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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Is this better than The 3d gamemaker

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Andrew
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Posted: 24th Aug 2003 00:26
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Could someone tell me if DarkBASIC Professional is better than The 3d gamemaker, if so explain to me how better it is?
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 24th Aug 2003 00:27
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If you cant program then the 3D Gamemaker will be ideal for you, otherwise DBPro would be much more suitable.


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Andrew
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Posted: 24th Aug 2003 00:46
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So really DarkBASIC Professional makes no difference to The 3d Gammemaker (besides coding it yourself)
Also is it true that for DarkBASIC Professional there is a multiplayer online game that you can do,, how does that work?
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 24th Aug 2003 00:50
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Well, DBPro cant interact with The Gamemaker (and vice versa).
DBPro does have multiuser commands for internet/lan programs, although I haven't got the hang of it yet.


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MicroMan
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Posted: 24th Aug 2003 00:52
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No, Dark Basic probably makes a HUGE difference because with Dark Basic you get the game exactly as you want it -- with a bit of effort. With a ready made click-n-play system there is always a price to be paid for the ease of use, and that's limitations.

I don't know the 3d gamemaker, but I bet that if it's just click-n-play, then you can only make one type of game in it, and you can't really add anything to the game beyond what will be considered cliche.

Learning to program Basic is not hard.
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Mentor
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Posted: 24th Aug 2003 13:28
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the 3D gamemaker is a click and play written in DB, are they similar?, er..yeah!, like a Reliant Robin and a TVR Cebra, that is they both run on the same medium, and thats about where the simularity ends, download the demo and try that, you will get a better idea of what the differences are than can be explained on a forum.

Mentor.
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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 24th Aug 2003 14:18
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The 3dgamemaker is fun for young kids to play about with but is VERY limited as to what you can do - DBPro will take you significantly longer to make anything in, but its worth it as you can literally make anything you envision. Also the final games in DBPro look a LOT more professional, far better graphical effects are possible.

Quikly Studio Pro. Soon. Honest.
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Startopian
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Posted: 24th Aug 2003 16:04
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Er, the 3D game maker was made in DB Classic. Hence it will be limited to DB Clasic's speed. DB Pro should be able to run rings around it. I have never seen a good game done with the 3D gamemaker they all look `similar`. Much the same as games done in the shoot-em-up Construction Kit years ago, and GAC, and QUILL etc. Although the last two had some really good games done with them.

Like people have said it's easier than DB Pro, no coding required. But if you can get your head round the programming, you should do much better stuff in Pro. Remember though it will take a LOT more effort and time to so something in DB pro than it would in 3D Gamemaker. If all you want to do is create a quick quirky personalised game for your mates or something then go for 3D Gamemaker. If you want to try to write the next Halo beater go for Pro, or maybe not . It's really up to you, your not gonna make big money from the 3D gamemaker, it's just not gonna happen. Even with Pro your highly unlikley to make money.
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Mentor
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Posted: 24th Aug 2003 16:23
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and has anybody noticed they have a "per game" licence agreement on the 3dgm? (see it`s page on this site..under licencing), you have to pay for a licence for the games you make with the 3DGM, most weird, I know they had plans to make DB a licence product, but the protest against that was massive and they dropped the idea (I doubt they would have sold a single copy if they had ).

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Shock
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Posted: 24th Aug 2003 22:39
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Quote: "Er, the 3D game maker was made in DB Classic. "


No it wasnt, your close though T3DGM was made using the same engine as dbc.

but a dbp vs t3dgm thread is hardly worth wasting my breath (well, finger tips) on, just take my word for it: dbp is alot better than t3dgm.

the best way your going to find out is to download the dbp demo.


Sticking feathers up your butt doesn't make you a chicken.
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 24th Aug 2003 23:09 Edited at: 24th Aug 2003 23:12
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Quote: "Could someone tell me if DarkBASIC Professional is better than The 3d gamemaker, if so explain to me how better it is? "


The 3d Gamemaker is better than DarkBASIC Professional because if you need to ask which is better than 3DGM is probably the better product for you. However, if you want to know which makes better games?

Well, are we talking tommorow, or in a years time?

If you have the patience, the willingness to learn, the determination to overcome not megre hundreds of hurdles, but thousands, the acceptance that no matter how good you get there's always some smugg *insert profanity here* you can learn from who's only too willing to show how stupidly implemented that last function of yours was, then yes, DarkBASIC Professional is the product for you.

