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Dark GDK / DGDK Open Source Project

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3d point in space
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Posted: 6th Sep 2010 16:21 Edited at: 6th Sep 2010 16:25
this is a model i created just in secounds using autocad and threed studio. well actually took a hour. but it is breakable mesh and i added it.
I guess I am better at graphics then programing as I have been told.

Go through yourself at a wall.

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jason p sage
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Posted: 7th Sep 2010 00:38
WOW - I feel so lame - not one comment about JGC going open source - thought at least one of you would have been stoked!

anyway - I had to just fix a link - so if you were looking for the download by chance - it's in program announcements and here is the quick link to the project:

http://code.google.com/p/jegas-game-classes/

Matty H
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Posted: 7th Sep 2010 00:55
Quote: "WOW - I feel so lame - not one comment about JGC going open source - thought at least one of you would have been stoked! "


Lol, I have been looking at the features on your website. There is lots there that would be great for S3GE.
I will look more when I get time, there is alot to look at, you really were very busy with DGDK.
I dont know how familiar you are with dosp but could you give us any pointers to what may be the best parts that you think would be useful(and easy to integrate) to us?

I like the look of the satellite heightmap stuff, also the frustrum culling, to what extent are these portable?

haliop
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Posted: 7th Sep 2010 01:32 Edited at: 7th Sep 2010 01:36
sorry Jason ive been working on all day , but i assure you i will look into that!

matty about your last post of sharing the S3GE stuff with the comunity.. it is shared just jump into S3GE and fire your code from within S3GE.. the idea is a complete pack not just A system.

i honestly do not want to share something that is already an open source , if you want to take a look then come in and take a look if you see something you like , copy paste it just dont forget to credit.

but , i (for example) will not convert stuff that use S3GE compoments into DGDK we have already done it towards S3GE no point in turning back..

and i still do not understand why you didnot use S3GE for your game , to tell you the truth all the aspects of your game will improve by alot if you transform into S3GE but i dont now if you have the time for that..

so here i call , all DGDK users , post your desire here and we'll (Tech) let you in the SVN user and pass so you can download what you want and hangout with us a bit to see whats going on.

but remmber no matter what you do and what you take from us , running it from withing S3GE will still be faster and more reliable as we constant try to update it in an avg of once per day.
Techlord has done amazing work and i am online almost the entire day and can help with some stuff not all im still learning it also.

one more thing , Jason , ty for sharing how about joining us?
we can make an educational adventure combining S3GE and Jegas, btw why did you went open - source on version 3.0, last time i visited your site you were selling it no?

p.s Matty goblin rules!
jason p sage
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Posted: 7th Sep 2010 02:09
@Haliop - No prob - I'm a bit sandy eyed from coding myself!

First: Why did I make JGC open Source? Few Reasons

-- Pay Per License or not - I want folks to use the code because it's cool and a lot of work went into - especially as a teaching aid to developers. Version 3.x is particularly good in my bias'd opinion. One guy said - "Why is everything in your classes public? People can break it and you have to support it." My response: So they can break it if they want to: I have no idea what people will come up with and what they might need available in a pinch... so - let them break things... frankly - no one who actually used it ever complained about it... in fact - I expected a LOT more support questions then I ever received by A LOT.

TGC has certainly by now upgraded the DarkGDK.. and the nov2008 beta broke various mesh code - but you can tell by the screen shots (or using darkgdk version(s) BEFORE nov2008 beta) that the code is solid.

In short (too late) I don't have time to support it, it never was a big ticket item or revenue stream - and I don't have the time to keep up with it... but I will try when I can.. I figure I WANT people to use and learn from it... and have fun - whether I have the time or not....

SO - it's a gimmie!

I appreciate the invite for joining the team here but I'm into four major commercial projects now and frankly I'm a bit behind.

I haven't had but a day or two off since spring.

--Jason

3d point in space
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Posted: 7th Sep 2010 02:10 Edited at: 7th Sep 2010 02:38
another breakable item my x files somehow dont load right in dark gdk I am looking in too this does any one know why i get blank screen and my models dont load right. maybe i can hardcode them in using dbbox and stuff and y is 3ds smaller then x files this dont makes sence too me. they worked before know they dont.

