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3 Dimensional Chat / Domminance war IV- lazerus reborn-

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lazerus
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Posted: 7th Apr 2009 15:53
thought it'd be nice to show what ive been up to on dom war,

Eleka and Menoa

Eleka
Class - Hume
Sub - clearic
Weapon - Aftermath

Menoa - Pet
Class - Dragoon
sub - Defender

Lets start with AfterMath;




The face on the end will be Greentooth, orgre-ish

Menoa-



These' are the newest up-to-date versions of them so far,
Eleka has been giving me some problems mainly with the harrasing epic failures of zbrush lol. Ill have her base boxed off properly in 3DSM when I get the chance.

Ill keep this thread going with regular updates when i can

Cheers cb

The Next
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Posted: 7th Apr 2009 16:01 Edited at: 7th Apr 2009 16:07
thats some very nice work you got there.

I really need to try out zbrush it looks great how easy is it to use im having a look at it now and just downloading the demo

lazerus
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Posted: 7th Apr 2009 16:31 Edited at: 7th Apr 2009 16:32
its quite easy, ive only been using it for about a week, although i had a student copy for over a year now. Never liked it at first, but now i love it,

Here some tuts that will really help,


http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=53087

Have fun on it,

Heres the update on Menoa + aftermath







The Next
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Posted: 7th Apr 2009 16:32
Thanks so much for the tutorials they will really help me out

lazerus
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Posted: 10th Apr 2009 19:23 Edited at: 10th Apr 2009 20:23
I physically slapped myself for this mistake, I forgot to uv unwrap my base mesh...

so menoa above was scraped, I know have polished up the mesh + uv-ed

And heres my progress so far,



With a clean slate i decided to go more sleek and dynamic, after all a medic pet has to be fast, but still strong enough to fend off anything that is lingering in the area.

The head is still under construction, so ill post renders later. If you haven't guessed already, this is the high poly version i will use to make the normal map. Although i recemtly found out zbrush 3 cant do this or something like that...

cheers cb


edit//\//\//\//\//\//\//\//\////\/\/\//\////\




Ive made head-way faster than i expected, Ive fixed up a head base and the saddel. I plan to go for broke tonight and completly finish menoa//hopefully //

if your wondering the spikes and flat parts that stick out are where armour will be placed, it just helps me keep track of where everthing is going,

Sid Sinister
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Posted: 10th Apr 2009 20:28
Very good sir! My only critique so far is the sharp pokey thing near his elbow. What is that? If it's a bone, it looks out of place. Very odd.

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
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Alucard94
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Posted: 10th Apr 2009 22:35
Quote: "Very good sir! My only critique so far is the sharp pokey thing near his elbow. What is that? If it's a bone, it looks out of place. Very odd."

That's most likely an abnormally in the mesh, Zbrush tends to do that with triangles or strange geometry from what I recall.


Alucard94, the member of the future of the past.
lazerus
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Posted: 11th Apr 2009 00:24
yeah thats prety much what they are, although ironically there in the same spots that the plates of armour will be. they where a very strange occurence since the mesh was okay untill sub-div lvl 3.

the holes in the mesh is where the other pieces of armour will be. like the saddel over the two back holes.

headache... ughh... am using my rubber keyboard to stop the keys hits hurting my head... I can hear each turn of the fans in the drive...

no more working on menoa for me today lolz

cheers cb

Deathead
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Posted: 11th Apr 2009 04:03
You do realise you have to make it a reasonable polycount, game standard, you so far have established a high poly mesh in Zbrush, but I doubt its able for entry.



Demon Air 3D
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Posted: 11th Apr 2009 17:43
He could just retopo it...
lazerus
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Posted: 11th Apr 2009 19:54
No the idea was to create a high poly normal using zbrush then transfer that to the lowpoly mesh which is at 2K I think?

Quite a novel idea used by many. Ohh ands its 20k there even with the hidden armour and other parts, i expect 40K- - for the final which i can then easily interchange onto the low poly mesh.
Theorecticaly anyways. this is my first real stab at zbrush, its daunting at first but onece you get your head around it, phew its amazing

Sid Sinister
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Posted: 13th Apr 2009 09:45
It should bake onto a lower mesh fine. If you want to mess around with Mesh Lab and see if you can't get something close to a decent looking low poly, then go in and fix any errors, it may be quicker. There should be a tool in Mesh Lab that does poly reduction.

You ever done something like this before?

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
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=Acid=
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Posted: 13th Apr 2009 11:29
To be honest, you really should have created a base high poly mesh in Max, Transfer it into zbrush for some sculpting, then rebuild the low poly around the high poly zbrushed one transferred back into max.
That would allow you to model something with a bit more definition and conceptual idea.
Alucard94
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Posted: 13th Apr 2009 11:55
Well you can always re-topologize in Zbrush very easily, Zbrush has some rather great re-topo tools.


Alucard94, the member of the future of the past.
Sid Sinister
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Posted: 13th Apr 2009 12:08
No, Acid has a point. But that's just one way of doing things. I personally wouldn't want to rebuild a whole new mesh. If it were me, I would just clone it and work backwards taking away details until I reached the right poly count. I'm sure there are some draw backs to this though.

