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Dark GDK / DGDK Open Source Project

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TechLord
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Posted: 8th Aug 2011 06:02 Edited at: 8th Aug 2011 06:03
Quote: "Even though you label this as some sort of TOG thing, will we still be able to export games as their own and distribute them? And if so, what are the licences for that?"
You can export and sell your games & media created with S3TOG(S3GP) without any licensing restrictions.

Gibba gobba
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Posted: 8th Aug 2011 07:35
Hey, just to ask, when you have the program/tools at a points you like, would it be alright if I made a video tutorial series for it?

Hello one and all.......
TechLord
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Posted: 8th Aug 2011 07:58
Quote: "Hey, just to ask, when you have the program/tools at a points you like, would it be alright if I made a video tutorial series for it?"
Of Course. I don't want to do all the work - lol.

Gibba gobba
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Posted: 9th Aug 2011 04:26
Thanx man! You shan't regret it. lol

Hello one and all.......
Gibba gobba
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Posted: 11th Aug 2011 07:59
Hey, have you showed the TGC guys this project yet? I bet they'd take a liking to it and might give you help!

Hello one and all.......
TechLord
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Posted: 12th Aug 2011 09:30
Quote: "Hey, have you showed the TGC guys this project yet? I bet they'd take a liking to it and might give you help!"
I have reinforcements outside of the TGC Community joining. Thanks to this Help Wanted Ad.

Gibba gobba
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Posted: 14th Aug 2011 03:54
Very effective looking! Good luck!

Hello one and all.......
TechLord
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Posted: 14th Aug 2011 10:36 Edited at: 8th Jan 2012 04:16
Chat with Techlord via Mibbit.com on the #S3GP Channel. Open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Techlord available 04:00-12:00 & 21:00-01:00 Greenwich Mean Time.


TechLord
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Posted: 17th Aug 2011 15:59 Edited at: 17th Aug 2011 16:10
Quote: "
18:13 *** Gibbagobba joined #S3GP
18:14 Gibbagobba You really f* me man, I mean really, what the f* man
18:14 *** Gibbagobba quit (Quit:
"


I'm not sure what you meant by this statement on the S3GP Channel, would you mind explaining. If you desire a real-time discussion I'm usually in the chat room 04:00-12:00 & 21:00-01:00 Greenwich Mean Time.

Gibba gobba
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Posted: 17th Aug 2011 23:37
What? What was that about?

Hello one and all.......
JTK
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Posted: 18th Aug 2011 01:42
I think that's what he's trying to find out too.

Regards,
JTK
Gibba gobba
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Posted: 18th Aug 2011 09:51
Where did you get that from?

Hello one and all.......
TechLord
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2011 17:26 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2011 17:27
The `S3GP Components Refactoring` Initiative has commenced! I initiated the process yesterday. I'm refactoring all the Framework to use components and needless to say its a lot of work. However, I believe this implementation will save tons of work and make the code more agile. Additionally, progress has been much faster than anticipated.

For those who have been following DOSP, I want to first say thank you for tuning in. I truly understand how confusing and overwhelming all this information can be. Secondly, I want to say that after two years of constant redesigning, reorganizing, recoding, and recoding I can now see the project solidifying into something tangible.

The wiki is playing a key role in organizing this information and building a solid Roadmap for the construction of the Platform. There are several different web portals involved with DOSP (Code/Media Repository, FLOG, Wiki, Tasks, Web Chat), which unfortunately adds to the confusion. I do have intentions of providing some virtual and visual cohesion by applying a nice RED Theme.

This thread has served as the Entry Portal (top post), Blog, Chat and many other things for DOSP. Although DOSP doesn't use DGDK directly, it was born here in the TGC community and incorporates many of the principles behind DGDK into its design. It is my goal to keep the project alive til completion and I will keep posting here to share my experience.

Gibba gobba
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Posted: 26th Aug 2011 01:09 Edited at: 26th Aug 2011 09:28
Good luck, bro!