If you want to make a game next week to show your mates, get *3D Construction Kit. It will most likely be collecting dust within a month or two, but you can have some fun with it.

* I left this error in as a kick in the funny bone to myself, 3D Construction Kit is an old Spectrum program that did much the same thing - yep, i'm a fogey around here and I haven't even had my mid life crisis yet.

Pneumatic Dryll
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richvstone
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Posted: 25th Aug 2003 03:09
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How does this program compare to others like 3D Gamestudio or Quest 3D...I'm looking for a solid program that offers the most versatility and security for a mmorpg. Can DBPro even offer me that or is there something else that I should be checking out?

All input is greatly appreciated.

Richard Van Stone
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Jonny_S
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Posted: 25th Aug 2003 03:42
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3D Game studio is a very very good program but is not for an amateur.......I'd learn DBpro first its BASIC and it could create MMORPG's but maybe you should start with hello world if you have no programming experiance

Supermonkey - The crime gifhting sex god monkey!
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Ian T
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Posted: 25th Aug 2003 08:08
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3d game studio looks good, but it seems quite different from DBP... more like a crossover between advanced click-and-play and real programming. It dosen't have full DX9 support, no shaders, and from what I can see works off of a very limiting level system. DBP is a true programming language-- you can make things from text, 3d, 2d, whatever, it's all up to you and your code.

--Mouse

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OneTouch
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Posted: 25th Aug 2003 22:13 Edited at: 25th Aug 2003 22:20
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O.k. I will say first. I HATE THE PPL OVER AT 3D GAME STUDIO!
I bought the dman thing for $200.00 and got ripped off by them.
I was using A5 for about 2 yrs, and had gain LOTS of respect on there forum. I won a few contests over there (Secound Place for a New Logo (A6)). But someone started passing around a warez version on A5 Com, I notified Contiec about it, and they took away my lisence. That's BS! They don't care about the ppl over there, just $$$$$.

BOT!
Take a look at their TOS or Lisencing what ever the heck it is.
To remove THEIR splash screen from your game it will cost you 10 Grand! The icon of your game can not be changed and it says ACNEX on a small grey box!

What a joke!

Other than that A6 is 10 Millions Times the product that DBP is.
Mouse was way off on what he/she said.

First off A6 lanuage is C /C++ or you can Click and Create!
It has 100% supposrt for Dx 9 (with some minor issues).
It has shaders (carton too).
The levl systems is great. You can create a game in WED in 5 minuets. You can make things from text, 3d, 2d, whatever, it's all up to you and your codeing too.

If you want to make a sellable MMORPG, then I would go for something else than DBP. A6 can do it (very well too), but I think that if you want to get into the TRUE game Business, you had just better learn C++ and make an engine, or get one like Morfit or Qube or something. NDL is the best out there, but it costs the most.

I had no choice but to quit A5/A6, or I would probaly be there now. I chosed to quit DBP because of it's not made for commercail games. Not like Halo or Half Life or something. Neither one of these A6/ DBP offer multi operating system support.

For a true MMORPG, that will kick butt, study C++ and OpenGl!

BTW, this is not an add for A6. I would not buy it, if I was you or anyone else. You take a chance of losing your money. Besides I am good friend with allot of "higher up" people (yeah right ) over there and the word is that alot of custermers are PO'd at A6. It is not offering everything that they say it does.

BTW, I owed T3DGM, and it sucks!
No offense to the makers. But they should try to advertise it as a "kid's toy". There is NO WAY to make a quailty game with it. But for the price you do get some kewl textures. I think I got about 15 FPS on a small limited detail, limited item level, with about 10 bad guys in it. That was about a year ago or so, maybe they made inhancements. I know some patches came out, I tired them but it still sucked, so I returned it. Buy it, try it, return it, if you want!

However, I did use it as an outline for a game in development by my company. I made a "rough draft" so to speak with T3DGM of DymondBack, and it has helped me out in many ways. So if you can afford the extra cash, it could be worth it.

need more information on game development,
visit http://www.dtagames.com
X is left-right, Y is up-down and Z is near-away
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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 25th Aug 2003 22:25
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Ive just been on T3dGM just now. I dont even own pro and I can tell you that pro is better. Well tech-wise it is and also because your not limited in pro like you are in 3dgm.

In the gamemaker you cant change physics, or any of the neat effects in todays games - bulet time would be impossible. Plus your limited by the shooter engine - you can onlly make shooting games and racing games - no beatem ups or anything - theres so many limits (plus a liscence to sell games made with it) that its better to learn dbpro for the sheer unrestricted joy of it. 'Nuff sed.