Go through yourself at a wall.
jason p sage
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Posted: 7th Sep 2010 02:25 Edited at: 7th Sep 2010 02:25
@Matty HaleWood - Sorry man - just noticed your post!

Quote: "
Lol, I have been looking at the features on your website. There is lots there that would be great for S3GE.
"

Cool!

Quote: "I will look more when I get time, there is alot to look at, you really were very busy with DGDK."

LOL - yes I was - it's all I did for long time. If added up the time I sat waiting for the compiler during my NUMEROUS tests... geesh - shutter to think...


Quote: "I dont know how familiar you are with dosp but could you give us any pointers to what may be the best parts that you think would be useful(and easy to integrate) to us?"


Not familiar with the dosp code base... BUT... I tried to make the source library: 1 configurable (configuration.h) and second.. it has two main KINDS of code:

1: - JFC - Jegas Foundation Classes - these are not necessarily tied to JGC at all. They are generic (enough) classes that are used by JGC - but aren't limited to graphics applications etc. Mostly my own home brew of string functions (as I was previously an assembly programmer and pascal programmer - but only a dabbler in C++... so when I saw some "standard" libraries - I was like... um... I like those - I dislike those... this is what I ended up with


2: JGC - Jegas Game Classes - as you'd expect these are game related

Many coders get really "indignant" about how people should code - I basically did what worked and did my best to keep things as consistent as possible...

I think if you actually download the library, and start looking at it, get it configured and get it so you can run the demos after compiling them yourself - I think you'll see that the DOCUMENTATION is the code... and I think that's why I didn't get to many requests for help.

So... I think I MIGHT be more help if you messed with it and figured it out a bit (easier than you think ) and THEN fire some strategic pointed questions - I MIGHT be more helpful to you simply by working through details versus a blanket question... though I tried to answer your question satisfactory

Did I? Hope So bro! I tried! LOL

--Jason -

3d point in space
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Posted: 7th Sep 2010 03:17 Edited at: 7th Sep 2010 04:26
Oh never mind i think that performance based that it is better to make the object in autocad then harcode it performance is way better that way. I guess that means i have to write down every cordinate from autocad then hardcode it. Much faster load time and much faster performance wise. Know I see why this project is good lol because I wont have to get cordinates manually. This would help tones. with making objects that are primitives and not x files that can be huge.
This is why I think we should get the primatives done like sphere box cylinder stuff like that get that working in the gui at least then worry about the rest later. In fact i going to write a window program that uses primitives and then writes a program that can be exicuted this will help i think but may not be relivate to program. but it might make a great exporter utility for later. Because if you make this current program export x files it will make them huge then they wont be very usefull to use, but if we instead look at making a program with what the user inputed then the exe would be much faster then loading a object.

Go through yourself at a wall.
3d point in space
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Posted: 7th Sep 2010 04:40 Edited at: 7th Sep 2010 04:42
Another thing is that you can have if you are using lex and yacc or a different parser I would have the parser recongnize commands lines that are used for a computer drafter.
like for line i would use user inputs like getting x and y cords like autocad.
Then the end point.
For example autocad uses
@x1,y1,z1 then enter or x1,y1,z1 enter
@x1,y1,z1 will tell the parser from the last point to current point.
or x1,y1,z1 will be an absolute point like autocad.
Same thing with circle, box, cylinder ext.

Go through yourself at a wall.
Matty H
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Posted: 8th Sep 2010 23:03 Edited at: 8th Sep 2010 23:05
Quote: "matty about your last post of sharing the S3GE stuff with the comunity.. it is shared just jump into S3GE and fire your code from within S3GE.. the idea is a complete pack not just A system.

i honestly do not want to share something that is already an open source , if you want to take a look then come in and take a look if you see something you like , copy paste it just dont forget to credit."


Everyone can contribute in whatever way they see fit and that fine, I personally prefer to do it in self contained components with as little dependencies as possible for the advantages I stated earlier.

Quote: "and i still do not understand why you did not use S3GE for your game , to tell you the truth all the aspects of your game will improve by alot if you transform into S3GE but i dont now if you have the time for that.."


