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Geek Culture / Going to get into iPhone Dev... any suggestions?

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JoelJ
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Posted: 26th Jun 2009 10:10
I've been thinking about getting into iPhone development for quite some time now, and I'm 90% sure I'm going to just bite the bullet and buy me a mac tomorrow and get started.
I know a few people here at least dabble with the iPhone SDK, I was wondering if you guys have any suggestions for me. Like, good Obj-C/iPhone SDK tutorials.
I'm not a newbie to programming by any means, I know C#, Java, C++, and PHP, and I know them well. I've glanced through Obj-C source, and it looks... well, hideous. But I think it's just a matter of getting used. Anyway... any suggestions of where to start? ways to design/develop? etc.

Thanks

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Jeku
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Posted: 27th Jun 2009 06:54
You're right--- objective-C is nothing short of hideous. There are ways to use C and C++ for your games, but none of the tutorials help with that.

If you're going to make a game, I suggest Google'ing cocos2d-iphone. It's a great game API and I used it extensively for WordTrix.

That C++ Nerd
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Posted: 27th Jun 2009 08:00
Seriously, I'd very much appreciate some new iPhone apps. You'd really blow people away if you developed an app for saving downloaded files easy. I've left the world of programming for personal reasons, but I'm 100% rooting for you! I'm sure if I had a Mac I'd be doing the same thing.

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Travis Gatlin
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Posted: 28th Jun 2009 19:21 Edited at: 28th Jun 2009 19:30
there is a way you can make an app on windows look it up it is called adventure maker http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=adventure+maker+download&aq=0&oq=adventure+maker&aqi=g10 although the apps r 2D but u make several games for several
systems even PSP!.
Quote: "cocos2d-iphone"
how does that work?

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Jimmy
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Posted: 28th Jun 2009 19:41
Quote: "Quote: "cocos2d-iphone"
how does that work?"


Quote: "It's a great game API"


Or put simpler, it's like Dark GDK, but for iphone development.

NaGaFailMo.
Darkowen
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Posted: 29th Jun 2009 01:22
Try out the Android OS by google! quite similar to Iphone but works on windows and has a great OS emulator


Download the beta at http://www.evilpigeon.co.uk
JoelJ
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Posted: 29th Jun 2009 01:59
Quote: "Try out the Android OS by google! quite similar to Iphone but works on windows and has a great OS emulator"

well, I would (and probably will)
but I don't have an Android device and i do have an ipod touch, and also iphone is much more popular, so if I were to make something of value and would want to sell it, I'd have more luck with an iPhone app at the moment.

Quote: "suggest Google'ing cocos2d-iphone."

ok. Thanks for the suggestion That will be good, because I was going to start with a 2d game.
Jeku, have you use SIO2 at all? It seems to be a really nice 3d engine. I was going to check it out. Do you know anything about it?

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Jeku
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Posted: 29th Jun 2009 03:20 Edited at: 29th Jun 2009 03:21
Quote: "Jeku, have you use SIO2 at all? It seems to be a really nice 3d engine. I was going to check it out. Do you know anything about it?"


Hmm, I've never heard of that. I'll take a look, thanks!

There's also EDGELIB for the "cost" route. This engine apparently works across many different mobile platforms including iPhone and iPod Touch. The engine also supports games for Windows. I've downloaded the trial but haven't tested it out yet.

EDGELIB was used to make some ngmoco games

JoelJ
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2009 22:08
Jeku, do you know of any really good tutorials for cocos2d? I've looked around, I saw a few here and there, but nothing that seemed really awesome.

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Jeku
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2009 23:07
@JoelJ - Yah, I used this one:

http://monoclestudios.com/cocos2d_whitepaper.html

It's basically to get you up and running at first. Make sure you use the same version as in the tutorial or it probably won't work!

After that I used some of the sample projects for reference, but mainly figured a lot of the stuff out from the API documentation.

Good luck!

heyufool1
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2009 06:04
Try out the Unity3d iphone thinger. I don't think you need a mac either

https://store.unity3d.com/shop/
Although it cost $400...


Use Google first... it's not rocket surgery!
JoelJ
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2009 08:19
Quote: "I don't think you need a mac either "

yes you do. and I've looked into it. It's quite awesome, but very expensive.

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heyufool1
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2009 18:33
Quote: "yes you do. and I've looked into it. It's quite awesome, but very expensive."

Oh ok, I wasn't sure because Unity3d you can use windows but they didn't seem to have much information on the iphone... at least none that I could find.


Use Google first... it's not rocket surgery!
Roxas
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2009 18:45
Irrlicht has IPhone OpenGL device. I dunno how good it is, but it is in SVN

dab
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Posted: 4th Jul 2009 00:17
While we're here with this topic, do you need to pay the license/developer fee to test it on your own iPod/iPhone? Or do you only need to pay it to let Apple review/upload it to the App Store?

I really don't get what the point of the fee is if you can download the API.

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JoelJ
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Posted: 5th Jul 2009 01:44
Quote: "do you need to pay the license/developer fee to test it on your own iPod/iPhone? Or do you only need to pay it to let Apple review/upload it to the App Store?"