"It's amazin' what you can do with a computer and access to t'internet"
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Megaman Zero
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Posted: 25th Aug 2003 22:27 Edited at: 25th Aug 2003 22:28
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I dont recomend A5/A6 at all, I left the forum to come here. I knew a lot more than I do know now about programming, but all of the users on the board, are really bad influences on the game making world.

As for OT, im not going to say I told you so about A6. ^^"

BTW, I own T3DGM, its not too good, it can make a game in about an hours time, but the games arnt worth selling at all, so I dont recomend buying it, or the super expensive liceses, unless you wanted to make a package of 20 games, & sell them for about $5 each (like I said, they arnt too good & arnt worth playing over & over again.)

I would recomend that you buy DBPro, spend a few hours per day learning it, then make a really good game, that can actually be sold for a good price, & doesnt loose its interest ever.

Zero (Formerly Shadow Guyver)
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Andrew
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Posted: 25th Aug 2003 23:15
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Sorry OneTouch but i dont agree with you, DBP is the best, you can design ANYTHING IN THE WORLD with a little know how (well coding gets easy after a while), you could be making 3D games and selling them in months!!!
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OneTouch
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Posted: 25th Aug 2003 23:20
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Well for an amuture, yes DBP is the way to go.
But I don't think Valve or any of them are interested in it.

To be hounest and I am sure Rich and them might agree,
if you want 100% control and best reults, c++ is the only way to go!

need more information on game development,
visit http://www.dtagames.com
X is left-right, Y is up-down and Z is near-away
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Andrew
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Posted: 25th Aug 2003 23:53
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I suppose so, but who cares, different people, different opions
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Dreamora
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Posted: 25th Aug 2003 23:58 Edited at: 26th Aug 2003 00:01
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nope there are some alternatives to C++ today ... C++ is and was ever just a chaotic garbage ... to many different concepts and none really thought trough (OOP for example) and deep implemented ...

I think C++ will die in the "near" future. If it is C# (there are 2 different Pro version for this, one by Microsoft and one by Borland) or another even better language, we will see.

But learning C++ today is quite out of date as long as you don't plan to write for Unix Systems or C-ASM things ...

I think there are really some quite interessting projects out there in the DBP univers which will become very interesting alternatives to the really commercial garbage you get in the shops out there and do you know why?
The teams here do it because they have fun doing it, not like the large studios just because they are hot on your money ...

the teams here try to find new ways, invent things, Valve and the other never ever thought of ... Valve is just good in copying the reality that's it ... there is not more they are able to do.
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OneTouch
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 00:05 Edited at: 26th Aug 2003 00:08
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Well if DBP ever goes multi platform, I will onsider using it again.
It's Windows thats ready to die, so why learn hoe to make stuff just for windows?

Besides, try to argue that Basic is better than C++!
You can't!

need more information on game development,
visit http://www.dtagames.com
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 00:55
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Quote: "It's Windows thats ready to die"

Yeah, right...


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mR n
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 02:10
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hhmmm let's all rememeber c++ has been around just a tad longer then db so a lot problems have been worked out in c++ before db has even run into them. but hey that doesn't matter because windows is going to die soon...*snicker*... mac will take over the world!
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Thade
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 06:37
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You're so right - I haven't seen a computer with Windows XP for ages - a dying species these Micro Softers - have seen Bill Gates here in the Park begging for some food - completely drunk - such a sad story.
And I do not write this in an MSIE - I use Operetta as 95% in the world do
BTW: Tomorrow I'll get my Lamborghini 'cause I've just made my first Billion selling a 3D-Shooter to the enormous amount of Mac-Owners.
LOL
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mR n
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 06:54
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actually i was kidding if you didn't catch that... as much as i want there to be some competion for windows there isn't a whole lot right now.
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Thade
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 07:03
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Me too Actually this was meant mainly in reply to OneTouch who wants to come back to DBPro when it goes Multi Platform ...
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OneTouch
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 18:38
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What's wrong with muti platform?

While you all are playing with Winblows, and trying to write games for it, I am off writing games for PS2 and Game Cube!

People would rather play on consoles than on PC's!
Now don't get me wroung, I know that there is a huge market for games on the pc, I use both consoles and PC to play games, but hey, the majority are going to the PS2 (PS3 2004) !

need more information on game development,
visit http://www.dtagames.com
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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 18:47
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woohoo, PS3, theres something to look forward to.