I have not looked through S3GE in a while and you may be right, I see it as a WIP and a little untested at the moment, as I want to release my game to the public I just stuck with what I knew for now.



Quote: "So... I think I MIGHT be more help if you messed with it and figured it out a bit (easier than you think ) and THEN fire some strategic pointed questions"


Thanks for your reply Jason, its great that you will around to answer any questions we may have.
I have to catch up with S3GE first myself which is getting pretty large, I have more time come October, maybe I'll be able to extract some goodies from Jegas then, thanks again.


@3d point - Are you starting to make a 3D model creator for Dark Basic? Techlord has a few ideas for this, you have probably spoken to him about it on messenger but if not you should get the details off him.

3d point in space
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Posted: 10th Sep 2010 02:18
no i cant work on this because i working on moving.

Go through yourself at a wall.
TechLord
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Posted: 10th Sep 2010 09:23 Edited at: 11th Sep 2010 07:15
Quote: "I have not looked through S3GE in a while and you may be right, I see it as a WIP and a little untested at the moment"

Thats a popular train of thought for others who are potentially interested and they're waiting to see what S3GE develops in to. Unfortunately, this is resulting in a very slow development time because I'm the only one coding, and other subsystems that need attention like Effects, Particle Systems, Pathfinding, simply aren't being worked on at this time.

S3GE is nothing but constant testing as its currently in a R & D stage. As I stated many times before no matter what game one tries to create, a engine is developed in the process. I'm also fully aware that developing Engine Systems may NOT appear `fun` as developing the game that uses the systems, but, if you dont have a ready-made engine/editor you end up develop systems and applications anyways.

Its all good. Progress has been steady and S3GE is shaping up nicely.

3d point in space
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 01:05 Edited at: 11th Sep 2010 01:08
Hi if Jason is here i did buy your product and only wanted the windows and the physics in it but i lost it. When I reinstalled every thing on computer. That is the problem sometimes with products like this sometimes people lose it. Sry if I inconvinced you about this. And i have not done very much development in dark gdk because I think that opencl is going to be a competitor to direct x. So I might switch back to opengl.

Go through yourself at a wall.
jason p sage
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 01:09 Edited at: 11th Sep 2010 01:10
Not at all. Also THANK YOU for buying it!

I have recently made it free / open source with MIT license so folks could use it basically how they see fit without selling it etc. [edit] Meaning turn around and sell my source code as a product. Making a game and selling it is definitely OK TO DO![/edit]

So - getting the software back is REALLY easy now.. however if I had known you lost it (before I made it free) I would have looked up your records and verified ya and given ya a link.. Never hesitate to ask! (Stinks to lose software man!)

Anyway - I don't want to hi-jack this thread.. but there is anew Jegas JGC game classes program announcement thread (because original got locked due to age) ... any ways - you should be navigate there and get to Jegas, LLC ... follow the links to the main product page for JGC and there you'll find the link to the Google Project page complete with the v3.1 zip 33,000 lines of source code for the taking! (Worked hard on that).

--Jason

TechLord
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 09:33
Hi Jason, I just wanted you to know I do appreaciate your notification on the release of Jegas JGC game classes. I've been very busy with S3GE and I will check it out as soon as I get some free time. My motivation for coding on S3GE is very high right now and I'm taking full advantage of it.

jason p sage
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Posted: 11th Sep 2010 17:08
Excellent - I hope you having fun! I find making the engines as fun as the games me self
--Jason

marlou
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Posted: 13th Sep 2010 05:03 Edited at: 13th Sep 2010 05:31
Hi guys, Im currently working on a fast vector and matrix library. It will be coded with inline assembly and SSE assembly instructions. I made prototype assembly codes and C++ codes and did speed tests and it runs around 40% faster on my machine when the functions are still CPU bound. However at vector calculations iterated above 10000 times, most of my test functions become memory bound thus an equal speed in calculations.

My vector and matrix library will be faster than NVdia PhysX Software mode since PhysX does not use SSE. Read it here.

Im planning to make a fast 3D pathfinding solution and physics engine for our group here. Anyways, i'll also bring it into DOSP once it's finished.

EDIT:
...if you want it.