Although I'm curious... Acid, it sounds like you've done this before. And you are undoubtedly someone of some caliber here (industry experience sir?), can you go into more detail about why it's better to do it your way?

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
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Alucard94
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Posted: 13th Apr 2009 12:21
Quote: "No, Acid has a point."

Well I'm agreeing with him, just saying that you could do that just as well in Zbrush.
From what I've understood Acid has been around for quite some time with another account.


Alucard94, the member of the future of the past.
lazerus
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Posted: 13th Apr 2009 13:17
I did originally build a base mesh in max, its alot easyier then zbrush's zpheres

And as the thousands bleed stagnant and scream to plead for their lost memories and questions in a melancholy pain and fear.
So I will crouch down, smile and whisper,
No. //BlooD Right, Book by me
=Acid=
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Posted: 14th Apr 2009 02:32
Quote: "Although I'm curious... Acid, it sounds like you've done this before. And you are undoubtedly someone of some caliber here (industry experience sir?), can you go into more detail about why it's better to do it your way?"


Well actually, I have been around this forum since probably 2004, Had changed many accounts. Although I did not gain my experience from here though. Alot of it has been gained from other game art sites you that guys know, and have learned quite a bit of stuff from it. It was great having up front professional help rather than being outspoken who has less or the same experience than you. I have also worked on next gen mods/projects such as renegade X and zombie panic source. Helped me Alot learning the next gen things that were required. Eventually I landed my first paid contract from an open company back in 06' for some beta game, made a few thousand. For the time being, I have been working freelance for the last few years just to have some time to have a break from deadlines, and for me to have time to create a portfolio, which will be soon.

What I consider for these forums is that I understand and respect this is an INDIE forum, and you wont actually land the exact "big time" hire, the people on these forums generally develop small time games. This too and that Alot or the majority of game artists here seem to me inexperienced or Amateur. It can be irritating being outspoken by someone with less experience than me at times. I don't like always going in depth about it then converting it into some argument. I intentionally joined these forums as to get some insight about the way people organize themselves with projects. Most 3D threads seem to be people just beginning 3D modeling, which I find fine, but would recommend them to join an actual site with real professionals, to get some constructive crit.

Anyway back on topic lol.

From what I understand there are a few methods for creating your normal maps. I particularly suggest doing the way I mentioned before which is currently the most dominating solution of today's next-gen needs.

Well first up In-depth explanation.
The first thing to do would be to create a good base mesh fairly mid/high poly in max with a good poly distribution set out correctly. Everything must be in quads for this. Then export it into Zbrush, whatever add details deform the current mesh. Then Import it back into max.

After that rebuild the low poly mesh around it, makes it particularly easy because you just have to follow the silhouette. Then rebake it with the high poly to the low.

Why?
Doing so Creating the low poly around it, can saves you polys and doing so also does not give you limitations to the amount of detail for the low poly.

For eg: Just say I have been scuplting away at a dog from a subdivided mid/high poly mesh, and I decided that I create some organic rocket launcher artillery extruding itself from dog's back. It would be easy when modeling the low poly because I would have that extra detail added in. But if it were just a low poly to high poly you wouldn't be able to add any extra details without actually rebuilding the low poly again and sculpting it all over again. Doing the method I mentioned you could add whatever you wanted, without having the limitation of a low poly mesh.

Creating a low poly then high poly for sculpting, you are limited to the low poly mesh boundaries, thus you cannot expect to add mesh additions or subtractions for that matter.

Low Poly to high poly can be acceptable in some areas or models, this was last gen techniques, but in an organic case my method that I use its much more applicable and easier for anyone. If it does take the extra time, it will be worth it definitely if you have detail 10x better than the original low to high.

I have been told it takes longer getting and setting everything up with a low to high.

I do understand that Zbrush has good retopo tools, but it seems to take longer fixing everything right. I don't use much of these tools. If though I were someone that spent most of the time sculpting instead of low/mid poly work, of course using the retopo tools would be an advantage, you can just adjust the low poly mesh (that this the person for example isn't very good at) to suit the high. Still not getting as much details.

I'll try and get some images up for some better explanation.

@lazerus, It is easier than using zspheres although zspheres are actually very powerful for someone just creating there base mid/high mesh in zbrush, so it saves time without having to transfer back and forth. You'll only have to do it once that way.
It more Preferable if someone likes to sculpt more and create very low poly meshs.

You really should have created most of the details in max, without caring about the poly count, perhaps the face should have been roughed out?
lazerus
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Posted: 14th Apr 2009 12:33
I know, this is a pic of the low poly mesh i made before,

and low poly aftermath


after math is already quite suited for the normal although I will need to mod alot, I see what you mean very clearly now and i don't see why i did'nt think of that before, especiallyt since ive been keeping a close eye on Fletchers work,

dumb struck aside thanks for the crit ive got alot of work to do, as for the head, it has been buggging me so dont work about it, itll be fixed soon enough.

thxs people

And as the thousands bleed stagnant and scream to plead for their lost memories and questions in a melancholy pain and fear.
So I will crouch down, smile and whisper,
No. //BlooD Right, Book by me
lazerus
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Posted: 15th Apr 2009 18:54 Edited at: 15th Apr 2009 18:58
Heres, Eleka, well most of her anyway,




The arms are still being worked on, I done something screwy on the elbow joint so am jsut finishing that off and ill post up screenies,

sorry for no wireframe yet, having 'some 'problems with backface culling, seems it doesn't want to play nice, any help there would be nice, My cat slept on my keyboard so i don't have the faintest idea what happened.

