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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Windows 7 Compatibility and Investing in a machine to run FPSC /well/

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kms
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Posted: 13th Jul 2009 19:06
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Due to issues I spoke about here, I have since needed to start over in my game creation, and for convenience sake have nonetheless decided to invest in another PC to speed this second bout along.

My other machines have worked, but I'm looking for one to work /well/. I know some of you had good advice regarding PCs in the past, so I drew from that in my searches, and I was wondering what you thought of a machine like this:
Asus - Laptop with Intel® Centrino® 2 Processor Technology.
I know it has less processing power, but I was wondering if the rest might compensate.

I also wondered about a PC like this from Cyberpower, which has the downside of limiting my movement, since it is a desktop, but I'm checking on the specs, as there's a laptop, also, but it's about $1000 more, so I don't think the portability is worth it. If I was to get a laptop with the same specs, however, do you think it would even run as well as the desktop, anyway?:
Intel® Core™ i7-920 2.66 GHz
Asus P6T SE Intel X58 Chipset CrossFireX Mainboard
6GB RAM
500GB HD
NVIDIA GeForce GTX280 1GB 16X
Microsoft® Windows Vista™ Home Premium w/ Service Pack 1 (64-bit Edition) with upgrade to Microsoft® Windows® 7 Home Premium
(64-bit Edition)

I know that the second is better than the first, but I'm wondering for insight regarding both and how you all would think they'd run. Thanks. Any help is appreciated, but please specify if you have any similar machines yourself, so I also know if you have first-hand knowledge in the matter.

Also, from what I have read, it seems like FPSC x9 should work with both Vista and with Windows 7, although the latter is somewhat sluggish in the editor. Is this the case? Is it inconveniently so, or is it just something that is noticeable? I have heard many times that FPSC x9 works with Vista as long as I download Direct x9.0c, yes?

Thank you all very much.
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koolman v2
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Posted: 13th Jul 2009 22:56
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well I had a little bit of a problem with windows 7
I final got it up and installed on it.
when I ran I started adding segments and all that the map editor ran extremely slow and all the models went a little bit fuzz when I tried a test game it took like 10mins for such a small a small level

the thing I can't understand is why it can run on vista so smoothly and not win 7 I thought win 7 supposed to be faster.

note: your computer like 3x of what I've got

Your signature has been erased by a mod, because it exceeded the 600x200 limit.
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bond1
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Posted: 14th Jul 2009 03:09 Edited at: 14th Jul 2009 03:11
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I recently just built a new computer with almost the EXACT same specs, except I bought Asus P6T Deluxe mobo, and an Nvidia GTX285. Fastest, most stable and trouble free system I've ever used, I've yet to hit the performance wall with anything I've thrown at it with FPSC.

Name drop: Lee Bamber has the same system.

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"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
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xplosys
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Posted: 14th Jul 2009 03:20
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I can verify the speed issue with FPSC editor on Windows 7. The games test and run fine, but the editor speed issue make it unusable.

Brian.

Lizzie Borden took an axe and gave her mother forty whacks.

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Apple Slicer
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Posted: 14th Jul 2009 03:24
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I use windows 7, and fpsc, and NEVER had any issues. it should work perfect.

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xplosys
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Posted: 14th Jul 2009 03:25
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Quote: "it should work perfect"


I agree.

Brian.

Lizzie Borden took an axe and gave her mother forty whacks.

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Gunn3r
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Posted: 14th Jul 2009 03:37
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I messed around with installing Ply's Mod, and I think I might have unknowningly tweaked a setting on my regular FPSC in Windows 7 that makes it to where the editor speed is normal... Not sure what happened, but it's running smooth now... Or, at least, smoother than it was. Before this, it was horribly slow, though.

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xplosys
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Posted: 14th Jul 2009 03:38
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Maybe I'll try it again. It's a pain booting into XP just for that.

Brian.

Lizzie Borden took an axe and gave her mother forty whacks.

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Rampage
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Posted: 14th Jul 2009 03:41
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Same thing happened with me, when I first got Windows 7 Ultimate (64 bit) the editor was extremely slow. But when I opened up fpsc like 2 weeks later everything was perfect.


Eidos!
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xplosys
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Posted: 14th Jul 2009 03:57
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Well, it's still slow as molasses. I'll play around and give it a few days to see what happens.

Brian.

Lizzie Borden took an axe and gave her mother forty whacks.

fpsFREE - Contact Me
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s4real
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Posted: 14th Jul 2009 04:23
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I been using windows 7 and had the slower editor as well,to get your editor to run fast like normal make sure Fps creator is installed on a sep drive in your machine(if you have one.) and it will run like it should.

