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FPSC Classic Product Chat / ATI 4870 and FPSC Shaders: Im Puzzled

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creator of zombies
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Posted: 5th Jul 2009 16:28
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Hey there all!,
Well as the title suggests, Iv'e been stumped on the particular issue of shaders (expecially any of my model pack 22 shaders & the illuminationmap shader), that they wontwork under my new ATI card.
The lowdown is that I currently own a ATI 4870 1GB, but none of the above shaders (plus some others) will work, compared to when I had my Nvidia card. For example, If I apply the illumination shader to the WW2 handheld lamp, the lamp appears black. The same goes for characters that If the default dante shader for example, is applied to the dante model then the character just appears invisible, and only the circular shadow is visible. Iv'e had a browse about in the code and had tried changing the pixel shader etc but no Joy...Could anyone please shed some light on this matter (I am aware that Bond1 stated some time ago that there is an issue with Mp22 characters and ATI cards, but even his ATI fix doesnt work, the characters just appear black)
Im currently using the latest version of FPSC, coupled with AirmodSE. Now under airmod SE, these shader problems occur, but If I switch to project Blue 1.7, the illumination shader works, but character shaders still dont.

Anyway, thats my problem (And before anyone says it: I am Not going to give in a develop with shaders turned off)

CoZ

-Demon Sun: Lead Developer-
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Black Profductions
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Posted: 5th Jul 2009 16:40
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as far as i know its a problem with all ati cards, i dont know why they can reproduse shaders, i think thats a pixel and vertex problem, but shaders can be fixed
Take a look at bond1 fixedd shaders for ati cards, maybe it halps you

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4125
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Posted: 5th Jul 2009 18:23
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From What Bond1 Said. ATI Drop Shader Model 3 For X9 Games...But The MP22 Fix worked With My Old ATI Raedon HD 2600 XT (Which Is a crappy Card Compare To Your ATI Raedon 4870)....But It Seems That The Problem May Be With Airmod SE "By itself" And Not With Project Blue (Which uses Airmod V6 I Think)...I Switched Back To Nvidia (Geforce 9800 GTX+ Still Not Good With Your 4870) To Avoid All Problems with stuff like that....but try cleanin all .DBO and .DBU files.....sometimes That May Oddly Fix Issues Like That....

Computer Specs: Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 2.80GHz @ 1066Mhz FSB 3MB Cache, Dual Channel 8192MB DDR2 PC6400 800MHz RAM, XFX Nvidia Geforce 9800 GTX+ 512MB, MSI P7N SLI-FI Motherboard - nForce 750i SLI
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Bigsnake
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Posted: 5th Jul 2009 21:44
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I would agree , I have HD 3850 , It cant produce shaders for mods ,etc proply

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Plystire
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Posted: 6th Jul 2009 00:48 Edited at: 6th Jul 2009 00:49
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I encountered this making the FS3 for my Mod. I also have a 4870 HD card. There were strange problems with them that made me think it was a problem with my code, but it turned out to be a shader problem.

For a quick fix, open the problem shaders up and change them to use SM3.0 (for BOTH the vertex shader and the pixel shader, on all passes and techniques)

I have done that with all of the problem shaders and they all work perfectly now.


The one and only,


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Dark Goblin
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Posted: 6th Jul 2009 01:05
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i have no problem and have an ATI 4870!

All FPSC Shader work without problems and also other DBP Shaders work perfectly!

... efxMod Developer!
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bond1
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Posted: 6th Jul 2009 02:04 Edited at: 6th Jul 2009 03:16
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Plystire's suggestion is a good one - I vaguely recall reading about that requirement for some of those ATI cards. The frustrating thing is that it seems to vary from card to card in their lineup. I would also like to know if this works for you for future reference. Keep us updated since this has been an ongoing frustration for ATI users - and I've got some wicked new stuff coming up, and I'd hate to leave ATI folks out in the cold again.

My ATI fix works for some people, so even more puzzling it doesn't work with this card. Just an innocent question - any particular reason you went with a new ATI card over Nvidia knowing they had chronic driver issues?

I would suggest sending a bug report to ATI, not that I think it would do any good, but just based on principle.

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"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
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djmaster
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Posted: 6th Jul 2009 09:27
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The reason to swap graphic cards was probably the price.After I heard ATI had driver problems I just bought a Geforce.

