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3 Dimensional Chat / another important and advanced question! for all ;) shadow mapping solution?

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neoxxx
17
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Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location:
Posted: 5th Nov 2002 14:49
ok, this can be very usefull

trying 3dsmax 5, i saw that it has a new option called
RENDER TO TEXTURE, with this option, we can export the shadows maps of a "level" to tga; trying the program
CARTOGRAPHY SHOP TRIAL,i saw that the way that it exports
the lights of a level is the same of 3ds max5, it exports
shadow maps to image files, but i have it trial and i dont know
how db pro loads this shadow maps into the level

the question is, there is a way to import these shadowing maps that creates 3ds max 5 in db pro? using a .x exporter for max too, this can be the ultimate and more fast way of create levels with shadow maps fast and more easy,,,using this, we can throw to the trash the bsp editors, because max is more powerfull and we have not to compile the levels
with outdated compilers

help! please
Shadow Robert
17
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 5th Nov 2002 15:39
i think your missing the whole point of BSP ... if you develop a world and export as a DirectX file you're total polygons onscreen at once is the total of that world - for a fairly simple world this would be within the region of 30,000 ... now althought you can just blend map before hand the shadow map onto the textures prior to loading (isn't a simple or easi task within DarkBasic Pro)
i feel the major point here is that the world you've loaded is 30,000 polygons all rendered!

now add this to say 10-15mb of textures which have to be lightmapped indevidually, youre talkin ALOT of system ram, and not quickly done as it has to do this for the ENTIRE level at once.

Whereas BSP you have the Lightmaps AS part of the compile, oftenly much larger resolution to as it doesn't have to worry so much about speed as they are render per portion you are working on - and as generally the onscreen polygons hit the low thousands rather than the mid-high tens of of thousands, this does eleviate alot of pressure from the cpu / graphics card!

Add to this i've not tried but from what i've read you can use Quake3 BSP which actally allows for LOD sections - really isn't much of a comparison!

I think you have to remember that when you decide to cut corners in one area of the game you will pay for it later, a games graphics should always be the LOWEST prioroity - becuase you get the speed which is left over ... not first dibs, and i'm really getting tired of explaining this to you.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
neoxxx
17
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Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location:
Posted: 5th Nov 2002 15:55
yeah, you are right;but in this case i am working
in a type of game levels like super mario sunshine or jack and daxter where you can see all the world at the same time,
and i dont like bsp, because the editors of bsp except radiant m dont allow concave surfaces and i dont like to make square levels...

how cam i make these blend between the normal texture and the shadow map? ihave to load the objects one by one and
apply the textures by hand?

(correct me raven, but i think that the games that i mentioned dont use shadow maping for the levels, only a general light for all the textures... i realized that making
all this shadows in an uge map have to be very dificult,
but someone have do done it! jeje thanks

Shadow Robert
17
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 5th Nov 2002 21:22
Actually in the games you've mentioned, although they may not use BSP - they'll still have a pretty similar Visible Triangle Culling routine, which will no doubt have been pre-compiled before hand.
As for the shadows, they're either done using stecil buffer or a pre-calculated lightmap ... please understand that shadows for worlds ARE NOT shadowmaps, because shadowmap retains to the shadow underneath the character/world objects which are usually simple circles or squares which are blended onto the worlds texture.

Lightmaps are what are combined with the textures which give colour and shadow/light to worlds based upon the Ambient Light... they are the best way to save processor speed from using Point Lights, which you can use however more than 8 and really you'll need a very powerful graphics card! Also it should be noted that you calculate the Lightmaps from the Current world light points and not the 3d packages light points because it will not produce the results you require for a game world!

With all of this you are just jumping into the deep end and there really isn't much point - i mean these are sorts of things that should be asked about ONCE you have a working demonstration version of what the game is. Even then should be thought of as upgrades.

If you are serious about adding these things then there are plenty of C/C++ tutorials for them, if you can't adapt them or understand atleast the concepts to develop your own then i'd forget about it!

To be honest i haven't much of a clue of kind of game you are going for which requires the Vis of an Outdoor style game, the bump mapping and pixel textureing of Doom3 and Lightmapping to boot.

I would suggest you carefully develop each feature you wish to include using online tutorials as a base, THEN possibly add them all together - but to me unless you're one diva of a coder (which i'm highly doubting right now) there isn't a chance in hell this'll run on anything but my rendering machine ... i don't think many people have the better half of $5k to spend just to play your game!

You haven't even displayed any work here yet ... which kinda makes me even more wary about giving you any sound advice or true code to work with, no point in giving the man the muel for his cart if he doesn't have the reigns to control it!

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!

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