When a person has nothing but a dream, can he dare to dream.
Hassan
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Posted: 13th Sep 2010 05:34
Matty already made the physics library and it has somewhat decent amount of functions so i think it's a waste of time making another, anyhow i think the pathfinding will be very useful for the project (not sure, but i think someone was working on it (but he's either lazy or not posting updates (well, possibly gave it up))

glad to see the project still going guys! and techlord yes you really should take full advantage of the motivation while it's available

marlou
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Posted: 13th Sep 2010 06:39
It was me responsible for the pathfinding.
The ReCast and NavMesh library can still be improved. I tried comparing it to commercial Havok AI and realized that the library can be modified to function like the commercial Havok AI. I wonder if I can request this feature from the maintainer or roll my own from scratch as base it on ReCast and Navmesh and features in Havok AI.

The physics engine is for my second group near my place. We're trying to make things from scratch for experience and learning.
Im trying to beat compiler optimized assembly which isn't an easy task to do but i've seen good results lately.

When a person has nothing but a dream, can he dare to dream.
Matty H
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Posted: 13th Sep 2010 12:50
@marlou - If you are making a physics library anyway for your other project and it turns out to be better/faster than PhysX then I would be happy to see it used in S3GE.

Hassan
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Posted: 13th Sep 2010 18:44 Edited at: 14th Sep 2010 17:04
Quote: "Original post by marlou
It was me responsible for the pathfinding."


Haha, well i dont memorize names good luck working on AI (and/or physics)

TechLord
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Posted: 13th Sep 2010 20:19 Edited at: 14th Sep 2010 03:50
Quote: "glad to see the project still going guys! and techlord yes you really should take full advantage of the motivation while it's available "


I agree Hassan and I'm really trying to coordinate it all. However, its difficult when folks want to go in different direction then where the project is steered. The Core Team has selected Libraries to support several subsystems required: Fulcrum (Physics), LUA (Scripting), DarkNet (Networking), BlitzTerrain(Terrain). There are a few missing. The point is, S3GE doesn't need another physics, scripting, networking lib. S3GE will never be completed if folks are re-inventing these libs or not willing to work on other subsystems.

I've been working on a UI subsystem that uses the selected Libs. S3GE is missing a few more subsystems such as a Particle Engine, Path-Finding (A* and NavMeshes). These systems need attention. S3GE is using Fulcrum/Physx for 3D collision and physics simulation and the Recast NavMesh needs to use it for collision if it does not have built-in geometry collision support.

The Engine/Editor/Games are designed and built in layers: Libs--> Core Systems --> Sub Systems --> Applications --> Games. This is how S3GE is being developed and its a R & D phase, developing Core Systems and Sub-Systems. Overall, progress has been very good in my opinion, but, S3GE isn't quite ready for developing Apps and Games yet. We will get there! We just need to keep up the momentum, and to do this we need keep adding different layers and work with ones that exist, not re-invent them over and over.

I understand that there appears to be 1 bazillion things going on, a half-ton posts in this thread, which makes it very tough to communicate and catch up on it all. Which is why I'm on Windows Live Messenger practically 24hrs a day. The best way to get into this Project, is to simply dig into it and see the direction its going in, is to:

1) Get the SVN, compile, and run the latest build.
2) Get on Messenger and discuss it.

marlou
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Posted: 14th Sep 2010 03:42
Quote: "@marlou - If you are making a physics library anyway for your other project and it turns out to be better/faster than PhysX then I would be happy to see it used in S3GE."


That's nice to hear. But PhysX is faster when processed on the GPU hardware. It's just slow when its in software.

When a person has nothing but a dream, can he dare to dream.
haliop
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Posted: 14th Sep 2010 11:02
i actually agree with Marlou
if we can manage a fast physics replacments for computer that dont use a hardcore GPU we actually get accesses to:

NetBooks, Older Pcs(not needed but still...) , New but Cheap pcs

tablets..
i think the most intersting is the NetBook , cause of many ppl today getting these cause of their price.
Michael P
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Posted: 14th Sep 2010 15:47
Don't reinvent the wheel. Developing a physics library from scratch will take alot of time and effort that could be better used elsewhere and it probably won't end up being faster or more stable than PhysX.

marlou
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Posted: 15th Sep 2010 04:09
It most likely will be. You're right. Thanks for the advice. I will keep that in mind.
But i will do it in parallel with other useful things.
My steps towards a physics library will serve me for more purposes than you would imagine. I like to reach different goals simultaneously while interleaving steps together.
Creating a physics engine is part of many goals I have in mind. It's in a scheme of a network of possibilities.
I will also use any failure that arises to my advantage.
Thanks for the concern.