EDIT: Just for clarification, what do you mean exactly when you say progress is faster now? This is quite a lot to understand.

Hello one and all...
TechLord
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Posted: 26th Aug 2011 11:11 Edited at: 26th Aug 2011 11:14
Quote: "EDIT: Just for clarification, what do you mean exactly when you say progress is faster now? This is quite a lot to understand."

Hi Gibba gobba,

To clarify, I was expecting the recoding of all the Engine Framework Systems (Ogre, DarkNet, DarkLUA, Scenergy, etc) with the preliminary Components to take weeks, but, I've managed to convert 1 system per day with Rendering, Scripting, and Network complete. At this rate I should be able to start work on the new GUI system within a week per the Roadmap.

Gibba gobba
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Posted: 29th Aug 2011 06:44
One more thing for now:
What was that weird quote you posted with my name in it?
Quote: "18:13 *** Gibbagobba joined #S3GP
18:14 Gibbagobba You really f* me man, I mean really, what the f* man
18:14 *** Gibbagobba quit (Quit:
""


Hello one and all...
Clonkex
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Posted: 29th Aug 2011 08:03
I'm a bit confused as to what this is, exactly.

What is it? Is it free? Is it available to download?

I mean, it's been going for 2 years, is there anything to show for it?

I just want a little explanation.....that's all....

Clonkex

Gibba gobba
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Posted: 29th Aug 2011 08:10
As far as I know, it will be completely free.
However, there is no download yet. It hasn't even come far enough to show pics or progress. Some stuff has been done, but TechLord is mainly trying to get the idea out there.

Hello one and all...
Gibba gobba
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Posted: 29th Aug 2011 10:49
Hey, TechLord. One big question has been bugging me for a long time. I know you say S3GE will contain a complete tool-set for full game creation, but will it include animation creation? Not just that, but a cutscene editor as well? Like full custom animated cutscenes with full control. And how will it work?
On a side note, will their be physics properties control for different objects? Such as clothing on characters, wires, ropes, etc.

Hello one and all...
DevilSolution
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Posted: 29th Aug 2011 14:07
Hi guys, i think i understand what this project's purpose is and id like to get onboard with it, i have a uni project next year to create a game (i think they want it in java but blegh) however im currently only playing around with rendering objects, moving objects around the screen and editing how the camera works. No physics or actual game engines as yet. I do however have some py script recipes from py game for actual game engines and physics etc which seems to be more like the back end of the dark gdk. I'd be interested in finding out what the project would require me too do and what the final outcome from the project strives to achieve (a free graphical game maker?) because im pretty content with programming the game, although a free library with some nice built in features would be nice....(1st person 3rd person camera switch / specific objects like characters and guns with their own physics and things like water and other entities which otherwise arent supplied with dark gdk but are possible through it?) these things interest me very much and i'd be more than happy to create some code for the project if in the long run i get access to wider array of features from dark gdk. However as i already stated im new to dark gdk so im still playing with the basics. cheers

REMIX
Clonkex
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Posted: 29th Aug 2011 23:59
Quote: "...TechLord is mainly trying to get the idea out there."


...and has been doing so for 2 years...

@DevilSolution:

I think this is a program, not a plugin or library for DGDK. It's for making cool games, of any type.

Clonkex

Gibba gobba
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Posted: 30th Aug 2011 00:46
True, it is actually using other things more than DGDK. It's a full software toolkit, as he says...

Hello one and all...
Hassan
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Posted: 30th Aug 2011 00:52
as far as i remember from my last conversation with TechLord, he told me that this is going to be an exe file which will run a text file (possibly encrypted) as if it's a script, and the whole game is in this file, the exe will simulate it

Gibba gobba
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Posted: 30th Aug 2011 01:07
Sounds pretty efficient...
Just wonder how much data it will cost.

Hello one and all...
Clonkex
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Posted: 30th Aug 2011 05:16
Quote: "Just wonder how much data it will cost."


What?? Has the world's currency changed??

