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FPSC Classic Product Chat / [LOCKED] Project Blue UM edtion official thread

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s4real
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Posted: 29th Apr 2009 01:53
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Project Blue is staying with the 1.07 source at the moment while we sort out how we going to import everything to the new source.

There has been many issue's trying to import project blue into the new source so we working hard to try and make this happen.

Best s4real

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dumpus
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Posted: 29th Apr 2009 02:07
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I understand it will probably be a challenge...take your time, and best of luck!

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Hockeykid
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Posted: 29th Apr 2009 02:28
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Quote: "Project Blue is staying with the 1.07 source at the moment while we sort out how we going to import everything to the new source.

There has been many issue's trying to import project blue into the new source so we working hard to try and make this happen.

Best s4real"


Alright well i hope you figure it out, all the best!

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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 29th Apr 2009 03:14
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Sorry to hear the v1.15 port isn't going smoothly.

It's really important that you achieve it though and I'm sure with your collective modder hive mind you will do it and make some cash in the process.
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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 29th Apr 2009 04:30
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If V1.15 is the last FPSC update, then I think that this mod is a must-buy for every user of FPSC. There would relly be no excuse to not use it, to be honest twenty bucks is not much. You should see about selling this in the GCS.

"You are not smart! You are very un-smart!"
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Plystire
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Posted: 29th Apr 2009 09:47 Edited at: 29th Apr 2009 09:47
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Quote: "You should see about selling this in the GCS."


I'm sure we'll look into it when that bridge is needing to be crossed.


Right now, we're entirely unsure of what exactly is causing the problem, so what we're left to do is add the Mods into the source.... one feature at a time, until the source of the problem is revealed.

This may take a while, so please be patient with us.


The one and only,


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Scurvy Lobster
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Posted: 29th Apr 2009 10:24 Edited at: 29th Apr 2009 10:25
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Good luck with the porting guys! I hope the little nasty bug reveals itself.

Find it and kill it!

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Hockeykid
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Posted: 29th Apr 2009 14:20
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Maybe its just a problem with dbp. Lee did say there could be bugs.

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s4real
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Posted: 29th Apr 2009 18:25
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Update :
After having many issue's with the v1.15 source I'm keeping Project blue in v1.07 source and adding many of the fixes and features from the v1.15 source.

Sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear but maybe in the future and if I had more time I will add Project Blue to the new source.

Best s4real

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djmaster
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Posted: 29th Apr 2009 19:39
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As long as we have the awesomness of stability and all the mods combined I dont mind.

A.K.A. chargerbandit
http://chargedstudios.fpschost.com/
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Errant AI
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Posted: 29th Apr 2009 19:57
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Would there really be any "improvements" from porting to the 1.15 source other than being compatible with a later version of the editor? The mod is insane already and I've said it before (and will say it again) that some of the official features like headshots is something Airslide or Plystire could do 10X better- in their sleep.

Anyhow, Thanks so much for the full-version. When I get back to FPSC, I know I'll be in heaven.

For fence-sitters out there- I really hope you will shell out for this mod because it will give these guys real incentive to port to later source or add whatever to make it all the better!

Maybe there could be some kind of early adopter scheme where if the mod is ported to 1.15 it will be 3X the current price or something
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djmaster
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Posted: 29th Apr 2009 19:59
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3x bigger price,3x less buyers Maybe 5$ up.

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http://chargedstudios.fpschost.com/
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Errant AI
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Posted: 29th Apr 2009 20:06 Edited at: 29th Apr 2009 20:11
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Only if they wait around.

The idea is for people to buy the current version at the current price and get the update for free if/when it happens. The EA sales would be the incentive these guys need to do the very hard (and not fun!) work of porting and integration.