When a person has nothing but a dream, can he dare to dream.
jason p sage
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Posted: 15th Sep 2010 04:50 Edited at: 15th Sep 2010 05:02
You might want to read this article published in O'Reilly's recent book "98 Things Every Programmer Should Know"

The real cool thing was the author who had an article saying never rewrite the wheel... O'Reilly didn't publish his article.

[ edit: PS not trying to cause trouble - but I just think that some tangents are very educational - even if they don't make it into the final project ]

marlou
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Posted: 15th Sep 2010 05:22 Edited at: 15th Sep 2010 05:25
Wow..It's your article..
The opposing article didn't make it..Congratz on your article jason.
There is always a trade off between decisions. Just make sure the decisions fit directly to your main goals and purpose. And the negative impact that your decisions make are things that you can deal with and handle.

I'm still not finished with my requirement analysis for the physics engine. I don't have a time table for the steps and subtasks. I still am not sure if the time and skill required is within my resources and capabilities and also if the end results would help reach the different goals, i have in mind and if the result would be satisfactory or beyond. If the requirements isn't within my resources and capabilities, then i will just have to lessen the requirements and features of the physics engine or probably just back out of it as early as possible. But I'm really interested in learning these kind of stuff.

If it weren't for this, I wouldn't have gotten interested with assembly. At least i increased my skills a bit.

Results:
Acquired new skill. Didn't level up towards specific goal.

When a person has nothing but a dream, can he dare to dream.
marlou
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Posted: 16th Sep 2010 03:10 Edited at: 16th Sep 2010 03:13
Hi Matty,

Im trying to make a physicspathfinder for s3ge. Can applying velocity on the fulcrum character controller still make it slide and climb? Also can the character controller be affected by external force?
I want to use velocity so that it would be affected by external forces. It will be useful in physics affected pathfinding where a pathfinder gets knockbacked,pushed or pulled off course and then gets back to pathfinding.

EDIT:
s3gePathfind version 0.1 is finished.
Next task is to create physicspathfinder for version 0.2.

When a person has nothing but a dream, can he dare to dream.
Matty H
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Posted: 16th Sep 2010 17:50
You can't apply forces to character controllers, they are a special case of kinematic actor.
Kinematic actors are used when you want direct control over an object, so they are not really part of the simulation in that sense.

You could try to create a character controller from a dynamic actor for the behaviour you desire although this brings up more issues, hence the reason for character controllers in physics simulations. Physics affected pathfinding may be more suited to vehicles or anything using dynamic actors.

marlou
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Posted: 17th Sep 2010 03:46
I can't have a sliding and climbing effect along with a dynamic effect.
Maybe i can go around it. Make a dynamic actor and character controller for the pathfinder. I will remove the character controller from physics calculations when it is collided by dynamic objects and not the static objects and enable its dynamic actor allowing it to be pushed, knockedoff and pulled. And when its velocity<=SMALL_EPSILON, change it back to character controller to enable slide and climb. But I dont think the impulse can be calculated correctly with this method.
In any case, +1 requirement for my other team's engine.

When a person has nothing but a dream, can he dare to dream.
Matty H
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Posted: 17th Sep 2010 17:15
Character controllers are often interchanged with dynamic actors(ragdolls) when it is necessary so what you suggest is very workable.
Let me know if you have any more problems/questions.

TechLord
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2010 14:53 Edited at: 23rd Sep 2010 14:56
Here's a brief update on S3GE/MAUI/ and more. MAUI now has gizmo behaviors for Pushboxes, Checkboxes, Radioboxes, Menuboxes, and Textboxes. I'm simultaneously building a Map Editor to build and test additional MAUI Behaviors. Next on the agenda are Gadgets. A MAUI Gadget is a composite of two or more Gizmos that serve a single purpose such as Slideboxes, Listboxes, Dropdown Boxes and much more.


