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3 Dimensional Chat / Maya or 3ds max ?

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Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 13th Mar 2009 19:13
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Hi, i was just wondering what would be better for character modeling ? Maya or 3D Studio Max? I'm talking in these areas
- Ease
- Time
- Overall feel and use

Thanks, Because if i find maya better and easier i shall switch from 3ds max.
Soo yeah, tell me your opinion.
Thanks alot.

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Alucard94
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Posted: 13th Mar 2009 19:26
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I say download the trials and try them out. See which one is best for yourself.


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Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 13th Mar 2009 19:33 Edited at: 13th Mar 2009 19:34
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Doing that now
Thanks
Also @Alucard, May i ask how long have you been using maya before you did that 'next gen character' Because its brilliant !

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Alucard94
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Posted: 13th Mar 2009 19:38
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Oh that thing, I haven't been using maya for a long time, I'd say about 6 months now or so, and before that I used blender and before that I used anim8or.


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Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 13th Mar 2009 19:40
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Cheers, Maybe you should do another character like that.



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Alucard94
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Posted: 13th Mar 2009 19:42 Edited at: 13th Mar 2009 19:43
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Oh I'm in the process of something right now.

EDIT: Just realized how off topic I am. Never mind these posts, I've said what I wanted said.


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Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 13th Mar 2009 19:48
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No problem



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visual dreamer
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Posted: 13th Mar 2009 23:46
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i wil go wiht 3d max it is a very good programme for modeling and many tut to find on internet and cheaper than maya
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Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 13th Mar 2009 23:59
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But when it comes to character modeling, there seems to be more dvd's covering it (in maya)



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bond1
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 12:47
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Autodesk has a series of DVD on modeling a next-gen character for games in 3ds Max.

But yeah, you should really try both - and see which one clicks for you. Also keep in mind that a character is ultimately meant to move. You'll probably want to rig and animate it at some point. And Character Studio in 3ds max is a great timesaver for that sort of thing. And if you have FPSC in mind, then you can dump the biped file directly into Max. Probably be a lot harder to do in Maya, involving lots of hacky file conversions.

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Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 14th Mar 2009 14:44
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I'll stick with max, tried maya didnt like it. Thanks anyway, and what are these tutorials you talk of bond ?
Thanks alot .



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bond1
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Posted: 15th Mar 2009 05:26 Edited at: 15th Mar 2009 05:28
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They are on Autodesk website - I think under "self-paced learning" or something like that. There are 3 in the series, modelling, texturing, and animation. They are all pretty good, with the modelling DVD highly focused on doing everything in Max, as opposed to taking it into Mudbox or Zbrush. I learned some cool tricks from those DVD's.

It's the series with the guy making the pirate looking character, with the bandana on his head.

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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 15th Mar 2009 06:06
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I use 3D Studio Max and can tell you it's a great program. However, I hear that Maya, and even Softimage's, character and rigging tools are better. Whether this is true or not, I haven't an idea.

Also, something to think about is what software do potential employers use? I see more employers using Maya than I do Max.

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-
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jasonhtml
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Posted: 15th Mar 2009 06:25
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i think Maya wins hands down. i found it easier to model with and had a better feel (although it was harder to animate with). also, it has an amazing scripting system. if there is something Maya can't do, you can make a script for it really quick.

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bond1
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Posted: 15th Mar 2009 07:24
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I think that games companies are about evenly split between Max and Maya, and XSI is a VERY distant third. But that's not the point, as far as modelling, all three are more than capable. And it boils down to personal preference.

Quote: "also, it has an amazing scripting system. if there is something Maya can't do, you can make a script for it really quick.
"


So does Max, and the number of scripts avaialable at Scriptspot is staggering. You can find just about anything you would ever need that Max can't do out of the box.

For what it's worth, Epic Games (Gears of War) use Max, as does Ubisoft (Far Cry 2, Assasins' Creed, etc.) I'm sure Maya has an equally impressive list. Just use what you like, it's so not worth fretting over.

Even many pros at Polycount, which is very Max-centric, use Silo for their personal modelling needs.