Nevermind me though. Keep waiting for the messiah- erm, I mean migration

Quote: "3x bigger price,3x less buyers "


Hey- same money though Look at poor Ply for example... He toiled and toiled on Ply's Mod and made what? $80??? That's only four copies! The people who were actually willing to pay for the mod would know it would still be cheap at twice the price and would have likely paid double what they did. Same goes for this Unity Mod only it's worth much(s4mod), much(Ply's Mod), much (Lemur), much (AirMod) more than twice the price.
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john schwarcz
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Posted: 29th Apr 2009 22:00
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does it have ragdoll yet? lol jk. but uch , ragdoll is the only thing inbetween migration and this mod, what should i do?

shadow666
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Scurvy Lobster
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Posted: 29th Apr 2009 22:26
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Quote: "Update :
After having many issue's with the v1.15 source I'm keeping Project blue in v1.07 source and adding many of the fixes and features from the v1.15 source.

Sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear but maybe in the future and if I had more time I will add Project Blue to the new source.

Best s4real"


Dang, I was really looking forward to having the latest updates AND the cool mods. Especially the offical updates that fix savegame bugs are my biggest concern about going back to v1.07. Also the fact that FPSC v1.07 doesn't have an integration of the shop annoys me since I use it regularly. I hope that some of this is portable for you guys.
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Hockeykid
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Posted: 29th Apr 2009 22:32 Edited at: 29th Apr 2009 22:37
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Quote: "Update :
After having many issue's with the v1.15 source I'm keeping Project blue in v1.07 source and adding many of the fixes and features from the v1.15 source.

Sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear but maybe in the future and if I had more time I will add Project Blue to the new source.

Best s4real"


Unfortunately this mod won't work for me then, unless you would be able to add the updated actions and conditions especially the default variable system. Sorry by the way maybe lee can give you a had with porting it.

Edit: my suggestion would be to add 1 of the mods at a time and fix the bugs before adding another if you get what i mean.

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Dar13
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Posted: 29th Apr 2009 22:39
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Quote: "Unfortunately this mod won't work for me then, unless you would be able to add the updated actions and conditions especially the default variable system. Sorry by the way maybe lee can give you a had with porting it."

Why do you want the stock variables? And the script conditions/actions? Ply's Mod is integrated so... I'd buy if I had the cash

...
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Hockeykid
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Posted: 29th Apr 2009 22:42 Edited at: 29th Apr 2009 22:44
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Quote: "Why do you want the stock variables? And the script conditions/actions? Ply's Mod is integrated so... I'd buy if I had the cash"


Because i already have loads of scripts that use the updated things and it would take forever to convert them. Sorry (and other reasons)

Anyway my thoughts of mods that used the v1.07 source code has always been why not replicate the additions from above version.

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meteorite
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Posted: 29th Apr 2009 23:54
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Quote: "You should see about selling this in the GCS.
"


I dont think it will make it into the GCS, mainly because it is an unnoficial mod. How many game design contests have we seen, and the Mod contest hasnt't been stickied.

"I can't imagine what this place would have been like if I hadn't found you here." - BJ Hunnicutt
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Dar13
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 00:45
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@hockeykid: Ahh, ok. I understand now. I've been under the impression that each mod added something Lee wouldn't/couldn't to the stock engine and give the developer just that much more control over his/her projects.*shrugs*

...
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Plystire
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 01:31 Edited at: 30th Apr 2009 01:32
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*Cues Dark Side music*

Come to the Ply Side of the FPI Force, hockeykid!
*Swings his lightsabre around*




@john:

Dude, the migration isn't even out... what's the big decision? Use this until the migration is here.



The one and only,


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Hockeykid
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 01:34 Edited at: 30th Apr 2009 01:34
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Quote: "
*Cues Dark Side music*

Come to the Ply Side of the FPI Force, hockeykid!
*Swings his lightsabre around*
"


Hm that all the depends has plys mod been converted to the strongest force?(in other words has it been ported to v1.15?) and i don't hear any music.

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Airslide
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 02:10
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That sounds rather negative.

Here's my thought - take it or leave it. When you come whimpering back because migration wasn't quite so special we'll still be here (and I'll get more money out of it cause the price will hopefully be higher )

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Hockeykid
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 02:32
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Quote: "That sounds rather negative."


Was that directed towards me?

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john schwarcz
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 02:33
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@ply, ya im gonna when i get the money, but what should i do when migration does come out??? i really need ragdoll in my games

shadow666
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Apple Slicer
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 02:36
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Hockeykid, I emailed you.
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Hockeykid
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 02:48
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Quote: "Hockeykid, I emailed you."


