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Game Design Theory / Text Adventure Comp 2009?

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Plotinus
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Posted: 25th Dec 2009 15:32 Edited at: 25th Dec 2009 16:13
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An IF engine is a program or language which is specially dedicated to creating text games. See here and here for some comments on these. By far the most commonly used today are Inform and TADS, which are basically programming languages similar to C++ but which have built in parsers, which are considered state-of-the-art. Other popular ones include Hugo, Adrift, and various others, some of which are more like "construction kits" than languages.

There already exist annual competitions within the Interactive Fiction community for game writing, in which almost all the participants use these dedicated systems. So the purpose of this rule is simply to say that you can't use them and must instead use a TGC language or system to create your game with. Rather like if there were a competition to make a FPS game, which had a rule saying you couldn't use FPSC.
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Dazzag
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Posted: 29th Dec 2009 13:24 Edited at: 29th Dec 2009 13:31
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Quote: "If so lets make it for Post 2009 and leave the 2010 Comp for Matt"
Fair enough; I have been well busy with projects and planning getting married etc so haven't progressed with anything since my last post. I still didn't get anything back from my email to Matt though (I didn't want to do anything without his approval). Anyone heard from him lately?

As for judging and the like, I think I still have the completed spreadsheet from last years competition (along with the other judges marks and comments) if you think it will help your planning of the competition.

Quote: "There already exist annual competitions within the Interactive Fiction community for game writing, in which almost all the participants use these dedicated systems. So the purpose of this rule is simply to say that you can't use them and must instead use a TGC language or system to create your game with. Rather like if there were a competition to make a FPS game, which had a rule saying you couldn't use FPSC"
Yeah, I think that sort of thing was discussed in the last few competitions. Overall sharing code seemed ok (eg. nicer text input routines and the like) but a language that wasn't TGC was rejected (some code had to be provided to the judges I believe, or at least to Matt), and IF engines were deffo out, although if I remember rightly there was some discussion last year about in the future allowing a seperate category as the story was more important (not everyone thought this way) than the game itself. Problem is then it is likely for everyone to jump on an IF engine and TGC tools to be ignored. And with prizes coming from TGC then it didn't really work, plus as you said the main IF competition has been running for years. Heh, for the last 2 years at least someone mentions entering the top games into the IF competition, but it never seemed to happen. Although I think if last years winner was polished up a bit and expanded then it could be a contender.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
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Old But Still Kickin
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Posted: 29th Dec 2009 15:06
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Why Not Try One Of Those Choose Your Own Adventure Kind of Thing.

Na!!!!! To Easy

oh well

Is this going to be a themed kind of comp. or is it open?

Never give up trying. Just try it another way that works for you.
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Plotinus
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Posted: 29th Dec 2009 19:22
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Quote: "Heh, for the last 2 years at least someone mentions entering the top games into the IF competition, but it never seemed to happen. Although I think if last years winner was polished up a bit and expanded then it could be a contender. "


Well, one of the rules of the IF competition is that entries cannot have been posted or published anywhere before being entered, so that would rule out anything that's already been entered in a competition here - although of course someone could adapt the engine of an entry here to produce a new game, I suppose.
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Dazzag
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Posted: 30th Dec 2009 09:29
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Quote: "Well, one of the rules of the IF competition is that entries cannot have been posted or published anywhere before being entered"
Dunno, been a few years since I had a look there. Easy to get round though. Either enter the IF competition first (then DB competition which has no such rule) or alter the game a bit I would have thought. Not exactly a deal breaker though. Normally the IF engined games are technically a lot better, so there is really no point competing. It's not surprising as they have been around for years and are geared totally towards making an IF game where TGC products have nothing special for IF games and are created normally from nothing in only a couple of months. At least with the IF engine you normally only have to really worry about the story and the puzzles. Although a constantly evolving TGC engine over several of these competitions could be interesting. Last year we were hoping this year would provide much improved versions of some of the games that showed the most potential.

