jazz (yes, Raven, please attack me here for 1, claiming to be a physicist; and 2, claiming to be a jazz music lover).

And too people who say this is awful -- all gain and no reward -- DUH!

Let's not act as if there is a tremendous and noble purpose to Kazaa. Don't jump on the bacteria for living off the leeches.

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
HZence
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 08:20
Gotta agree. It's like whenever you prove Raven wrong he just ignores you - ??? I don't get it either 8T

I've also noticed he's been ignoring me a lot lately...hmm...

SW Games - www.freewebs.com/swgames

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8truths
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 08:29
[RAVEN]

Oh, aich -- now he'll say you're claiming to be a psychologist.

[/RAVEN]

[BODY]

<p> </p>

[/BODY]

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
HZence
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 08:33 Edited at: 7th Aug 2003 08:34
Lol, 8T, I bet now he'll say you're claiming to be an HTML programmer.

SW Games - www.freewebs.com/swgames

Yeah, I know, I only have one game. Yeah, I know it sucks. But I made it! Me!
Toilet Freak
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 08:36
is this just in america?
does it affect Australia?(note, I'm in australia)

DreamersScars-Toiletfreak-
If you need a animated chara go here... It isn't that great but it'll do as a tester model thingy http://users.tpg.com.au/users/cnkyk8k2/index.html
Toilet Freak
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 08:37
I just use kazaa for anime,(I'm sure it isn't illegal unless that particular anime is liscenced in Aus)

DreamersScars-Toiletfreak-
If you need a animated chara go here... It isn't that great but it'll do as a tester model thingy http://users.tpg.com.au/users/cnkyk8k2/index.html
indi
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 08:42
RIAA needs to find a clue. so far they have nothing much.
what will happen is this.
kazaa dies like napster
a new name is invented with the same procedures
life goes on.

emule is another similar one but with protection for stopping multiples of the same file as well as iding each download with a unique number so it can all be tracked.

Damokles
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 11:40
I rember the time, when CD didn't exist : we had tapes ... And as far as I remember, I knew many people copying from tape to tape, or from radio to tape. And I never heard about sueing as much, as today.

Is it wrong to download a movie, which allready came on TV ?
- I mean, you could have it on video-tape, so why not in DivX ?

"Begin at the beginning, and go on till you come to the end: then stop." - Lewis Carroll
Eddie Gordo
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 16:40
Ima explain why thats so pointless to say v


Quote: " Eddie, they can sue you. They may not WIN, but they can sue you. Bear in mind, in the corporate mindset they can kill you with fees and paperwork"


Because


Quote: "oh and the fact i dont use Kazaa...or P2P sharing...at all...
"


And there you have it...unless we can now sue over nothing than i am ok...

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 18:12
Quote: "kazaa dies like napster"


Kazaa can't die ... the simple reason they're still going is because there is no law to stop file sharing software without stopping WANs.
All Kazaa is, is a software which creates a huge WAN - the software itself isn't to blame, the OFFICIAL software from Sharman Networks actually has alot of features to actually make sure piracy isn't done (without turning off a few little ticks)

they can't legally stop Kazaa without making ICS illegal too, and Remote Desktop.

Ian T
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 19:14
They can't stop Kazza, period . The technology that makes it run is so basic (but brilliant) that it'll keep going no matter what they try and do to stop it. As long as one person is sharing one file, it'll still be operational.

Of course, people might stop using Kazza because a better file sharing client turned up, but so far, all the others (Emule etc) have seemed very weak to me.

--Mouse

Famous Fighting Furball
Eddie Gordo
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 19:54
Yeah i am curious as to the principal of how WAN and Peer to Peer worked anyone wanna explain how Kazaa works...is it with a server or what...i never really understood the way that it connects...

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John H
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 20:47
Hey Indi - when does something become a Flame-Bait? I never have used that....yet

RPGamer

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Porting all files to my new computer
actarus
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 21:00 Edited at: 7th Aug 2003 21:00
Oh geez that sure explains alot.

If I've seen it all before,why's this bus taking me back again? @_@
8truths
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 21:01
Eddie -- some confusion. "You" is in the general sense, not one Eddie. Of course, that would've been more clear if the post hadn't started with "Eddie--" . . . Sorry . . . Obviously, all of this hinges on whether your computer was used.

. . .

Can Kazaa die? Probably not, but the RIAA can put a HUGE dent into it. Eventually, when there is nothing worth searching for, Kazaa will whither as people migrate to the next program.

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
Eddie Gordo
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 21:15
Now i am lost...i dont understand what 8truths just said...more than 1 Eddie? u mean like you was meant as a general orientation to mean those who use file sharing software cuase the whole point of why that was pointless was Raven made a big deal about them sueing me cause of that thing that was said...when i cant be sued cause i dont use Kazaa...and whats that about flame-bait...i am so lost to what you guys are talking about here...i just wanna know how Kazaa uses P2P as it says to connect all of the users online...WAN(wide area networking?) is that just a way that all the computers on the internet can find each other like a reversed LAN thats covers all the IPs on the internet?

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8truths
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 21:31
One, as is "the one and only".

. . .

Kazaa is a distributed network. Look up something like "Sharman distributed network" on Google and you should get a winner.

We can't stop here! This is bat country!
Eddie Gordo
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 21:40
ok, thanx though i didnt get "the one and only" comment...you mean all the people on Kazaa...

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8truths
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Posted: 7th Aug 2003 21:49
This feels like clarity.

Yes . . . all users on Kazaa (as you is "All you Kazaa users", not "Hey, you, Eddie Gordo, you're Raven's flame bait victim!").

BTW -- IBM is going to begin offering its own distributed networks. Not for file sharing, but for unloading major processor tasks onto their servers. Total subscription service.

We can't stop here! This is bat country!

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