Clonkex

TechLord
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Posted: 30th Aug 2011 09:40 Edited at: 30th Aug 2011 11:16
Quote: "I'm a bit confused as to what this is, exactly.

What is it? Is it free? Is it available to download?"

The intent of DOSP is to provide a FREE Commercial Grade GUI-Driven 3D Application/Game Development Platform capable of supporting popular game genres out-of-box without the need to program. No matter if its a RPG, FPS, RTS, Fighter, Simulation, or whatever.

A Super 3D Game Platform (S3GP), consisting of a:

1. Server/Client Engine (S3GE) - Powers Editor Suite and Game World.
2. Editor Suite (S3GEd) - Content and Logic Creation for use in Game World.
3. Game World (S3GW) - Real-time Interactive Multi-user Sandbox.

S3GP is designed with emphasis on Scalable Multi-user Content Creation to promote collaborative creativity and rapid production. S3GP provides a Engine and Editor Suite to create unique assets easily, experiment with new game mechanics, and devise multiple profit streams with a built-in programmable Micro-transactions API.

SVN is the best resource in providing a real-time status and update. Unfortunately, I broke many of the previously working systems with the refactoring of all the Engine's Framework to use components. I'm working frivolously to get these systems operational with improved performance. As soon as this is achieved, I'll provide a downloadable application which should at minimum provide a FPS Camera and basic GUI elements.

Quote: "I mean, it's been going for 2 years, is there anything to show for it?"


It has taken time to define and organize S3GP, because, of its grand uberlicious vision. However, it is indeed alive and has been future-proofed for a longevity. What is available for show is this massive forum thread that has pretty much served as my blog. If you follow it along, you can see the project's transformation take place over the course of two years.

The best times to catch me on Mibbit for real-time discussion is 04:00-12:00 & 21:00-01:00 Greenwich Mean Time. I keep the #S3GP Channel (IRC Link: irc://irc.mibbit.net/S3GP) open so all parties can post on demand.

The truth of the matter, is a Super 3D Game Platform can not be created auto-magically and not by one person. It takes a massive amount of people power to design and develop one. I was well aware of this from day one of the project which is why I opted for open source and online availablility. Its all about the consolidation and collaboration.

Personally, I'm tired of being behind the Technology. I'm tired of being in last place. I want to prove that a group of Indie Game Devs in a community such as this can work together to create an Advanced State-of-the-art Game Development System for the future.

However, I'm at slight disadvantage. The Commercial Dev Teams have 100+ of the Best-in-the-world actively working on their products, for DOSP you currently have only lil ole me. I'm currently the acting Lead Software Engineer, Lead Web Application Administrator, Lead Technical Document Writer, and Project Coordinator.

My C++ Programming knowledge and skill has evolved significantly in the last two years and I attribute this to DGDK. With this new found knowledge, S3GP has evolved beyond DGDK and no longer incorporates it in the form of C++ Source Code. For the project to survive a decision was made to adopt the Object Oriented Graphics Rendering Engine (OGRE) and many other C++ Libraries. These libraries are free, multi-platform, open-source, and supported. S3GP retains and implements the principles behind DGDK into its procedural Scripting API.

If someone has OGRE Models, other than the OGRE head, we can load them into S3GE and snap screenshots.

The lack of collaborative support on TGC for a project such as this has motivated me to reached out to other websites such as GameDev.net to garner support in the development of S3GP. I have never had intention of developing S3GP by my lonesome and as long as I keep working towards self-sustainability, I feel it will eventually get the support it needs.

The Engine is undergoing a massive overhaul to incorporate many software engineering design patterns employed in professional game engine development. I discovered these design patterns after visiting other C++ Game Development Communities. There is a software design solution for practically every game development problem. Prior knowledge to these would have saved considerable development time. Better late than never I reckon.