Fpsc editor on the same drive windows 7 is installed = slower editor.

best s4real

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xplosys
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Posted: 14th Jul 2009 05:02
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Very interesting s4real, thanks.

I already had it installed on my XP drive, so I redirected the FPS Creator shortcut to it instead of my W7 install, and it works fine now. I just deleted the FPS Creator folder from Windows 7 and it runs from the other drive.

Brian.

Lizzie Borden took an axe and gave her mother forty whacks.

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The Next
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Posted: 14th Jul 2009 10:57
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I've been using FPSC on Win7 also and i have found the following in my tests.

Win7 32bit = Works fine with slight slow downs in editor speeds but if you run in compatibility mode for Vista it works fine with no slow downs.

Win7 64bit = This version of WIN7 is so buggy it trashes DVD's it messes with installers the lot its awful (Microsoft needs to work on it big time if they even want anyone to consider using it) of course not many people use 64bit because its so bad at running programs, on this version of WINDOWS when i tried to install FPSC it failed 5 times all running under different compatibility setups, then i just copied the files from an XP machine to the program files area and it ran the application fine then crashes when you try to open your list of models


Windows 7, Intel Core 2 Duo 3.2 Ghz, 4GB, 2x Nvidia 9600GT 1GB
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JiMmYThEHaNd
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Posted: 14th Jul 2009 14:10
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u could

install win 7 on ur hdd BUT install gay scabby vista(sorry but i hate it) on a usb and, i know it will be anoying but run vista of ur usb every time u want to use fpsc x10

It Would be Very Annoying But Still An Alternative
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The Next
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Posted: 14th Jul 2009 22:01
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Why dont you just dual boot it if you try to install vista on a USB stick it one will not work correctly and two if it does work at all (most USB's wont support this type of usage) it will be too slow to run FPSC effectively

Or even better just use windows 7 its the best option out there


Windows 7, Intel Core 2 Duo 3.2 Ghz, 4GB, 2x Nvidia 9600GT 1GB
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Red Eye
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Posted: 14th Jul 2009 22:23
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Quote: "I use windows 7, and fpsc, and NEVER had any issues. it should work perfect."


I second that 101 times.

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SamK
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Posted: 15th Jul 2009 17:00 Edited at: 15th Jul 2009 17:01
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If you want a laptop that Asus you are looking at should run FPSC very well. I have the Asus laptop model just before that one that best buy carried for gaming .http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9173262&type=product&id=1218044029168
Biggest difference is the video card. Mine has the 9800 GS 512mb.
I have the G50vt-x5 (best buy version)

If I had waited another month I would have bought the one you linked. But so far I have ben very happy with this one
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kms
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Posted: 15th Jul 2009 20:46 Edited at: 15th Jul 2009 20:47
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Thanks for the information, guys.

@bond1: Wow! You mean that you recently built a computer with the latter specs, correct? Not the laptop?

@Apple Slicer and Red Eye: Can I ask about your machines? I'm trying to see if I can pinpoint differences between why Windows 7 would work for some people and not others. I know that Gunn3r said that he somehow used Ply's Mod, although I do not currently have any mods. Are you running 32bit or 64bit? Perhaps it's on a different drive like s4real mentioned?

@Rampage and Gunn3r: It's a similar question to above, but do you know what you changed in your system or mod?

@koolman v2: On the flip side, did you ever do anything to get it to work? Have any of these mentioned solutions worked/not worked for you?

@The Next: I would just use Windows 7, but from what you mentioned before even in your tests, it doesn't sound like it's the best option. Are other people having problem with 64bit specifically? Perhaps I should invest in 32bit? Were there issues with 64bit Vista, as well? (In addition to so many other Vista issues?)

@s4real: Are you talking about setting up some kind of partition or something entirely separate?

@xplosys: I was unaware that I could install separate systems on separate drives and then run one from the other. Is that what you're saying you did or am I misunderstanding?

@SamK: Really? That's great. I was worried about the processing speed being less than what's recommended on the website. Can I ask what sort of fps you're getting and how complex you think that your levels are?
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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 16th Jul 2009 00:42
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Not much point in considering Windows 7 your primary operating system until the proper release is out.

There's loads of things which don't work properly in the RC.

Wait till the end of the year when there's a decent build of Windows 7 to use.
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s4real
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Posted: 16th Jul 2009 01:38
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@kms Yes you could make a partition and run it that way.

I'm running windows 7 64bit version and had no issues at all running any software so far.

best s4real

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bond1
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Posted: 16th Jul 2009 02:37 Edited at: 16th Jul 2009 02:45
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Quote: "@bond1: Wow! You mean that you recently built a computer with the latter specs, correct? Not the laptop?"