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Alucard94
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Posted: 15th Mar 2009 11:58
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The only real reason I started using maya was that there is no Mac OSX version of Max (Obviously) otherwise I would have used that, and I've been very impressed with maya's selection of tools and such. Although I'm sure that Max has equally impressive tools, as bond said, it's just personal perference.


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Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 15th Mar 2009 14:24 Edited at: 15th Mar 2009 15:20
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Quote: "it's just personal perference."


Well its max for me Thanks everyone i'm going to spend £300 on some character modeling books and dvds, Maybe from gnomon .

@Bond 1, Emailed you



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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 15th Mar 2009 19:12
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Quote: "I think that games companies are about evenly split between Max and Maya, and XSI is a VERY distant third. But that's not the point, as far as modelling, all three are more than capable. And it boils down to personal preference."


Yeah, agreed. It's good to know both IMO. Being a switch hitter makes your more employable. I'll be focusing on Maya and Zbrush over the summer.

I don't understand why XSI is a distant third though. You'd think that with it's awesome UVW Unwrapping capabilities (Max SUCKS at this IMO) and ICE that it would be on par with Max and Maya, but I guess not. Check out this link for more: http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/new_features/default.aspx

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-
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bond1
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Posted: 16th Mar 2009 00:49
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Quote: "it would be on par with Max and Maya, but I guess not."


It IS on par with capabilities of Max and Maya, and probably exceeds them in a lot of places too. There was an article about this in a recent Game Developer. Studios are so ingrained with their software, it's hard to convince a team of artists to switch with what they are comfortable with.

Even Softimage's crossgrade offer didn't convince people to switch, which forced Avid to dump the software and seek out a buyer, which happened to be Autodesk.

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Oolite
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Posted: 16th Mar 2009 02:00
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XSI's rigging tools are amazing, i generally like the user interface and the way it works aswell. It doesn't feel as clunky as maya or max and is way more stable.
It's also dirt cheap.
Personally i'm a max guy, thats because i've been using it since version 5 and its force of habit now. I have used maya extensively though and i do like all the spiffy effects they have (liquids and grass). But as a modeller i find it too annoying to switch between tools. Max hit the nail on the head UI wise i think.
Character Animation Toolkit is also an amazing plugin for max and i'd recommend buying it if you ever get serious about this 3d thing.


I'll finish them whenever i can be bothered.
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Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 16th Mar 2009 12:08
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Yeah, Ive been using max since 7 but thats nothing i heard that max payne used milkshape for there games (i think )



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Alucard94
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Posted: 16th Mar 2009 16:51
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I actually think Maya hit a perfect balance with having an easy to use UI and very in depth features. For me the only downside is that you can't make the UI darker.


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QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 17th Mar 2009 00:00
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It is a matter of preference. It is a matter of preference. It is a matter of preference. It is a matter of preference.

Neither. Program. Is. Better.

Anyone who tries to argue for Maya over 3ds max or vice versa should literally be chainsawed to death. Literally. Slowly.

You can use either program to produce exactly what you want. Any number of cheaper or free programs will also give you a similarly powerful toolset. The important thing is becoming fluent in the software that you CHOOSE.

DelvarWorld
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Oolite
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Posted: 17th Mar 2009 00:43
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Nobody listen to Quoth, he doesn't know what he's talking about.


Everyone knows max is better.


I'll finish them whenever i can be bothered.
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Sushi01
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Posted: 17th Mar 2009 02:21 Edited at: 17th Mar 2009 02:21
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Own you all.......Lightwave
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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 17th Mar 2009 03:24
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Autodesk should start merging some of their software. I mean seriously, they own half the block, why not just go in for it all? They remind me of Microsoft.

Someone mentioned it above, but studio's are the most reluctant to change because that's the software they are comfortable with. I think a big problem is that there is too much variety that a standard can't be set. Maya and Max should merge for sure. XSI would be a nice third, but one can dream.

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-
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bond1
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Posted: 17th Mar 2009 06:40
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Autdodesk does market Max and Maya a bit differently. Max is touted as more of a "One box solution". While they market Maya for it's extendability, I guess it's a bit easier to write custom tools for, and plug into complex pipelines.