TechLord
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Posted: 30th Aug 2011 09:50
Quote: "Hey, TechLord. One big question has been bugging me for a long time. I know you say S3GE will contain a complete tool-set for full game creation, but will it include animation creation? Not just that, but a cutscene editor as well? Like full custom animated cutscenes with full control. And how will it work?
On a side note, will their be physics properties control for different objects? Such as clothing on characters, wires, ropes, etc."
Yes, S3G Editor Suite will include Character, Vehicles/Machine, Scene, Camera Director, Physics Animation Editors.

Clonkex
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Posted: 30th Aug 2011 12:32 Edited at: 30th Aug 2011 12:33
Well, that's one heck of a description!

Quote: "for DOSP you currently have only lil ole me"


Well, why didn't you ask? I'd be happy to help. Really, I want to! This sounds really cool if we can get it going properly. I see absolutely no reason why this project shouldn't be possible if some people really get stuck into it.

What are you using OGRE for?

I'm just amazed this project has stayed alive for so long without anything to show for itself, not even any screenshots. But with me helping I'm sure we can fix that pretty quickly.

To be honest, I had been recently thinking about writing a game creation suite, but now I've discovered this, I've dropped any ideas about making my own. I'll just help you!

Tell me what I can help with

Clonkex

TechLord
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Posted: 30th Aug 2011 16:32 Edited at: 30th Aug 2011 20:44
Quote: "What are you using OGRE for?"
Graphics Rendering. You can check out OGRE's feature and addon list. Ogre also has a dedicated developer team and strong community.

Quote: "I'm just amazed this project has stayed alive for so long without anything to show for itself, not even any screenshots. But with me helping I'm sure we can fix that pretty quickly. "
I'm dedicated to this project as it represents everything many who come to TGC desire in a Game Creation Platform. Screenshots and videos where available prior to the migration to Ogre. I can post a vid the of the current build with a rotating OGRE Head, but, honestly that isn't all that exciting. It is my opinion that serious inquiries download the Project SVN to commit and update in real-time. Check out the SVN Setup.

Quote: "Tell me what I can help with "
Once you have the SVN setup, you can select Tasks to work on. We create and assign Tasks according to the RoadMap(WIP). The Roadmap is devised from the Design Discussions. S3GP needs Programmers, Artists, Writers, and Testers throughout its development. I'm hoping that Contributors will go outside their comfort zone and challenge themselves to take on the complex tasks.

We can continue this discussion on Chat or email. Chat with me real-time via Mibbit.com on the #S3GP Channel. Open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
I'm usually available 04:00-12:00 & 21:00-01:00 Greenwich Mean Time.

Clonkex
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Posted: 31st Aug 2011 00:35
Quote: "Graphics Rendering."


I thought you were using DGDK? I don't know of any way to use DGDK without rendering anything.

Quote: "It is my opinion that serious inquiries download the Project SVN to commit and update in real-time. Check out the SVN Setup. "


Ok, I'm installing TortoiseSVN now, but I've never used SVN before. I will see if I can figure it out...

Right, it now says it's transferring data....woh, ok now it's actually transferring files! Yay, it's working!

Ok, I'm also on Mibbit right now and you aren't replying.

Quote: "I'm hoping that Contributors will go outside their comfort zone and challenge themselves to take on the complex tasks."


I'm your guy! I love to learn new programming stuff (as long as it's not maths). I also like to put lots of my time into helping others, because my projects aren't worth continuing. I'm also homeschooled, so I can put LOTS of time in.

Clonkex

JTK
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Posted: 31st Aug 2011 05:30
Quote: "Techlord available 04:00-12:00 & 21:00-01:00 Greenwich Mean Time"


Basically, if "Australia" is truly your home, then there is a difference of about 11-hours between you two... Therefore, if he's online from 04:00am-Noon (which is typically true - Greenwhich Mean Time), then that would be about 3:00pm-11:00pm your time...

Now, your post above (30th Aug 2011 17:35 [5:35pm my time or 4:35pm his (note: that's a best guess)]) would have missed him by about 4 and 1/2-hours or so (too late)... I think my math is correct... Tech, correct me if I'm wrong... :?

I hope that helps you in coordinating your mibbits chats with him. I'm sure that he would be happy to talk with you...