Yeah, the desktop, I built a couple months ago. Awesome machine, and really wasn't that expensive either, well under $2000. I think you'd be very happy with it. I'm using Vista Home Premium 64bit, until Windows 7 officially ships this fall, then I'll upgrade. I've been running it non-stop for a few months - stable as can be, not one single issue with it. I'm used to dealing with at least SOME issues (USB devices unloading unexpectedly, occasional lockups), but this machine has had none of that, it's been absolutely rock solid and fast as hell.

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"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
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xplosys
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Posted: 16th Jul 2009 05:19
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Quote: "I was unaware that I could install separate systems on separate drives and then run one from the other. Is that what you're saying you did or am I misunderstanding?"


You can't run one O/S from the other, no and normally you can't run a program that's installed on another O/S. I have two hard drives, one with W7 installed and one with XP installed. I can boot to either O/S from the boot loader.

In this case, I already had FPS Creator installed on the XP drive. I tried it on the W7 drive, but had the slow editor issue so I uninstalled it. After reading this thread, I tried to install it again, but got the same issue. s4real said it worked well if it was installed on another drive, so this is what I did....

I uninstalled it and removed the directory from the Program Files folder. The install created the required entries in the registry, and I left them intact. Next I created a shortcut to FPS Creator.exe on the XP drive and it runs fine that way. Plus, I didn't have to reinstall all the model pack or my collection of entities and segments.

Brian.

Lizzie Borden took an axe and gave her mother forty whacks.

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Rampage
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Posted: 16th Jul 2009 05:31
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I haven't had any troubles what so ever with any software or ...well...anything! On Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit.


Eidos!
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kms
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Posted: 19th Jul 2009 19:52 Edited at: 19th Jul 2009 19:52
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What do you think about this set-up? It's the Asus G71GX-RX05.

Intel® Core™2 Duo Mobile
2.53GHz
3MB on die Level 2 (Cache Memory)
6GB RAM
Serial ATA (5400 rpm) 500GB HD
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260M 1GB GDDR3
Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit with SP1

Again, the GHz is lower that the recommended "2.66GHz" on the main website, but I'm wondering if the rest could make up for it. If people think it's too 'on the fence', I'd probably just shell out for the bond1 system, so honesty's appreciated either way. Anyone have anything similar? Apparently, its initial BIOS error has been fixed.


@s4real: Thanks! I guess I'm trying to figure out /how/ to run one from the other. (I asked xplosys more about this below. Did you do it the same way as he did?)

@Nomad Soul: I guess I'm trying to decide if I should get a Vista machine and then later upgrade to 7, hoping it will be better, or if I should stay with XP. The problem with XP is that it'd restrict my system hardware with the RAM limit and everything.

@bond1: Is there any way you could send me your full specs? I'm so used to having problems myself that I kind of am hoping to get a machine that I know for sure will work. Also, is that Asus MB that you mentioned the "Asus P6T Deluxe V2 Intel X58 Chipset SLI/CrossFireX Mainboard SAS Triple-Channel DDR3/1600 SATA w/ eSATA, Dual GbLAN, USB2.0, IEEE1394a, & 7.1Audio" one? I'm creating my PC via Cyberpower. Did you have to get yourself any sort of special casing/power supplies/fans, etc. to help with cooling, or has it done alright for itself on its own?

@xplosys: Do you have two entirely separate hard drives, or could I just use the partition? How do I leave the registry files there, or does it do it by default with the program uninstaller? I usually use Revo Uninstaller so that I /can/ clear my registry, so I'd skip that this time, I guess. So, then, let's say that G: is my Vista/XP drive and D: is my 7 drive. That means that I boot up D:, but I add a link to G:? I just want to check that I've got this straight. Thanks.

@Rampage: Hmm... man, that's weird that it works so well for some and then not for others. I really wonder if these could be hardware differences, or if it's just random.
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xplosys
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Posted: 19th Jul 2009 22:37
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Quote: "Do you have two entirely separate hard drives"


Yes, but separate partitions work the same way. Yes, when you uninstall FPSC, the registry entries remain intact.

Boot into your Windows 7 drive. If the registry entries have not been removed, then it will recognize the install. You just want to change the path. Do that by simply creating a shortcut to the FPC Creator.exe file on the other drive/partition. Then use that shortcut to run it.

Brian.

Lizzie Borden took an axe and gave her mother forty whacks.

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bond1
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Posted: 20th Jul 2009 02:20 Edited at: 20th Jul 2009 03:01
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My specs:

Mobo: Asus P6T Deluxe V2 Intel X58 Chipset (the one you have listed above)
CPU: Intel Core i7 920
RAM: 6GB Corsair Triple Channel DDR3
Power Supply: PC Power and Cooling 750W Silencer power supply (very reputable brand)
DVD/CD drive: some $40 model I bought from Best Buy
Hard Drives: Two 1TB Western Digital Cavier drives, one for Windows, the other for holding data and stuff
Video Card: Nvidia GTX 285
OS: Vista Home Premium 64bit OEM

I'm using the stock cooling fans, nothing fancy. I have a full tower Gigabyte case that is nice and roomy. It's actually pretty quiet, and like I said most stable setup I've EVER used.