The PS3 is just a PS2 with a DVD burner and a hard drive, the same specs and everything. And once and for all, stuff C++, if i wanted to spend 2 years learning it I wouldnt be here in this forum. I want to learn PRO because I want to make great looking, professional style games at a fraction of the COST and a fraction of the TIME.

This is a pro forum for people who want to make games in Pro, not to hear how much better C++ is at doing everything. Sure, I know its better, but I just dont have time to learn it.

"It's amazin' what you can do with a computer and access to t'internet"
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OneTouch
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 20:55
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You spend the same amount of time learing DBP as you would C++!
Everyone took my post and went off topic.
The point was, DBP is better than T3DGM and yet if you wanted more out of your program, if you wanted to spend the time learning, C++ is not a bad choice either. It's basicly free.

need more information on game development,
visit http://www.dtagames.com
X is left-right, Y is up-down and Z is near-away
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aprilfan
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 22:33
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Look not to dis Lee or anything or even start another debate, but if you want "click-n-play" get "Neverwinter Nights" it's Aurora toolset is a crap load better than T3dGm. If you want to make a real game then cough up the money for DBPro, it rocks! Or at least it will in a few months when they finish patching and upgrading the day lights out of it.
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OneTouch
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Posted: 26th Aug 2003 23:53
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Agreed!

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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 00:58
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"The PS3 is just a PS2 with a DVD burner and a hard drive, the same specs and everything." [edit by me] add to that a digital tv tuner.

NOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooo!!

The machine you just described is the PSX (confusing name as many refer to the original PS as PSX) The PSX will cost upwards of $600, probably won't be on major release in this country and certainly won't be sucessful. Its a stupid idea, the first major mistake Sony have made. Probably not the start of their downfall, but I can hope.

PS3 will be a brand new console, much better spec, but not too much is known about it at the moment. If they don't include a 60hz mode as standard with EVERY game this time, I WON'T be held responisble for my actions. Preferably as a switch on the machine like an import Saturn - that would just rock ) Oh, and SURELY they won't try and push another console with only 2 joypad ports? Grrr

Quikly Studio Pro. Soon. Honest.
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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 11:59
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Oh yeah, I just realised that was PSX...sorry.

Anyway Im still not looking forward to a PS3, Id rather wait for the new Xbox, or rather the 'Xenon' as its currently known.

"It's amazin' what you can do with a computer and access to t'internet"
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Andrew
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Posted: 27th Aug 2003 13:14
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The ps3 is basically going to be the same - how boaring
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DrakeX
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Posted: 28th Aug 2003 04:08
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no andrew -- read kangaroo's post 2 posts up.

"or another even better language"

oh there will be!

D!

i will make it!

you'll see!

stop looking at me!
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Soyuz
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Posted: 28th Aug 2003 17:41
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Quote: " You spend the same amount of time learing DBP as you would C++! "


I spent six months on C++ and DX and managed to draw some 2D stuff on the screen. A beginner DBPROer could manage that in 1/2 hour! If you want to make a C++/DX game and have no previous experience in programming then I suggest you set aside five years of your life working every evening and weekend. OR just do it in DB Pro in a few weeks.
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MushroomHead
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Posted: 28th Aug 2003 17:58 Edited at: 28th Aug 2003 20:31
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Quote: "Take a look at their TOS or Lisencing what ever the heck it is. To remove THEIR splash screen from your game it will cost you 10 Grand! The icon of your game can not be changed and it says ACNEX on a small grey box!

What a joke!"


I have to disagree with that, I own both A5 pro and A6 pro, The logo restriction was removed in A6 Pro but since A5 pro owners wanted more clarification on this situation, JCL decided to make an exception for them too i.e. both pro editions do NOT require a splash screen anymore. As for the icon, if you own the pro edition, you have total control on startup options.

Quote: "It has 100% supposrt for Dx 9 (with some minor issues)."


This is incorrect again, Conitec's policy is to keep 1 generation behind the latest directx engine ... this is mainly due to compatibility reasons for older hardware ... A6 is based on DirectX 8.1.

The only gripe I have with their engine is the horrible return mechanism for calling functions in other languages, well at least there is a DLL version being planned.
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David T
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Posted: 28th Aug 2003 19:27
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Quote: "No it wasnt, your close though T3DGM was made using the same engine as dbc."


T3DGM was written in darkbasic - lee said so himself. The program was around 7,000 or 14,000 lines if memory serves.

Theres no place like 127.0.0.1
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