Regards,
JTK
Clonkex
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Posted: 31st Aug 2011 06:26
Quote: "if "Australia" is truly your home"


It is.

I don't know where TechLord is, but he said on Mibbit (I managed to catch him there) that he was GMT+5. I am GMT+10, but for some reason it was about 4:00PM there and about 8:00AM here.

Clonkex

Clonkex
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Posted: 1st Sep 2011 00:35
Sorry, TechLord, I'll have to wait till the 10th before I can start helping you. My internet is so slow that Mibbit won't load and Tortoise is taking forever.

It's only about a week till then.

Clonkex

TechLord
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Posted: 1st Sep 2011 02:19 Edited at: 1st Sep 2011 02:37
Sorry to hear that Clonkex. What are your download bandwidth limits? There's a lot code and media assets lingering in the SVN from the previous iteration of the project. These can be removed to streamline SVN. The framework source code is relatively small, however, core libraries such as OGRE are fairly large.

Clonkex
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Posted: 1st Sep 2011 03:09
Quote: "What are you download limits so I can take SVN size and bandwidth in consideration."


My download limit is 8gb per month, but most of that Dad uses for music and YouTube downloads. My bandwidth is an average of about 45kb/s.

Quote: "There's a lot code and media assets lingering in the SVN from the previous iteration of the project. These can be removed to streamline SVN."


That would be really great if you could remove that, thanks.

Quote: "The framework source code is relatively small, however, core libraries such as OGRE are fairly large."


A while ago I experimented with OGRE, so I have the OGRE SDK and source (version 1.7.2, which is the version you are using). Will Tortoise need to overwrite the files or can I put the source in the right directory?

Clonkex

TechLord
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Posted: 1st Sep 2011 08:15
Quote: "A while ago I experimented with OGRE, so I have the OGRE SDK and source (version 1.7.2, which is the version you are using). Will Tortoise need to overwrite the files or can I put the source in the right directory?"


Although, I haven't made any modifications to OGRE 1.7.2 source, the project should have its own copy of OGRE source as a Core Library. This will ensure source integrity if your using OGRE for other projects and simplify version control for S3GP.

Clonkex
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Posted: 1st Sep 2011 08:23
Quote: "the project should have its own copy of OGRE source as a Core Library"


I'm assuming by that you mean I should use a completely separate copy of the OGRE source for S3GP and keep my normal copy for whatever. That's what I was going to do anyway.

Clonkex

Clonkex
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Posted: 1st Sep 2011 08:30
YES! I'm at the library at the moment, and normally you can't install anything on their computers because they need admin permissions, but Tortoise installed perfectly and is downloading at about 250 kilobytes a second!

When it's finished I will copy to a flash key and take it home. This is so cool!

Clonkex

TechLord
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 08:08 Edited at: 4th Sep 2011 19:29
Quote: "YES! I'm at the library at the moment, and normally you can't install anything on their computers because they need admin permissions, but Tortoise installed perfectly and is downloading at about 250 kilobytes a second! "
That's great news. Here's the current score for Refactoring S3GP for Component Object Game Systems (C.O.G.s):
Messaging Component - Done!
Render Component - Done!
Sprite Component - Done!
Script Component - Done!
Network Component - Done!

Work in progress:
XML & File Components - Next!

BTW, from this point forward Super 3D Game Editor + Super 3D Tool-Games = Super 3D Game Tools! Also HPQuest gets a new web theme.

Gibba gobba
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2011 21:50
What's Super 3D Tool?

Hello one and all...
TechLord
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Posted: 4th Sep 2011 19:34
Quote: "What's Super 3D Tool?"

Renamed Super 3D Game Editor, my version of the Non-Coders/Non-Artists Game Designer.

Super 3D Game Tools is a Robust, Consolidated Suite of Visual Editing Tools powered by the S3GE. Developers can build and test in real-time for WYSIWYG results in game. Using S3GE's Network capabilities, S3GEd supports Real-time Collaborative Game Creation with full project management capabilities. A centralized, Open Repository (moderated) provides a secure, user-friendly means for Contributors to get their Game Content into your games. Modular & Procedural Entity Creation to make creating unique game content a snap!