S3GEd Wip (Click to Enlarge)


I have also been gearing up MAUI to handle 3D Gizmos/Gadgets. This has required me to extends MAUI XML Parser to load all 3D/Physics content into S3GE (I will most likely use it for all content loading). In the screenshot above, I loaded a terrain into S3GE and applied all the characteristics of gizmo to it and works fine. Potentially all 3D objects loaded from MAUI can be registered it for interactivity with the player.



In earlier post, I theorized such interactivity could be useful although, I had no real idea or proof. So I'm testing my theory, and so far my results are surpassing expectations. S3GE is shaping up nicely into what I call a Interactive-centric Game Engine.

There have been lots of changes to S3GE build, so, its highly recommended those interested update their SVN. We have also discovered problems with it running on Windows 7. One of these issues is loading data from the registry using DGDK commands. Startup Config info is now stored in the registry and youll need to add these entries to run (this can be by passed in code). There a prob with this using Win 7.

TechLord
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Posted: 27th Sep 2010 10:02 Edited at: 27th Sep 2010 11:56
S3GE gets the TournamentBlitz Event Management System. TournamentBlitz powered by HPQuest.com, is a Web-based Management System for Skill-based Cash Tournament Games. The TBEMS_SDK transforms any game into Cash Based Tournament Games in which credits can be purchased via paypal.


Click to Download the Insectoids Demo (Requires DX7).
U/P: guest/guest


TechLord
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Posted: 30th Sep 2010 21:40 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2010 04:33
As some of you are aware, DOSP Project-Trio is divided into 3 distinct phases Engine, Editor, Game. I often find myself defending this design methodology from the following question `why not build a game first?` I'd always justified myself by referring to well known game Engines such as UDK, Torque, Unity, and others, Or by stating `you cannot build a game without a engine`.

With a smirk on my face, I wondered how soon-to-be game developers did not know what a game engine is, why editors are needed, how a game is made. I thought I knew it all, but, recently I took time to think about why is this question so popular. Then it dawned on me. The order of the stages doesn't matter because it all requires planning, testing, and implementation. Ultimately, you have all three at the end.

So with that said, the I'm proud to announce that the DOSP Core Team has shifted our design model slightly. We have elected to develop a simple Multi-player FPS based on Capture The Flag, Coppers and Robbers. This game will server as our testbed evolving as we build up Super 3D Game Engine, Editor, and World.

At the end of it all, we wont have a simple FPS. In fact, the content and name will change over the course of development. Our ultimate goal is to produce a All-in-One Visual Game Creation System for RPG, RTS, Fighter, Sports, Puzzle and many other genres.

IMO, developing a game engine isnt the tough part, its the content for the game to be used by the engine. The lack of plentiful unique Media Assets for models, textures, music, etc has pretty much killed most of my game ideas. I would be willing to bet that this is the problem that most would-be-great game developers face.

Providing Super 3D Game Engine with Editors to create unique content in a very easy to use manner has become my highest priority. Inspired by tools like Spore Creature Creator and others, I believe that models, textures, music, scripts, etc, can all be created with modularity, inheritance, layers, lots of modifiers and automated tools. I also know that all of this can be provided using the Game Engine itself.

Yes, I know it sounds like a massive under-taking, and to be honest, i know it is (and has been thus far). However, I truly believe that consolidation in every aspect of the development process is the key to pulling this off, and will ultimately payoff with the rapid development of games with unique content.

jason p sage
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Posted: 30th Sep 2010 22:04
Nice Post.