[href]http://chargedstudios.netne.net/index.htm[href]
"Im British you muppet!"-Psycho
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creator of zombies
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Posted: 6th Jul 2009 09:50 Edited at: 6th Jul 2009 09:52
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Thanks for the suggestions all...I shall give them a whirl tonight.
Quote: "any particular reason you went with a new ATI card over Nvidia knowing they had chronic driver issues?"

Well, It was party because this model was a few £'s cheaper than the Geforce 260 Maxcore (£134 compared to £145), but also the fact that the 1GB version of the 4870 of which I own takes the Geforce 260 to school on pretty much every game. My source for this statement is (Many online benchmarks and reviews + mags), but also because Iv'e recently undertaken a benchmark of the two cards using Identical systems, and the 1GB 4870 pretty much always comes out on top (In such games as Crysis, Stalker, FEAR2 etc). The only aspect I am now missing of the Nvidia lineup is the Nvidia Physx technology which was great!, and also the fact that Nvidia cards arent subject to such intense CPU bottlenecking (Im running on a 2.6Ghz Dual core), and the 4870 is currently slightly bottlenecked.


CoZ

-Demon Sun: Lead Developer-
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bond1
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Posted: 6th Jul 2009 10:55 Edited at: 6th Jul 2009 10:57
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Oh ok. I've stopped playing the benchmark game awhile ago, since really, why do I care if one card gets a few fps's over another, I just want my shizzle to work plain and simple. Besides, every few months card manufacturer's just leapfrog back and forth with benchmark game anyway.

If there comes a time when I can just plug in an ATI card and know it will work with ALL my 3D software, not just games, then I might go back.

Let us know if you get anything figured out, I'm interested to know too!

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"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
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DarthBasicVader
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Posted: 6th Jul 2009 16:51
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We could create a sort of list of ATI cards supporting PS 3.0
I'll contribute with mine:

ATI x1950 PRO --> supports PS 3.0 (tested with bond1 models and shaders)

Riccardo
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Dark Goblin
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Posted: 6th Jul 2009 16:58
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i need to say again.

For me all shader work fine but I would try one of bond1`s stuff if I would have one of it to test.

... efxMod Developer!
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Plystire
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Posted: 7th Jul 2009 02:04
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I recall that there were some issues with SM2.0 between nVidia and ATi cards, where they amde one version of SM2.0, called it SM2.a, and made that work with nVidia cards, while making another version of SM2.0, calling it SM2.b, and making that one work for ATi cards.

Well, that's the jist of what I got out of the story, and I have actually seen some shaders written with both SM2.a and SM2.b, so there must be some truth to it. In any case, SM3.0 seems to be more stable for both makes thatn SM2.0, so that's what I used.


The one and only,


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bond1
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Posted: 20th Jul 2009 11:01 Edited at: 20th Jul 2009 11:06
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So...it's been a while, what's the good word? Did you have any luck getting your ATI card working?

I've just read on the Autodesk forums that that people are having trouble using the 4870 with 3ds Max as well, all kinds of transparency problems. Makes me think that the 4870 might just be a bum card that simply won't render some things correctly.

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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 20th Jul 2009 12:17
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@COZ

In Bond1's model pack 22 thread I tried very hard to warn people away from ATI cards. I tried saving a few bucks getting a 2900XT only to find it couldn't do shader model 3 and ended spending a bunch more money on a Nvidia 9800GT (which is great).

It appears there is a reason why ATI cards are cheaper than Nvidia and the trade off definately isn't worth it. Save a bit of cash then spend 50% of your development time in support emails. No thanks.

Bond1 had to cut the shader down to make it compatible with ATI so even if you get lucky with that your not getting the full benefit of the shader.

Nvidia cards just work and have much better drivers. Sure you might get lucky with ATI and get a card that works for a good price but its not worth taking the risk.
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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 20th Jul 2009 12:30 Edited at: 20th Jul 2009 12:30
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EDIT: Never mind.

"You are not smart! You are very un-smart!"
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Dark Goblin
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Posted: 20th Jul 2009 12:57
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well again I need to say that I dont have any problems with any of my ATI Cards.

I always have ATI cards in my PC and never had any issue (not FPSC, not DBP, not any other 3D Software!).

But well if you have some, than you can be right.
But for me, everything works well!

And that Nvidia has better drivers is not that true ^^
I know a lot of people having more driver issues than me with ATI Drivers!

... efxMod Developer!
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