Replied

Anyway back on topic sorry for the spam

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Marc Steene
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 06:10
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Quote: "When you come whimpering back because migration wasn't quite so special"


Who are you to say that? I trust Lee's coding ability 100% and have complete faith in him to produce a good product.

These are the migration features (copied from my thread):



I'd take those features over any mod for X9 any day. Plus the update is free. I'm not attacking your mod or anything, and I'll be buying it when the 1.15 version is released, but I don't think you should call what you haven't yet seen.

Migration Discussion Thread: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
Piracy Discussion Thread:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142774&b=21
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dumpus
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 06:17
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Quote: "@ply, ya im gonna when i get the money, but what should i do when migration does come out??? i really need ragdoll in my games"


...no, you don't. Ragdoll is an extra feature. No game has ever won any award over ragdoll, and they never will. I'd highly suggest worrying about aspects of game design that actually matter, and forget about ragdoll. You've complained about it in countless threads, and if you're really so concerned, buy X10. Though, I'm concerned as to whether or not you'll be allowed to upgrade to the mature patch...

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Airslide
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 06:34 Edited at: 30th Apr 2009 06:36
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And I don't think you should place all your faith in something that's been promised for over a year now.

According to Lee, migration will be based on X10's source with X9's latest upgrades re-implemented into it. That means Dark Physics is a no-no - he mentioned it as a slim possibility, but according to his e-mails X10 still utilizes ODE.

There is no indication that Lemur will be integrated (in fact, Lee has said that migration will NOT initially have any mod features), GPU instancing is a DX10 feature, the score system is easily accomplished with variables, DarkAI is featured in AirMod SE (you'll see a video in about a week), faster loading times/reduced memory consumption is awfully vague, water has been done before (and better, IMO) and EFX has shown X9 can easily compete in the graphics department. LOD is currently possible to implement as it is a recent feature in DBP (and it could be done before that), the only reason I haven't done it is it requires custom media and there hasn't been much demand. The only thing that leaves is ragdolls, which won't be achieved until someone gets a modified version of ODE working and figures out how to tie the limbs to each ODE object - a rather difficult task.

Compare this to the feature list of Project Blue (and this a short version, off the top of my head):

Efficient timer integration (X10's is good for the most part, but buggy with a few things)
Extensive variable system unmatched by the official version
Extended multiplayer features
Numerous new scripting commands that open up loads of potential, this itself should count as a few dozen features as most feature requests can be completed through Ply's Mod scripting (COD4 health, armor, pooled-weapon ammo, spells, inventory)
Tons of weapon expansions that put weaponry capabilities on par with COD4 (ironsights, grenade launchers)
Increased flexibility of existing features
Bug fixes that still haven't made it into the official version (I've reapplied many of them into the 115 source)

The point is, while I do look forward to migration (primarily due to the benefits of a unified code base and the modding potential of some of the features) people are quick to over-hype it. AS soon as it is released you'll STILL be seeing people complaining and requesting new features, many of which will already be possible with Project Blue, AirMod SE or some other major modification. The big things that people point to for migration are mainly aesthetic - ragdolls, bloom, etc. Whereas mods provide extensive gameplay enhancements.

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Plystire
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 06:50 Edited at: 30th Apr 2009 06:52
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I'm glad you responded to that, Airslide, my explanation probably would have been much longer with not much more point to it than what you just mentioned.

Quote: "Hm that all the depends has plys mod been converted to the strongest force?(in other words has it been ported to v1.15?)"


I hope you're not insinuating that it's an easy task to accomplish.

The source has been out for 2 days now... Ply's Mod in itself is 12,000+ lines longer than the V1.07 source.... that means I need to weed out and port THAT MUCH CODE into the new source. On top of that, to ensure everything is working properly, I must test each feature, one at a time, to make sure I don't break things during the process.

Trust me... it's coming, it's just going to take a while.

[EDIT]
"strongest force"??
*sigh* Young padawan, you have much to learn about the FPI Force.



The one and only,
<~~~ Ply's coding helmet

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meteorite
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 07:13
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It's coming, has life gotten out of your way, or did you shove it out?