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KeithC
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Posted: 18th Mar 2009 16:35
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Quote: "It's the series with the guy making the pirate looking character, with the bandana on his head."


I think you mean this one:

http://www.focalpress.com/Book.aspx?id=1226

...He also made this one:

http://www.elsevierdirect.com/product.jsp?isbn=9780240811475

....and this one:

http://www.focalpress.com/Book.aspx?id=3100

-Keith

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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 18th Mar 2009 17:31
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I own the last book in that list there. I can tell you it's pretty good. The last chapters especially walked through some advanced stuff that I had been curious about, like texturing baking. But I don't think you get any better tutorials that the ones you see on Gnomon and Eat3D. Plus their video. Book? I hate book. Book is stupid.

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Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 18th Mar 2009 18:56
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Thanks for the links Keith, also im spending £300 at gnomonworkshop



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KeithC
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Posted: 18th Mar 2009 21:50
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No problem; I just stumbled upon them today.

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bond1
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2009 17:06 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2009 17:07
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Actually, the one's Keith mentioned weren't the ones I was thinking of. The ones I bought were DVD's on Autodesk's website. Here is the one focused on modeling:

http://store.autodesk.com/DRHM/servlet/ControllerServlet?Action=DisplayProductDetailsPage&SiteID=adsk&Locale=en_US&ThemeID=516200&Env=BASE&productID=81370000

Texturing:
http://store.autodesk.com/DRHM/servlet/ControllerServlet?Action=DisplayProductDetailsPage&SiteID=adsk&Locale=en_US&ThemeID=516200&Env=BASE&productID=81371000

Rigging:
http://store.autodesk.com/DRHM/servlet/ControllerServlet?Action=DisplayProductDetailsPage&SiteID=adsk&Locale=en_US&ThemeID=516200&Env=BASE&productID=81370100

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Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2009 17:26
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Thanks bond! I'll buy thoose soon!

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Alucard94
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2009 17:52
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Demonair you sure have a bit of money, mind sharing it with me for a while?


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Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2009 17:54
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Lol, its my money ive been saving for a year now, but sure

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Alucard94
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2009 18:03
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On other notes I just purchased some of the ones that Bond posted, they seem great.


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Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2009 18:08
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Wait wut How did you purchase them soo fast and them get there so fast ?

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Alucard94
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2009 18:09
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Well it's still downloading.


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Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2009 18:11 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2009 18:12
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Ohh, i see downloadable dvds Lol...

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Bursar
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2009 16:24
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Does anyone know if it's possible to get perpetual student licenses for either Maya or Max in the UK?

Looking around it seems as if they're all 13 or 14 month licenses, and I gather that the software does actually expire after that time.

One site lists a pre-order of Max 2010 that's got a perpetual license, but there's nothing for Maya, and I don't know when Max 2010 is due for release.
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lazerus
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Posted: 24th Mar 2009 18:20
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hmm mayby in 2010?

And ive never heard of a perpetual license, my 6th form bought a year lease i think but they just top it up when needed, and its very expensive at that,, thank god i get it for free lol

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visual dreamer
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here is a very good deal
3d max 9 for $149.95
http://crl.name/Other-Autodesk_psg-Pc-buy-Autodesk_3ds_max_9.aspx
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Bursar
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No wonder it's cheap:
Quote: "1. Why does your software is cheaper then the original software?
That's all because we offer only copies of license versions.
This mean that you will not receive any printed documents (license or instruction)"

Ignoring the dodgy English, this should be ringing major alarm bells with anyone.

A lot of software like Max and Maya, the license terms generally forbid you from transferring ownership of the software to anyone else. This means you are purchasing unlicensed software.

If wanted to go down this route, I'm sure I could find somewhere to just download it all for free.
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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 24th Mar 2009 21:39
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Quote: "hmm mayby in 2010?"


Nope. It's like cars. 2010 is due out shortly. In a few months I hear.

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Degrees: Computer Animation-
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