I really couldn't be bothered with the torso, so i didn't, its got a gaping hole where the chest should be, but the armour is there so it doesn't really matter,

The theme is monster hunter, mainly the rathalos armour, picked it up the other day and it well insired me,



original idea,

cheers cb

And as the thousands bleed stagnant and scream to plead for their lost memories and questions in a melancholy pain and fear.
So I will crouch down, smile and whisper,
No. //BlooD Right, Book by me
The Next
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Posted: 15th Apr 2009 20:12
I like it the sketch is pretty good as well.

This will be good to see once done.

Alucard94
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Posted: 15th Apr 2009 20:28
Couldn't you just show a shaded wireframe shot from Max (Or whatever you're using) directly? Not a render.


Alucard94, the member of the future of the past.
lazerus
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Posted: 15th Apr 2009 20:50
damm forgot about that, good call give me a moment,



you can see the problem with the arm in the render, second time its been redone, although it looks okay sort of, I stupidly moved the arm without it being on a skeleton so its distorted slightly, I can fix the distortions but its the underlying problems thats bugging me, Ughh ive got a headache so ill work on it some more tonight

Its the best arm Ive ever made! lol

cheers cb

And as the thousands bleed stagnant and scream to plead for their lost memories and questions in a melancholy pain and fear.
So I will crouch down, smile and whisper,
No. //BlooD Right, Book by me
lazerus
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Posted: 17th Apr 2009 12:54 Edited at: 17th Apr 2009 12:56
Heres the havoc after z brush, shes now 14k from 2-4k? not too sure. This is going to be the normal map version, though i thought id take it out of zbrush to check on it and reposition parts of the low poly so theyll match up better when thier done.





I finally got the arms right! I detoured from the tutorial slighty but it ended up better, well in my eyes, I re-replaced the arms in the right position and finished off that god awful elbow,

so any better?

cheers cb

And as the thousands bleed stagnant and scream to plead for their lost memories and questions in a melancholy pain and fear.
So I will crouch down, smile and whisper,
No. //BlooD Right, Book by me
Neodelito
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Posted: 21st Apr 2009 07:56
nice concept.. i wait the finish render...

[url="http://www.3dpoder.com/jaimezegpi/"][/url]
lazerus
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2009 00:18
alot of agro between me a zbrush, it seems that it just dosent want to give me a normal map, Ive uv mapped it, the option is in the tools and no matter how many times i press the button, it just sits thier smugly


heres the latest render anyways
any help on that would be greatly apprecitated, i just get sent round in circles when googling or when am browsing the actual zbrush site. frustrating. irratating. agrovating...

cheers cb

And as the thousands bleed stagnant and scream to plead for their lost memories and questions in a melancholy pain and fear.
So I will crouch down, smile and whisper,
No. //BlooD Right, Book by me
Beast E Gargoyle
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2009 16:17
Will you animate the leg armor/ ruffle when the time comes to give her some life? Also, the visor looks a bit to high on the head for her eyes to be at basic level height.

The Last Great Swordsmen a 3D hack N slash http://lastswordsmen.freezoka.com
lazerus
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2009 17:35
The armour/ruffels will be animated, there goin be like metal/scales type deal, as for the vison its goin be moved, i noticed it original but i still goto add the hair so i thought it could wait.

not much really to update lol jsut tinkering with proportions and trying the normal mapper//well tryin to make it work)

cheers cb

And as the thousands bleed stagnant and scream to plead for their lost memories and questions in a melancholy pain and fear.
So I will crouch down, smile and whisper,
No. //BlooD Right, Book by me
Azunaki
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2009 08:31
hmm.. the lower arms look misshapen in that pic.
lazerus
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2009 17:43
its just the angle, I think

Nah i think is the way i rendered it to get the whole shot in, I take it you mean the way it joins to the hand? if so then it looks okay on other angles.

cb

And as the thousands bleed stagnant and scream to plead for their lost memories and questions in a melancholy pain and fear.
So I will crouch down, smile and whisper,
No. //BlooD Right, Book by me
BiggAdd
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2009 20:52
Quote: "hmm.. the lower arms look misshapen in that pic. "


I would have to agree, I think its the join from the upper arm and forearm.
I think the muscle mass on the forearm needs to be moved up slightly.


Other than that everything else looks good!

Azunaki
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Posted: 24th Apr 2009 04:33
now thinking about it add your right its too rounded at the wrists.
Oolite
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Posted: 24th Apr 2009 13:49 Edited at: 24th Apr 2009 13:49
Nevermind


I'll finish them whenever i can be bothered.

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