Quote: "Why Not Try One Of Those Choose Your Own Adventure Kind of Thing"
That's pretty much what most of our entries are. Most people come into this competition and think it's easy compared to a "Big brown matrix with cell shaded figures from model pack 15 TM" game, but it has hidden complexities to do a full parser based game. If you look at games like Gnome Ranger (Level 9 are a good company to check out) then the parser can be amazingly complex. I remember being amazed how many real sentences were translated and acted on correctly. Because of this then I think a lot of people go down the multiple choice route. Nothing wrong with that and it has the advantage of being a lot easier to make a linear game, which will obviously allow you to make the story a lot more important. Essentially it seems in general that parser based games have simpler stories and are less like a book, but are better games and pull you more into the world as part of the game, whereas multiple choice games have better stories more like a book (that pulls you in like a book), but are worse games with inferior puzzles. Although there is nothing worse that a parser based game where you cannot progress because the parser isn't good enough. If "Light torch with match" is the only way to proceed and "Set fire to torch with match" or "Use match or torch" doesn't work, then it will be well annoying.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
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marlou
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 03:12 Edited at: 6th Jan 2010 03:26
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Hi TechLord,

I found your Text Comp Post. Its a bit lost.. Hehe..
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=140901&b=30

I wanna join if the comp is on.. Hehe..But sadly i think only few people are interested..

When a person has nothing but a dream, can he dare to dream.
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TechLord
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 08:50 Edited at: 17th Jan 2010 08:24
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hi marlou,

That's my [href=http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=140901&b=30
]sandbox thread[/href] I use to test TGC forum formatting, hehe.

Unfortunately, there is little interest. I personally think the rules are a little stiff particularly having just two technical categories and rule #5. IMO, as long as game is made with TGC products and is conveyed thru descriptive text that explains what the character is seeing and doing it should qualify. Additionally, no one has volunteered to judge and I would like to participate. Oh well, I offered.

I'm gonna just focus on the Super 3D Game Engine for now.

Super 3D Game Engine (S3GE) - The Ultimate All-in-1 3D Game Engine in development with Dark GDK.
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Dazzag
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 13:49
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I think if you want to host an un-official version, and considering Matt seems AWOL, then go for it with a proper thread in this forum. It might also be worth checking with TGC themselves if they will give some prizes and stickying the compo thread like they did with Matts. It may be worth stating that previous entries are welcome as long as they have been enhanced. We were hoping that a couple of the games from last year would appear this year in much improved form for example.

Personally I will volunteer to judge if you want. I did it last year and really enjoyed it. I would put on the whole compo if it wasn't for lack of time at the minute. I think I still have all the notes on how we scored games last year, so that should help if you want it. We had quite a few different areas to score on, and it worked out quite well. You might want to email Jeku too as he was the other judge last year (along with Matt) as he may be interested too.

Don't be too disheartened about lack of interest. Last year I think we only had about 5 or 6 entries. It's never that big here. Supplying some example code and stickying the compo thread can help.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
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Libervurto
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Posted: 7th Jan 2010 22:22
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@TechLord
I think no one responded because it was near christmas.
I want to enter and I didn't realise you made a thread.

"With games, we create these elaborate worlds in our minds, and the computer is there to do the bookkeeping." - Will Wright
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entomophobiac
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 09:00
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I would gladly revamp Relic a little, if I can find the time. Not committing at this time, however.
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Dazzag
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 15:26
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Was that the one in space?

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
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entomophobiac
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Posted: 11th Jan 2010 16:06
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Yep. The one in space. After sending it, I realized that a lot of the systems that were coded in DBP weren't exposed in the Lua script, so a revamp wouldn't really be that much work -- just Lua scripting and writing, really.
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thenerd
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Posted: 13th Jan 2010 23:18
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so someone else actually uses the same avatar! yay. I had some good ideas for a nice text rpg, but I really dont have the time to code it...

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Dared1111
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Posted: 14th Jan 2010 12:33
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Let's do one. I didn't know the thread was there, Techlord.

Signature? There is no signature!
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entomophobiac
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Posted: 15th Jan 2010 13:30
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I've been thinking about a regular questing game, like the Diablos and Torchlights out there, in text. With some more humor to it.
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Dazzag
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Posted: 15th Jan 2010 13:46
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Go for it. If I weren't so busy I would dust off that MUD from 2 years ago

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
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Plotinus
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Posted: 15th Jan 2010 13:49
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Quote: "I've been thinking about a regular questing game, like the Diablos and Torchlights out there, in text. With some more humor to it."


I think that would be great. I've been thinking hard about how one might adapt ideas from other game genres, such as sandbox RPGs, into text form. It is not easy but it could be very interesting.

There's an interesting take on Choose Your Own Adventure style games at http://www.choiceofgames.com/dragon/ - it's a lot of fun, and a game of this kind would not be difficult to do in Dark Basic at all.
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entomophobiac
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Posted: 15th Jan 2010 14:59
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The prototype stuff I did some years ago included real-time updates and a window for treating NPCs. So NPCs would actually talk casually with each other and you could target them and talk to them at any time.

It also had a very simple map system for travelling.

Obviously never finished it, however.
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