"I can't imagine what this place would have been like if I hadn't found you here." - BJ Hunnicutt
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john schwarcz
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 07:57
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well i do have x10 already, and i do think ragdoll is a huge part of gameplay, and a simple way to end this hard descision, get blue mod into the migration, its open source, and think how much you could charge for it, people would pay alot for blue mod migration. that there is top notch

shadow666
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Plystire
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 08:11
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Ragdoll is by no means a "gameplay" feature. It is a niceity for visual enhancement and to amke thigns seem a tad more "real". This does not improve the playability of the game at all.

And also, please don't use the word "simple" when referring to merging sources. You obviously have no clue the amount of time it takes to do such a thing.


Look, if it's open-source, chances are high that it'll go in. Now please stop bringing up ragdoll in this thread, we are all well aware that you want it.


The one and only,


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djmaster
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 08:44
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Call of Duty 1,2 didnt have ragdolls,who did you hear complaining? No one,we just need better dying animations for characters.

A.K.A. chargerbandit
http://chargedstudios.fpschost.com/
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Dark Goblin
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 17:41
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@Airslide:
really interessting that you have DarkAI in your Mod... really want to see it.
well, i think we all have to wait

... efxMod Developer!
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djmaster
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 19:12
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We are more interested if we will ever see EFX again.

A.K.A. chargerbandit
http://chargedstudios.fpschost.com/
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Apple Slicer
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 19:20
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Why EFX? That mod is an over priced, and over protected mod, on fierce watch by its development team. I think that This mod, plys mod, and soon Wizzmod, will be the best available.
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djmaster
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 19:36
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You are forgetting Airmod SE.

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http://chargedstudios.fpschost.com/
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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 19:53
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What is the timescale for porting project blue UM to v1.15 source?

Also I hope all the modders will be contributing some of their code to the Open FPSC project.
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john schwarcz
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 19:55
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@ply, i guess your right, its not really playibilty but its fun lol, and thanks because you answered my question about migration, that nobody has really answered yet , about this going into migration, ive gotten yes's and no's but your probably the most reliable source, and sorry i didnt mean simple as in its simple to bind migration and a mod, i understand it is extremly hard
@dj, really?! cd 1 and 2 didnt have ragdoll, i didnt know that thanks
and @ everyone else, buy this mod it is amazing, i am going to when i get the money

shadow666
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Thistle Studios
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 20:07
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Quote: "Ragdoll is by no means a "gameplay" feature. It is a niceity for visual enhancement and to make things seem a tad more "real". This does not improve the playability of the game at all."


The problem is, since critics are now raising their standards past the unfair level, they are beginning to assume every First Person Shooter needs to have fancy visuals, and the most hated word "Realism."

Take Anderson and The Legacy Of Cthulu for example. I read about this game in an issue of PC Zone, and I was disappointed to see the fact that it scored a miserable 14 out of 100. Ive never played it, but I could safely say they said it was rubbish because "It was made with FPS Creator."
Although people are saying ragdolls wont be put into the migration, we need to think about the death system beforehand.
The enemies die like you are felling a tree, and when the leave body script is in effect, you can't move past them, and they look like they have been elasticated to the floor! I believe that is why so many people are hoping the ragdolls will be implemented into the migration, if not then at least an update to make enemies die in a more realistic fashion. If I was shot from behind I wouldn't instantly warp my body to look at my assaliant and then fall backwards.

Quote: "Call of Duty 1,2 didnt have ragdolls,who did you hear complaining? No one,we just need better dying animations for characters. "


You got half of that right. Ive got CoD 2, and in the countless times ive killed enemies with grenades they have flown in a limp fashion. Better dying animations would be just fine.


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Marc Steene
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 21:30
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Quote: "And I don't think you should place all your faith in something that's been promised for over a year now."


As a programmer yourself I would expect you to know that things can take longer than expected, and can run into problems. The reason it's been delayed is due to the X10 users whining about how they weren't recieving updates.

Quote: "That means Dark Physics is a no-no "


Then why did he confirm that Dark Physics would be included in previous emails?