I've heard that you need to pay it to debug on your own iphone. Also it gives you the ability to submit your apps to the app store, and gives you access to different resources, from what I've been told.

Quote: "Oh ok, I wasn't sure because Unity3d you can use windows but they didn't seem to have much information on the iphone... at least none that I could find."

What it does is it uses what they call a crosscompiler using Mono. It takes the mono "compiled" code and pretty much converts it to code that the iPhone SDK can work with. It's actually quite interesting. I've been reading up on cross compiling and it seems quite awesome.

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Jeku
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Posted: 5th Jul 2009 03:15
Quote: "While we're here with this topic, do you need to pay the license/developer fee to test it on your own iPod/iPhone? Or do you only need to pay it to let Apple review/upload it to the App Store?

I really don't get what the point of the fee is if you can download the API."


The SDK is free, but the only way to test on ANY iPod/iPhone is to pay the $99 fee. This fee is also required to submit apps as JoelJ has said. The SDK comes with a free emulator but it obviously doesn't handle tilt.

Raybrite2
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Posted: 5th Jul 2009 13:03
Just heard about an 11 year old boy and his 9 year old brother that made the Math app for I-phone or I-pod. It is #13 on the Paid Educational list now.
Guess if they can do it, you can also. Go For it.
Roxas
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Posted: 5th Jul 2009 15:51
The thing is that IPhone idio-- i mean customers, buy anything from the store. All the apps i see there are pointless really. Not forgetting the Bloated OS that prevents emulating on great hardware.

David R
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Posted: 5th Jul 2009 16:04 Edited at: 5th Jul 2009 16:06
Quote: "Not forgetting the Bloated OS that prevents emulating on great hardware."


What the heck are you talking about?

- You're not allowed to emulate other platforms on the iPhone itself because it's against the licence

- The emulator and content for running apps/the iPhone OS on x86 machines is about 1GB. That's far from bloated considering it contains a ton of other stuff

- Great hardware? In what?

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Roxas
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Posted: 5th Jul 2009 18:19 Edited at: 5th Jul 2009 18:22
David R, iPhone hardware has lot of potential for different apps, its much better than PSP or DS. It is about the same as Open Pandora.

If you ever developed for iPhone you would know that the OS takes up too much resources slowing down your application making applications really slow.

More info here.

It is true emulation is illegal within iPhone tho. And iPhone dev is great for money making by its casual applications and customers.

Jeku
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Posted: 5th Jul 2009 19:36 Edited at: 5th Jul 2009 19:43
Quote: "The thing is that IPhone idio-- i mean customers, buy anything from the store."


I wouldn't call them ALL idiots, as I have bought lots of games that are worth their $0.99 or $1.99 price tags (Peggle for $0.99?).

But a crude factor of the app store is you can create the BEST game in your genre, and it will not sell if nobody reviews the game, or if not enough people buy it when it's first released and appears on the New tab. It will fall to the bottom, while the stupid apps like iFart will keep rising (sales perpetuate sales etc.)

EDIT:

Quote: "If you ever developed for iPhone you would know that the OS takes up too much resources slowing down your application making applications really slow."


Interesting I have NEVER had a problem or seen a problem where the OS is "taking up too much resources" and thus slowing down the app. It's entirely up to the developer to make the code as efficient and tight as possible. There are games that look and play jaw dropping on the device (Zen Bound and Rolando comes to mind). Your justification is based on a single article, written by someone who clearly wants to justify his GP2X purchase over his iPod Touch purchase

David R
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Posted: 5th Jul 2009 19:52 Edited at: 5th Jul 2009 19:53
Quote: "
But a crude factor of the app store is you can create the BEST game in your genre, and it will not sell if nobody reviews the game, or if not enough people buy it when it's first released and appears on the New tab. It will fall to the bottom, while the stupid apps like iFart will keep rising (sales perpetuate sales etc.)"


Being fair to the App Store though (although I agree it's rubbish), that principle is applicable to every outlet of entertainment. The (crappy) stuff that appeals to the common denominator annoyingly eclipses all the brilliant/less well known stuff.

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Roxas
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Posted: 5th Jul 2009 19:59
Quote: "Your justification is based on a single article, written by someone who clearly wants to justify his GP2X purchase over his iPod Touch purchase"


True dat.

NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 6th Jul 2009 00:35 Edited at: 6th Jul 2009 00:37
I should think the iPhone OS should be pretty fast seeing as it can't do multitasking beyond a few limited features. I doubt it has protected memory. I would hardly call it an OS because it lacks so many features considered standard in OSes. Such as a filebrowser. Or multitasking. It has an app launcher. But I don't think an app launcher constitues an OS.