TechLord
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Posted: 1st Oct 2010 22:15

Hot Goblins by Matty Halewood
(S3GE Fulcrum/Physx Developer)


Hassan
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2010 00:29
very nice and fun game, i found 3 bugs so far: first off, sometimes when you click an object, it shows an error and crashes, and sometimes, when you click one, you don't see it half-transparent in the middle of screen, and when you drop it says actor not loaded or whatever, then crashes

second bug is, sometimes one or two of the text sprites stucks on screen forever

last one, sometimes when you throw the object it's not in the place it should be at, some edge hits a stone and it goes somewhere un expected (dunno if it's me that suck at aiming haha)

and this is not a bug, but behind the object's icon on top, there is the quantity, shouldn't it be OVER the icon?

oh forgot to mention (hehe)


once again, nice and fun game! was it made with s3ge?

haliop
User Banned
Posted: 2nd Oct 2010 01:11
no,
Hot Goblins has been created induvidualy by Matty.
however it uses S3GE Physics Enegine - Fulcrum,
and a very early stages of Trixie and Mecs (R&D) , actually working on a game without having good editor is very well felt while devleoping.

however it dosent uses any of S3GE functions , neighter S3GE Team Learnings (R&D) , S3GE Enhance and ofcourse Maui.
Matty H
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Location: England
Posted: 4th Oct 2010 02:45
@Hassan - Thanks for trying, I knew about most of those issues and I think they are all fixed now.

My game is all but finished, a big thanks to the S3GE team. Its great to have you guys right there on messenger to help me out.

A special thanks to Haliop, he come up with the idea to customise my goblins, and then he went off and made the model and all the textures. I owe you one man, just give me a shout if you ever need help, thanks.

I dont want to see another goblin for at least a week so dont send any around to my house

TechLord
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Posted: 16th Oct 2010 13:07
Think DOSP/S3GE is at a stand still? WRONG! I've been working on the network side of S3GE, more specifically the Server/Client Model. I LOVE NETWORKING and I'm a proponent of using common data formats and open standards. Bottom-line: there is no way to over look Open Systems Interconnection Model when it comes to networking.

Networking is all about messaging. A simple example of a message could contain just the values of a Player1's location on the game map. This message could formatted like: float PosX,float PosY,float PosZ,float RotX,float RotY,float RotZ

The message is packetized and transmitted to all the receiver(s). Once the receiver retrieves the packet, it extracts the values and moves a respresentation of Player1 on its map.

The example is very simple, but, things get complicated when you want to send more than just location info to more than a two-dozen receivers. So for S3GE, I'm devising a Application-Layer protocol to handle messaging in a very flexible manner. I've have been reviewing several OSI Standards: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XMPP, SIP, HTTP and RTP.

It was a no brainer to select HTTP for communications with Internet Servers, however, S3GE Server-Client Communications is slightly more challenging. Working with HTTP has been extremely beneficial and I've elected to devise a SIP-like protocol to handle setting up Sessions between S3GE Server-Client.

Once the session is setup, a persistent connection will handle the transmission of real-time (possibily streamed) messaging. This messaging can contain data such as player location, inputs, value changes, etc. The Real-time Transport Protocol looks like an ideal protocol to support this.

jason p sage
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Posted: 16th Oct 2010 15:10
You're going to use persistent connections and an Open API for the messaging?

A: Don't persistent (TCP) connections take up more resources on server side? It might not be enough to matter. Just asking.

B: I'm a fan of Open API's and Open Icon formats for applications etc. But for video gaming; with posers writing hacks to cheat evidently a lot; are you considering anti-cheat mechanisms?

No I don't expect fort knox - just asking. Sometimes having something no one recognizes with a few "cipher" manipulations of the packets etc. is enough.

--Jason

TechLord
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Posted: 16th Oct 2010 18:00
Quote: "You're going to use persistent connections and an Open API for the messaging?

A: Don't persistent (TCP) connections take up more resources on server side? It might not be enough to matter. Just asking.

B: I'm a fan of Open API's and Open Icon formats for applications etc. But for video gaming; with posers writing hacks to cheat evidently a lot; are you considering anti-cheat mechanisms?

No I don't expect fort knox - just asking. Sometimes having something no one recognizes with a few "cipher" manipulations of the packets etc. is enough."


Hi Jason, I'm not sure what you mean by using Open API for messaging, but, I'm referencing some protocols in the OSI Model to devise Application-Layer messaging for S3GE. There are Open Standards for security protocols at every level within the OSI Model. HTTP/FTP/TCP/UDP etc are all part of OSI.

I should have use the words virtually persistent. S3GE Network Protocols use both TCP and UDP dependent on the requirements of speed and security.