Quote: "here is no indication that Lemur will be integrated "


urlForce confirmed a version of Lemur will be in the Migration

Quote: "GPU instancing is a DX10 feature"


Which can be used in DX10 games. I don't really understand what you meant by that.

Quote: "the score system is easily accomplished with variables"


But not everyone can script. The X10 points system is a lot easier to use.

Quote: "and EFX has shown X9 can easily compete in the graphics department"


EFX is a ridicolously over priced mod with some excellent features. Yes it can compete, but seeming as the migration is free, i think people will pick the free official version over the $200+ or whatever-price-it-is mod.

Quote: "Efficient timer integration "


The migration will have this

Quote: "Extended multiplayer features"


So will the migration

Quote: "Numerous new scripting commands that open up loads of potential, this itself should count as a few dozen features as most feature requests can be completed through Ply's Mod scripting (COD4 health, armor, pooled-weapon ammo, spells, inventory)"


Scripting commands are important so I'll have to agree with you on that. This is one feature of mods which I love.

Quote: "Whereas mods provide extensive gameplay enhancements."


And yet, people will still choose the migration over any mod.

Migration Discussion Thread: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
Piracy Discussion Thread:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142774&b=21
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Dark Goblin
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 21:40 Edited at: 30th Apr 2009 21:41
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its very nice how you talk about efxMod -.-
i really think you should stop talking like this about it, it was not the fault of us, but i said this in the efx Thread!

I am really looking forward to Project Blue, also there is a little chance to get efx in, i am talking with S4 about it.

And you all will see what you have of your behaviour concerning efxMod.
The new version will have some features, you really wanted, we will see how you think about it than!

but this thread is about Project Blue and not efx, so keep up the great work on it.

It will be one of the best things the whole community has done in the past years!

EDIT:
we never said anything about 200$+ -.-
but i will not discuss this here

... efxMod Developer!
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Marc Steene
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 22:08
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Quote: "it was not the fault of us"


Then whose fault was it exactly?

@Dark Goblin

You should take note of what UM has done here - you can have all of the features but cannot build a game. That would be great for EFX mod free version.

Migration Discussion Thread: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142497&b=21
Piracy Discussion Thread:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=142774&b=21
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john schwarcz
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 22:23
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lol guys stop aurguing, i dont know much about efx, but i think we can all agree, both mods are awsome regardless of price

shadow666
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Hockeykid
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 22:53
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Quote: "
It must be stressed that the official V115 version was compiled with a slightly different version of DBP which is developed internally so executables are not guaranteed to be identical on compiling.
"


That was in the newsletter maybe thats the reason for your problems?

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Doomster
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 23:06 Edited at: 30th Apr 2009 23:09
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Quote: "Then whose fault was it exactly?"

The problem was that again everyone was against the Watermark, etc.

And you must know that it's not the first time... it was a big Topic in the german Board, in this Board, and I think they overreacted a bit.

It was also not the first "bad" Thing in this Community... the first efxMod for example was locked without a reason...

However, to come back to the Thread...

Great work S4Real, Ply, Airslide and Urlforce.

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Plystire
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Joined: 18th Feb 2003
Location: Staring into the digital ether
Posted: 1st May 2009 00:54
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Well, since this pertains to the future of Pjroject Blue, I'll say it here:

Porting of Ply's Mod into the V1.15 source is going smoothly. Through the slow process I've found the reasons behind many of the problems with integration. I have shared these with s4real, so hopefully the porting of Project Blue will come that much faster.

Right now, the most issues I've had with the port have come from using DBP's new editor. Undo/Redo commands frequently screw up and completely botch the code, resulting in me needing to reload and do changes again... and in some instances, I've had to open up the V1.15 source next to the port and renew some of V1.15's core programming that was over-written/lost in these screw ups.


All in all, things are going smoothly, but a long testing phase should be expected for this. There are many features that are to be integrated and all of them must be tested.


Until I started porting the FPI commands.... I never really realized just how much I had added.


The one and only,


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Apple Slicer
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Joined: 14th Nov 2008
Location: Oregon, in the rain...
Posted: 1st May 2009 00:57
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Maybe Ply, when Wizzmod gets finished, or worked on a bit more, it could be added to this super mod?
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