David R
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Posted: 6th Jul 2009 00:38 Edited at: 6th Jul 2009 00:38
Quote: "I doubt it has protected memory. "


Err, it would be pretty messed up if it didn't, considering most of the kernel and basic services are from Darwin/OS X

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 6th Jul 2009 00:40 Edited at: 6th Jul 2009 00:41
If it were truly running on the OS X kernel, I think multitasking would exist because most of the work would already be done. Sure, it has libraries compatible with the OS X Cocoa/Carbon whatever but I doubt much code is identical between the systems. It'd be a huge waste of resources to be running a full blown OS X subsystem on a phone although that might explain the battery life...

Windows CE is kinda like full desktop Windows, but it's not. It has libraries that function similarly but they're not the same libraries.

David R
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Posted: 6th Jul 2009 00:46 Edited at: 6th Jul 2009 00:54
It is running the OS X kernel: Darwin. It's simply compiled for ARM. It may also be slimmed down quite a bit, but I highly doubt it would lose memory protection (or any other low level functionality) in the process, especially since it keeps so many other capabilities (wireless/networking stack etc.)

Hence why the iPhone has the exact same UNIX/POSIX structure etc. on a file and hardware level. It's the same thing.

EDIT: Not having multitasking is not proof or indication it isn't the same codebase/kernel. Once you add multitasking to a mobile device, you open up a massive can of worms - managing the memory between the processes, paging, a decent priorities mechanism (fit for a phone, not a desktop computer) and switching between them effectively. Multitasking for the sake of it is pointless, and keeping away from it simplifies things greatly. Besides - on some level it is multitasking any way. It's UNIX, so it'll maintaining a lot of things with separate processes anyhow (wireless, for example, is presumably some kind of service/process)

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 6th Jul 2009 00:58
Multitasking would not be for "the sake of it" though. It can be very useful, particularly if you're trying to use two apps at once. (otherwise you need to launch, close, launch, close, launch, close which not only disrupts workflow but also wears out the flash) And where's the source release? Source has been released for Darwin for Mac on PPC and x86. No ARM.

All of the "can of worms" surrounding multitasking should be pretty much solved already if the Darwin on the iPhone is anything like the Darwin on the Mac.

David R
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Posted: 6th Jul 2009 01:06 Edited at: 6th Jul 2009 01:07
Quote: "All of the "can of worms" surrounding multitasking should be pretty much solved already if the Darwin on the iPhone is anything like the Darwin on the Mac. "


No, because it's a completely different scenario. A mobile phone is not a Mac - which means you need to impose limits. For example, how do you stop the user running too many apps at once? (and killing all available memory). Flash memory would be stupid to page to, as presumably the choice of memory in the iPhone means writing is more latent/slow than reading, probably making paging directly to it undesirable from a performance POV, or possibly even shortening its life. You can't have a global task limit either, since some apps may consume more than others - unless you impose a memory limit per app - which is also stupid, and limits the potential of the apps.

And even if you get all this fixed, how do you prevent "stupid" processes - like background processes etc. consuming all battery power.

Overall, there's no simple way to fix these issues without screwing over one element of a mobile device. It isn't a desktop, and multitasking should not be dealt with in the same way - or at all, in the case of a phone.

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 6th Jul 2009 01:13
Funny, I have a XDA lying around from years back that seems to accomplish all of that. (although it doesn't have a super-slick hardware accelerated interface, it's very responsive and fast for its age)

Oh, and look at that, the little Android can do it too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1m4j676BCc

David R
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Posted: 6th Jul 2009 01:19 Edited at: 6th Jul 2009 01:20
Quote: "And where's the source release? Source has been released for Darwin for Mac on PPC and x86. No ARM. "


http://www.opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-1228.12.14/README

Quote: " The machine configuration defaults to S5L8900X for arm and default for i386 and ppc."


Hopefully you can guess where the S5L8900X comes into play

Quote: "Funny, I have a XDA lying around from years back that seems to accomplish all of that.

Oh, and look at that, the little Android can do it too.
"


Which means both of them must compromise in one of the ways I already mentioned

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 6th Jul 2009 01:25 Edited at: 6th Jul 2009 01:26
Hmm, when did they do that? Quite a few sources list the ARM port as being unreleased in source code format.

Uh... how did we get to arguing up to this point?

In any case, I imagine coding for the iPhone could be quite fun as you can optimise to the max and be sure of the target platform's capabilities. Much like the DS, which is also fun in that regard.

David R
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Posted: 6th Jul 2009 01:28
Quote: "Hmm, when did they do that? Quite a few sources list the ARM port as being unreleased in source code format."


Not all the source is there - I would hazard a guess that it's probably because releasing all of it could possibly give Apple's competitors an edge (considering ARM is very widespread etc.) but a lot of the source hints at ARM and has various config files for it, so it seems to be being built from the same codebase.

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JoelJ
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Posted: 6th Jul 2009 06:47
Quote: "(otherwise you need to launch, close, launch, close, launch, close which not only disrupts workflow"

Honestly, you hardly notice it, if not at all. Most apps continue where you left off, and those close/open so fast. The only time I've noticed that it works that way is when I use a game.
I think it's smart that Apple limits the number of tasks to one. Not only for performance, but also for battery life. Other than IMing, I can't really think of a reason you'd need two programs at once. It's not a workstation. It's a phone.

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