Gibba gobba
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Posted: 4th Sep 2011 21:26 Edited at: 6th Sep 2011 01:08
Ahh, thinking outside the box, I see!

EDIT: Btw, what do you mean when a "component" is done?

Hello one and all...
TechLord
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Posted: 6th Sep 2011 21:04
Quote: "EDIT: Btw, what do you mean when a "component" is done?"
In taking the `component-based` approach (References: 1,2,3,4,5), I have to redesign all of the Engine Systems {Rendering, Scripting, Physics, Audio Systems, etc} into Modules that can be added/removed from System and Game Entities. These Modules communicate to one another with a Message System.

TechLord
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Posted: 7th Sep 2011 12:27 Edited at: 8th Jan 2012 04:14
Learning more everyday about official software engineering. As much as I appreciate diagrams and illustrations, I'm just now realizing the benefit of Unified Model Language (UML). Here's my very first UML Interaction Diagram which highlights the S3GXL processing sequence.



Clonkex
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Posted: 12th Sep 2011 00:21
Unfortunately, while I did manage to download the entire thing at the library, it was taking hours to copy onto the flash drive, and my brother was impatient, so I had to cancel it and just delete it. But no problem, next time I go to the library (probably on Thursday) I will make sure I start it as soon as I get there and make sure I have enough time to finish it.

This is looking really good so far! I looked at the code and I hadn't realised you'd put so much work into it already. You've actually done quite a lot of work.

Clonkex

Matty H
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Posted: 12th Sep 2011 00:52
Quote: " I'm just now realizing the benefit of Unified Model Language (UML)"


I knew you would come around

That's a good diagram, makes it clear how objects will interact, who has what responsibilities and the main point of flow diagrams which is the order in which things should happen, great work.

Brendy boy
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Posted: 12th Sep 2011 02:22
Quote: "I will make sure I start it as soon as I get there and make sure I have enough time to finish it"

you should compress it into the rar file and then copy to the flash drive, it will go much faster

TechLord
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Posted: 13th Sep 2011 11:26 Edited at: 13th Sep 2011 20:10
Quote: "Unfortunately, while I did manage to download the entire thing at the library, it was taking hours to copy onto the flash drive, and my brother was impatient, so I had to cancel it and just delete it. But no problem, next time I go to the library (probably on Thursday) I will make sure I start it as soon as I get there and make sure I have enough time to finish it.

This is looking really good so far! I looked at the code and I hadn't realised you'd put so much work into it already. You've actually done quite a lot of work.

Clonkex"
I'm truly sorry that downloading SVN is causing so much grief However, its the easiest way to keep track of all of the changes, once its up and running.

Yes, I've put a significant amount work into the project. I had networking, scripting, xml loading, 2D Physics, Sprite-based GUI working at some point. However, migrating from DGDK to OGRE and refactoring for Components has essentially rebooted the project from the start and requires additional work to add sound and physics.

Once these systems are in place, I don't want to do anymore refactoring. Trust me. I cannot wait to start coding some `Game Mechanics`.

Clonkex
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Posted: 15th Sep 2011 08:14
Quote: "you should compress it into the rar file and then copy to the flash drive, it will go much faster"


Ah, but the compressing itself would have taken far too long to complete and then I would still have had to copy the rar over.

Quote: "I'm truly sorry that downloading SVN is causing so much grief"


No, don't worry about it. It's just fiddly, that's all.

Good news! I'm at the library again and this time I started downloading immediately on arrival, and I am downloading straight to the flash key, so I won't have to copy it over when it's finished downloading. I will also have plenty of time to finish downloading it.

It's done 51MB in about 5 minutes so far so it won't be much longer.

Clonkex

Gibba gobba
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Posted: 17th Sep 2011 02:21
What's the SVN?

Hello one and all...

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