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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Just got DBP, and it can't compile anything! please help out!

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Cash Curtis III
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Posted: 18th Aug 2003 16:02
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Yesterday, I got DarkBASIC pro. I tryed testing a few of the included samples, but when I press f5 to compile all I get is "this program has peformed an illigal operation" window. Same for when i try to write my own code. Does anyone know wats going on?

thanks
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 18th Aug 2003 16:16
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Nope.

Do you have DX9.0b ? The latest graphic drivers, and a decent card ?


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Cash Curtis III
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Posted: 18th Aug 2003 16:34
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errr..no and no

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 18th Aug 2003 16:54
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Could that be the problem then ?


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Posted: 18th Aug 2003 17:24
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plus you need to upgrade to patch 4.1 and get the ide updates or it will crash all the time, so, upgrade the drivers, upgrade directx, upgrade pro, upgrade the ide, then you should have no problems, although this isn`t always the case but you can post back if it isn`t , also it`s a good idea to stash the updates on a cd for future reference, you may need to re-install occasionaly, cheers.

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Cash Curtis III
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Posted: 18th Aug 2003 19:27
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reinstall occasionaly? I was told i would get huge framerates, and easier game making but instead this is even more screwed on my pc then DBclassic. Well thanks anyway, ill do just that. But i wanted to ask, do i have to get all the previous patches before i get patch 4?

Thanks

p.s i got directX 8 in cluded on the DBP cd, and now i need 9? Can all video cards support directx 9? Just asking.

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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 18th Aug 2003 20:06
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Quote: "
I was told i would get huge framerates, and easier game making
"


erm, that's marketing hype. You may run really well on your system, then again, it may not also.


Quote: "
But i wanted to ask, do i have to get all the previous patches before i get patch 4?
"


Nah you don't need to install the previous patches to install P4.1.


Quote: "
p.s i got directX 8 in cluded on the DBP cd, and now i need 9? Can all video cards support directx 9? Just asking.
"


Yes, you will need to install DirectX 9 if you wish to use patch 5 when it's released.. (they say, in a few days time)

Kevin Picone
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the_winch
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Posted: 18th Aug 2003 20:33
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Since you computer doesn't have directx 8.1 installed I am guessing that you have an old system. Sometimes dbpro doesn't get on too well with old grafics cards. My kyro II card broke and I am using a tnt2 at the moment. Most dbpro games are running at 10% of the speed they used too. If you have old hardware you may have to stick with dbc or upgrade.
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Eddie Gordo
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Posted: 18th Aug 2003 20:39
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I get decent framerates on my comp.

P3 650mhz
128meg ram
Geforce 4 mx440 Se(or sumthin like a low end card...)

thats my slow computer and i get good speeds...i bet u could get a new geforce 4 card for cheep mine was 30$ 4 months ago.

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Cash Curtis III
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Posted: 19th Aug 2003 03:52
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err..ur are saying thats slow??? i have
P2 300mhz
192 RAM
ATI rage 2 card (4mb video memory)
Win 98

the reason u get good speeds is cause, THATS NOT A SLOW PC. Man some ppl are just spoiled. I would do anything for a p3. My freind has , nfact, an old crappy 486 of some kind that has trouble runnin wolfenstein 3d.

@uwdesign: no it wasent marketing, it was ppl on the forums who use DBP


thanks ill go get the patch and see wat happens

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CloseToPerfect
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Posted: 19th Aug 2003 05:29
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I don't think you can run much of anything with that v.card, your going to have to upgrade it, 300 mhz with a good card, might work but there probably be so much memory bottleneck that it's going to have very low frame rates.
I have a 500mhz with a 8meg ATI 256 meg ram and it won't run most of the programs people post, I can program some sprite base games for it but 3d games are just unplayable with the slow framerate.
Your big problem will be getting a good PCI v.card (I'm guessing you don't have a AGP port in that computer.)

CTP
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Posted: 19th Aug 2003 13:24
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why did you buy it with a graphics card like that?, it says on the site front page (under system requirments)

pII 300 mhz with dx compatable graphics card AND AT LEAST 8MB MEMORY, you have HALF the MINIMUM video memory you require, your only option is to hop down to PC World or Argos and get yourself a cheap video card (3D) with some memory on it, because basicaly that card is ...er...well..not very good (at all), you should be able to get a reasonable 3d card for about £30, but first make sure you have either a agp slot or a spare pci slot to plug it into.