EDIT: You will absolutely need a full size case for the GTX 285, it's huge. But I've been amazed how quick built FPSC games load compared to my old system, usually under 10 seconds even for large games. Must be the fast video memory and the triple channel RAM.

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"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
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kms
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Posted: 20th Jul 2009 17:14 Edited at: 20th Jul 2009 23:57
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@xplosys: Awesome, thanks. I think I'll definitely have to try doing that because I don't want to be stuck with Vista forever just for FPS Creator, heh.

@bond1: Wow, thanks for that edit. I would have gotten a mid-sized. I'm looking at the Thermaltake Spedo Full Tower Case and the Thermaltake ToughPower 750W. Do you think that should be enough to keep it running alright? The general reviews on them seem good, but some are a bit old, so I don't know how it'd handle this system. I don't know if you've heard at all of them. Also, it's having me choose whether I want "Xtreme Performance in SLI/CrossFireX Gaming Mode Supports Single Monitor" or "Non-SLI/Non-CrossFireX Mode Supports Multiple Monitors" for my video card settings. I know that the MB supports SLI, so I'm figuring I should go with that? To be honest, I don't know whether I'd be buying another monitor or graphics card after all of this, but I guess it's about options. Anyway, sorry about some of these questions, but I've never even gotten close to a machine this good. My current machine has a (cringe) integrated graphics card, so some of this is new territory. EDIT: Also, do you think the fact that I'd be getting Vista Ultimate could cause a problem? I know you use Home Premium. I'd need to get Ultimate, it seems, so that it matches other computers in the department.

EDIT: I attached a *.jpg of my tentative build. I'd appreciate it if people could tell me what they think and if you foresee any problems (ex- the certain case didn't work for you, etc.)

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bond1
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Posted: 21st Jul 2009 02:40 Edited at: 21st Jul 2009 02:52
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To be honest I've never given SLI a second thought, always seemed like a huge waste of money and more trouble than it's worth, but I don't know. As far as the power supply, just make sure it's "certified" for SLI if you decide to go that route and get a reputable brand, not the cheapest you can find. Quality hardware needs quality, reliable juice. I would not get a power supply under $100 bucks.

For me as well, this was the first semi-high end system I've ever built. Most of my older systems were always a patchwork of midrange parts from different generations of hardware. I must say, when you get all these quality parts together in one system, they really complement each other and everything is just screaming fast.

I can't imagine you'd have any problems with Ultimate over Home Premium, I just used it because the OEM version was so cheap, and I plan to get Windows 7 when it's officially released anyway.

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kms
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Posted: 21st Jul 2009 03:55
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Yeah, neither have I, really. Like I said, I hadn't really planned on SLI or multiple monitors, but it is unfortunately making me choose between one or the other.

The power supply is apparently certified for SLI, but I wasn't actually looking for that when I chose it. Have you (or anyone) heard of Thermaltake? I've never had to look into these companies before, but they seemed alright from what I'd looked at. This supply runs for ~$130 new, so I hope it's good enough. 750W is what you went for, right? That's how I decided to look at it. Has that seemed like sufficient wattage for you? I'm mainly worried about everything complimenting, so that's why I uploaded the full specs, too.

I know. I'm real excited to be on a good machine for once. I plan on upgrading to 7 when it comes out, too, especially after what I've heard from some of the others about booting both OS.
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bond1
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Posted: 21st Jul 2009 07:40 Edited at: 21st Jul 2009 07:44
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750W has been fine for me, I would just be wary of the no-name brands that claim 1200W for $75.

I've pushed the machine HARD too, working on a 20 million poly Mudbox model, 3ds Max with a complex shader effect in the viewport, and Photoshop open all at the same time. And I use dual monitors with my single GTX 285. Not even a hiccup - the freedom to work this way has been liberating!

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kms
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Posted: 21st Jul 2009 17:33
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Wow, that's great. I'm really excited about this. I hope that my choices work well-enough together. That's my main issue because I've read reviews of the individual components that seem alright. It's just how well it all comes together now. I wanted to try and get exactly what you got, but some of those options don't exist (like Gigabyte cases). I also upped the power supply to 850W, so that should hopefully be enough now. I really appreciate all of your help with this, by the way. I'll have to let you know how it works out. I also changed to the option for multiple monitors because I'm guessing I'd be more likely to get a second of those than a second card.

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