DarkNet has Encryption capabilities and Developers can apply other security at various levels of the communications. As the Engine is open source it is the Developer's responsibility to integrate additional security features.

jason p sage
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Posted: 16th Oct 2010 19:54
Makes sense. Thanx for the response.

Michael P
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Location: London (UK)
Posted: 16th Oct 2010 21:00
I will be emailing you v2.0 tomorrow after I have fixed the installer. You can write your own TCP mode for each of these protocol. Then if you want I can test and debug the code, and then include it with DarkNet.

TechLord
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Posted: 16th Oct 2010 23:36 Edited at: 17th Oct 2010 00:19
Quote: "I will be emailing you v2.0 tomorrow after I have fixed the installer. You can write your own TCP mode for each of these protocol. Then if you want I can test and debug the code, and then include it with DarkNet."

MICHAEL PRYOR IS AWESOME!!! I'm really excited about this.

@jason p sage, I also need to add, that S3GE Network Architecture includes a Centralized Host Server that allows S3GE to integrate with Web-based Applications and truly operate as a Multi-Genre Game Creation System [Online]. The Host Server provides robust Web-based Services such as Game Server Location, Moderated Open Repository for Media/Data Assets, TournamentBlitz, Sofware Updates and Addons. These Web Services feature all of the Server-side Security features commonly used on the WWW such as User Authentication.

Cuddle Bunniezzz 12
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Posted: 16th Oct 2010 23:47
@TechLord

I tried out the hot goblins game, nice idea. Though, I did get a fatal error with it, and it froze and crashed.

I was on level three, I misplaced the ramp box, and I wanted to see what would happen if I just let the goblins run around for a bit. Well, after pressing "Try Again," this time, I positioned the box for when it would drop, it would pass the level. But when I pushed "Drop," I got an error saying there was an issue with either the fulcrum physics or Nvidia Physx. Then it froze and crashed.

If you were to make this into more of a game, I'd allow it so that the user can make the goblins move faster.

@Micheal Pryor
On an something unrelated, did you check into those issues I was having with DarkNET 2.0 a few days ago?

http://ref.darkgdk.us/ <- Online DarkGDK Refernece. More content coming soon.
Matty H
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Location: England
Posted: 17th Oct 2010 01:25
@Cuddle Bunniezzz - That is an old version of Hot Goblins, that bug has been fixed, it also now has Goblin customisation. It was entered into the appup compo but it did not win anything. It was not quite finished, needs more polish, lights and a couple of options etc, I also dont think it runs great on a Netbook right now, I will improve it, thanks for trying though.

@Tech - Can you remove it from the server, when the final version is done I will put up a six level demo for people to try out, thanks.

haliop
User Banned
Posted: 17th Oct 2010 11:02
helloooo everyone
i was out abit
cause of my pc got hacked
and im moving out

i am making some changes in how i will design next products
and since im moving out i really need some money.

so i'll be about 80 precent of my time offline working on my next title and S3GE will get about 20 and i'll be online for it .

i just lost about 200 GB of data including models , animations , textures, code.. and all kind of stuff
trowed my harddrive it got F upped , i'll be in conntect with you in about a month or two , need to save up the Internet costs for a new HD ..
talk to you soon , keep up the good work.
Michael P
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Location: London (UK)
Posted: 18th Oct 2010 02:23 Edited at: 18th Oct 2010 02:24
I have emailed TechLord the latest release.

If you want to create your own TCP modes you have to use the internal classes. At the highest level you have NetInstanceServer, NetInstanceClient and NetInstanceBroadcast.

To create a TCP mode extend NetModeTcp and pass an instantiation of your class to a NetSocketTCP object which you then pass to a NetInstanceServer or NetInstanceClient object.

If you are interested in performance its worth looking at the following classes:
Packet: you can use this as a high performance string class with in built multi-threaded encryption and decryption.
StoreQueue.
StoreVector.

If you are interested in multi-threading there are some very good classes which make high performance multi-threading very easy to implement:
ThreadSingle.
ThreadSingleGroup.
ThreadSingleMessage.
ThreadSingleMessageKeepLast.
ThreadSingleMessageKeepLastUser.

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