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Cash Curtis III
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Posted: 19th Aug 2003 15:31
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I'm already getting a radeon 9200 in september. When i do, do i have to change any of my other hardware for it to work?

thanks

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Posted: 19th Aug 2003 17:05 Edited at: 19th Aug 2003 17:11
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if the Radeon fits and works then you should be sorted, you will need to download the patches as well though, I think they are still at version 1.0 on the cd, it has way to many bugs, just download patch 4.1 (or maybe 5 by the time you get the card) and that should sort out the compiler, I THINK that patch 4.1 includes the editor updates too, but not sure about that, I install the IDE updates and patch by script so I don`t know, does anybody else know?, I know the p5 beta updated the editor keywords, so maybe the patches update the IDE now, they used to need you to download the IDE updates off the download page, wouldn`t hurt to make sure, you will find that a decent video card can make a HUGE difference to the speed of games or DB on your PC, when I had my p300 I swapped from the "came with PC" so called 3D video card to a tnt2 and the difference was awesome, I had demos off coverdisks that either wouldn`t run or ran so slow it was a joke, with the tnt they all ran at playable rates, I was running Unreal, Halflife, Quake II, Q3, Unreal tourney, all at playable speeds, I even had Black and White and it ran, (clunky in places but it ran), without a decent 3d card all that render work gets given to the cpu, that has to provide the results back to the video card in time for the next frame and run the game at the same time, no wonder with a poor card framerates are 1 or 3 fps, with a decent card all the cpu has to do is run the game and send changes to the video card, the card takes care of the rest, so the framerate goes up 20/40x, don`t forget dx9.0b either, you might want to get a PC gamer or whatever your local magazine is, and install dx9 off that, faster and easier than downloading, they normaly have the latest dx on the disk, cheers.

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Guyon
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Posted: 19th Aug 2003 18:50
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I am not sure a new graphics card will work on your 300.

I tred to install one on my old 300 PC and it failed. Also tried to install DBpro on my old 2nd PC so I could work upstairs, and could not get it to work at all on a 300 with a 4 meg graphics card.
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Posted: 19th Aug 2003 19:48
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Guyon: theres no reason it won`t if he has an agp slot (my p300 did) ...or a pci slot if his existing card is pci and IS a card and not an onboard chipset thing, worst he may have to do is play about with the bios a bit.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 19th Aug 2003 20:00
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Quote: "ATI rage 2 card (4mb video memory)"


DarkBASIC Professional REQUIRES an 8MB Direct3D Card...
you can pick one up at your local CompUSA for like $15 for a GeForce2mx 400 32MB - if you're willing to spend upto $25 you can get a GeForce4mx 440/460 SE 64MB

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Ian T
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Posted: 20th Aug 2003 00:13
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' THATS NOT A SLOW PC. Man some ppl are just spoiled.'

Wrong. Some people are used to having good computers. Quite frankly, your computer is an antique more suited for a window display than running programs. Eddie's PC is extremely slow by today's standards as it is. I have a 1ghz system and that is rather slow by gaming standards. High-end gamers are running 2ghz+ systems these days.

--Mouse

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Posted: 20th Aug 2003 00:31
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hmm @Mouse, I don`t know about extremley slow, there aren`t that many titles out that it wouldn`t run, only the up`n`coming Doom III, you could run anything else on a 600mhz, maybe not at pro gamer speeds, but then pro gamers don`t have 600mhz machines, it`s still well within limits for most commercial games, RTCW 400mhz, Black and White 350mhz, conquest frontier wars 350mhz, Halflife p133+, Gunman Chronicles p233 (odd that), Homeworld P200, just pulled those off the shelf, thats what the commercial coders are aiming for as a target machine, you have to remember we are enthusiast techheads with machines to match (for the most part ), driven to make our DB creations go as fast as possible , 600mhz is above the target machines the commercial games people are aiming for, so they obviously have demographics that say p300 is the norm, not 1ghz.

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Shock
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Posted: 20th Aug 2003 00:43 Edited at: 20th Aug 2003 00:44
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i agree - about the p2 300 being an antique (i never knew dbc would run on that properly, nevermind dbp lol)

but you definately need a graphics card update.
my current computer:
P3 450
256 megs sdram
nvidia tnt2 32mb
runs all dbp programs, but some run very slow (iv'e never had a program over 30fps, "real games" are lucky to get anymore than 15fps).

i'm upgrading though, im buying a geforce 4 mx440se 64mb ddr. since its pci though, it actually costs a bit, if i had an agp slot i'd be getting an even better card. i hope this bosts my fps a little, and is worth the buy


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Ian T
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Posted: 20th Aug 2003 01:36
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'there aren`t that many titles out that it wouldn`t run'

There are no new titles it would run well . Minimum system requirments will be up way above that in not too long... I'm already below the current recommended level with 1ghz.

--Mouse

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 20th Aug 2003 01:52
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Pentium2 300Mhz is only antiquated if you buy brand new games...
i still proudly own a Pentium2 266Mhz and with a GeForce2mx it run Black&White at a fantastic speed

the problem with games isn't the hardware, but the fact that developers never PUSH to actually get the best performance they can from the hardware, and infact the quicker the industry moves the lazier developers get.

Quake ran on a 486 Dx4/100Mhz w/8mb Ram w/1mb VGA Card
Quake2 ran on a Pentium 166mhz w/16mb Ram w/2mb VGA Card (if you had a 3D Accelerator then you could push it at 133mhz)
Quake3 ran on a Pentium 233mhz mmx w/16mb Ram w/4mb OpenGL Card

each games engine was actually not particularly more demanding than the last, only really the polycounts & texture sizes were upped.
They all only showed around 1,000 polygons per scene for the BSP & another 300-800 for the characters & 50-450 for the weapons.

these games however were very well developed and some of the most optimised on the market... even so even John Carmack admitted that actual 3D Engines for Quake2 and Quake3 started relying more on pure hardware acceleration to get better graphics and results than through optimised programming.

most DirectX developers don't even bother with optimisation, they take one look at what the Radeon & GeForce cards can do and think "Sod everyone without one!"
This is why i prefer console developers, they always have to truely push what they're code can do - PC Developers have always relied far far too much on the hardware available to them.

Quote: "nvidia tnt2 32mb
runs all dbp programs, but some run very slow (iv'e never had a program over 30fps, "real games" are lucky to get anymore than 15fps)."


ironically a P2-266Mhz w/GeForce256 w/128Mb Ram will run most DBP programs far faster... simply because of the reasons i said above.

i mean the true sense of this is the fact that i recently changed my P2 system from a Savage4 Pro to a GeForce4 4200ti now with most games it'll outperform my laptop which is an 800mhz Althon Mobile w/Radeon Mobility 32Mb w/256Mb Ram... it even runs at 3x the bus speed.

there is more to what card you have with games now than what processor you have really - however saying that, a P2-266Mhz will outperform a Celeron 600Mhz Processor ... you wanna know what?
because Celerons have 96kb cache compared to the 256kb cache of the Pentium2.

but games developers never put that on the box do they? the fact that Celerons and Durons will NOT produce even close to the same results as thier big brothers.

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MasterInsan0
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Posted: 20th Aug 2003 02:01
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One thing you have to make sure of, with older computers, is that you keep them in very good shape. Otherwise, you will definitely lose some performance that would make you spend money for a new computer. You need to, for example:

-Defragment often (once a month if you rarely modify any files yourself).
-Scandisk occasionally (unless you run XP with a NTFS file system).
-Keep a lot of HD space open. At least 1 GB if possible.
-Have a good bit of RAM, or at least close all background programs before gaming (except for a select few, which depends on OS).
-Scan for viruses often (you never know how much memory they may be eating sending your entire family copies of itself).

Those tips should really help keep performance up. I had a 1 GHz computer that could barely run Half-Life with a GeForce 4 MX 420 PCI. Why? I didn't take very good care of it. My 2.13 GHz with a GeForce FX 5200 I take much better care of .

If you happen to be able to save up about $400, you should be able to buy or construct a decent computer, probably above the 1.5 GHz mark. Although, unless you already have the cash, you might as well save up about $800 and get a really decent computer. My 2.13 GHz cost me about $1080 ($1000 for the computer, $80 for the GFX card upgrade from GeForce 4 MX 440).

One more thing: if you do get a new computer, make sure it has an AGP slot. Believe it or not, some of these computers STILL do not have AGP slots, or the makers are too cheap to get a Mobo with one on there. If you buy a cheaper $400-or-so priced computer, be absolutely sure, because you're getting the cheapest of the cheap with those.

My friends' and my website for DBPro Programming:
http://unseenstudios.netfirms.com
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Cash Curtis III
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Posted: 20th Aug 2003 04:19
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Well as I said I am gettig a new video card for my bday in sept, and my limit is a 130 $ I have chosen a Radeon 9200 but wanted to ask if that kindo of card (considering if i have an AGP slot) would run on my current computer. If not please give me some sujestions cause i dont want to buy a cheap 25 $ geforce MX but a really good card that would last me for a long time and allow me to at least make games in DBP and or DB and at least more then 4 fps (ok ALOT more)

thanks

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Cash Curtis III
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Posted: 20th Aug 2003 04:22
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@MasterInsan0: good point there, i dont think I been keeping my pc that healthy, although i do have still 7 GB out of 20 GB left. But unfortunatly my C:/ drive looks like a rats ass.

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